Help fighting low level demons

[aeauseth]

Our party is lvl6 (almost 7) and we just found out the rest of the campaign is mostly demons.

There is a warlock/cleric/eldritch disciple, demons have Spell Resistance.
We also have a Vow Of Poverty Druid, demons have DR/good.
The paladin, rogue & psionic players should be fine.

A later levels the warlock/cleric/ed gets assay spell resistance and/or Vitriolic Blast. But at level 6 is at a significant disadvantage. The Gloves of eldritch admixture turned out to be ineffective (demons have acid/cold/fire DR).

The VOP druid is pretty much out of luck until level 10, at which point she get DR/good which also makes her animal form claws good, which bypass the demons DR/good.

Any suggestions for the level 6 warlock/cleric/ed to be more effective? Any magic items or spells that work well against demons?

Any suggestions for the VOP Druid?

EDIT: At level 10 druid gets Exalted strike +2 (good) from the Vow Of Poverty Feat, NOT DR/GOOD.

[jiriku]

The chilling tentacles invocation is pretty effective at locking down opponents even if it doesn't deal any damage