Better monk?

[WarKitty]

So one of my co-players wants to play a... monk. Which, I think, is going to mess with things horribly. The idea she wants I think is a former thief turned from her thieving ways (hence her rejection of rogue as too trickery-based for her liking). Any better suggestions for her? All sources allowed.

[Sc00by]

Unarmed varient Swordsage? I think that's what's normally the 1st thing suggested in these circumstances...

[IonDragon]

Homebrew? There's a ton of 'monk fixes'itP. Otherwise... uh... is it Gestalt? That's the best way to get good mileage out of Monk. Druid x//Monk2, something better x, possibly Cleric.

Otherwise Unarmed Swordsage.

[WarKitty]

Unarmed varient Swordsage? I think that's what's normally the 1st thing suggested in these circumstances...

Will look at it. I don't think weapons are an issue if I understand her character concept, actually she'd probably prefer to be swinging a sword than her fists.

[Prodan]

The Cherokee would let their children burn themselves on camp fires in order for the children to learn firsthand the danger of fire.

[IonDragon]

Will look at it. I don't think weapons are an issue if I understand her character concept, actually she'd probably prefer to be swinging a sword than her fists.

In that case, Cleric all the way. Or just re-fluff something. Anything.

[WarKitty]

In that case, Cleric all the way. Or just re-fluff something. Anything.

Oh that's her other limitation. Not at all a magic-user. Just no.

[jiriku]

The homebrew monk in my sig?

[Panigg]

You could always just buff them.

One thing I like to do with my monks is the following:

Flurry of Blows:

Allows the monk to add an additional attack to.
If he uses flurry of blows as a standard action, he gets an extra attack and -2 on both attacks.
If he uses flurry of blows as a full round action, he gets an extra attack and no penalties.

At Level 5th its -0 on standard and +2 on full at level 9 its +2 on standard and +4 on full and on level 11 its two attacks, which add +5, so basically full base attack.

Or just use the one from the sig above. Waaaaaaay better, same principle tho.

[Snake-Aes]

She wants a rogue that isn't stealing. She just has to play a rogue that doesn't steal.

Otherwise a swordsage will do. Or warblade. Or crusader. Or fighter. Or Ninja. Or Knight. Or Marshal.

Or any freaking thing.
All we know is what she isn't. What is she?

[Prplcheez]

She wants a rogue that isn't stealing. She just has to play a rogue that doesn't steal.

This. It's really easy to build a rogue around pumping out damage, as opposed to building a stealthy thief that serves no real purpose in combat.

[WarKitty]

She wants a rogue that isn't stealing. She just has to play a rogue that doesn't steal.

Otherwise a swordsage will do. Or warblade. Or crusader. Or fighter. Or Ninja. Or Knight. Or Marshal.

Or any freaking thing.
All we know is what she isn't. What is she?

Personally I think she's a rogue. But she doesn't like that.

What she is is a now good aligned drow (none of that, the drow in our world are all good aligned...has to do with our previous incarnations breaking part of the foundations of reality...). Very strong sense of honor, more of a melee fighter but also a skillmonkey. Specializes in a light-and-quick fighting style.

[Caphi]

Personally I think she's a rogue. But she doesn't like that.

What she is is a now good aligned drow (none of that, the drow in our world are all good aligned...has to do with our previous incarnations breaking part of the foundations of reality...). Very strong sense of honor, more of a melee fighter but also a skillmonkey. Specializes in a light-and-quick fighting style.

Light, fast melee unit with skills? Sounds like a rogue to me! If she absolutely refuses, and high power isn't a concern, see if you can get Scout (CAdv) to pass instead. It does the same noncombat job and is more about mobility than tactics, but Sneak Attack is generally much better than Skirmish.

[Keld Denar]

Personally I think she's a rogue. But she doesn't like that.

Swordsage?

What she is is a now good aligned drow (none of that, the drow in our world are all good aligned...has to do with our previous incarnations breaking part of the foundations of reality...).

Swordsage?

Very strong sense of honor,

Swordsage?

more of a melee fighter

Swordsage?

but also a skillmonkey.

Swordsage?

Specializes in a light-and-quick fighting style.

Swordsage?

[WarKitty]

Recommended she look at swordsage, will see what she says.

[Keld Denar]

Desert Wind has a lot of really good mobility maneuvers, along with some decent, albeit [Fire] based damage boosts. Tiger Claw also has some mobility with Sudden Leap and Pouncing Charge. Diamond Mind has Bounding Assault, and almost all strikes, being standard actions, work with a move in + hit, or hit + move out role.

[Da Beast]

Rogue/swashbuckler with daring outlaw might work. It has a bit of rogue but no ones going to force her to go around stealing stuff.

[Tar Palantir]

+1 for swordsage. It's just what the doctor ordered (or the player, as the case may be).

[IonDragon]

Rogue/swashbuckler with daring outlaw might work. It has a bit of rogue but no ones going to force her to go around stealing stuff.

Yeah, but if she's all "NO,NO,NO,NO,NO ROUGE. NUH-UH." then we've got to think of something else. I'd second Scout or possibly Ranger. Homebrew trading out ranger casting for a bonus feat whenever she'd get a new spell level, and take Swift Hunter feat from CAdv or CScound (never can remember).

EDIT: If she's a new player, I'd shy away from Swordsage a little. It's a great fit and fun to play, but she doesn't want to be a caster, and she seems newbie-ish.

[Snake-Aes]

Pray she doesn't see the Shadow Hand discipline.

[gallagher]

Recommended she look at swordsage, will see what she says.

if she doesnt like ToB, i would suggest she look into scout.

if she wants someone who does extra damage without having to move 10 feet, i would actually suggest spellthief, even though she doesnt want to be a magic user. she could always steal other people's spells and blow them up in their face. most people i know that dont like being a mage is because they dont want to have to pick spells and then be stuck with them (whether its for a day like a wizard or until they can retrain their spells like a sorc)

[WarKitty]

Yeah, but if she's all "NO,NO,NO,NO,NO ROUGE. NUH-UH." then we've got to think of something else. I'd second Scout or possibly Ranger. Homebrew trading out ranger casting for a bonus feat whenever she'd get a new spell level, and take Swift Hunter feat from CAdv or CScound (never can remember).

EDIT: If she's a new player, I'd shy away from Swordsage a little. It's a great fit and fun to play, but she doesn't want to be a caster, and she seems newbie-ish.

Not sure about newbie-ish as much as very very strong RP-over-power in a fairly optimized group.

[Snake-Aes]

Then remind her that just because the class says "Rogue", doesn't mean she should be "Thief".

[Fax Celestis]

Failing swordsage, you could try my monk.

[Eldariel]

Then remind her that just because the class says "Rogue", doesn't mean she should be "Thief".

Aye; Rogue covers a wide variety of archetypes. The widest out of the PHB-classes, perhaps. Basically every mundane skilled character (that isn't a Ranger) is a Rogue. Warrior, thief, guard, you name it, Rogue does it. There's more to the name than that.

[Mongoose87]

Here's an odd idea: Convince your DM that Ascetic Rogue does let Monk and Rogue stack for Sneak Attack. Then, have here go rogue 1/Monk x. Not great, but slightly better than a crappy Monk.

[FMArthur]

Factotum can work too, using Knowledge Devotion, Iaijutsu Focus, or just plain using the Font of Inspiration feat over and over until she has Int to everything forever, or a heap of extra standard actions. It can be magical if she likes but Factotum is also just good enough at melee to slip by without using magic (and is the best at skills).

[fryplink]

Factotum (already said, but it deserves a look)

Wildshape ranger? or standard ranger is wildshape is too much magic.
No one needs more wildshapers

Unarmed swordsage has already been said too

Barbarian, refluffed slightly, someone who doesn't wear heavy armor, who gets angry about theives but has no formal education... its perfect, just take feats that mitigate the lost power from rogue attributes, unless you just stat for barbarian and run with it

[Watchers]

I, for once, would suggest Daring Outlaw, as mentioned above.

[WarKitty]

Factotum (already said, but it deserves a look)

Wildshape ranger? or standard ranger is wildshape is too much magic.

Unarmed swordsage has already been said too

Barbarian, refluffed slightly, someone who doesn't wear heavy armor, who gets angry about theives but has no formal education... its perfect, just take feats that mitigate the lost power from rogue attributes, unless you just stat for barbarian and run with it

Hey! Wildshaping is MY job around here! My little anthro bat self is the only one that's allowed to turn into bears!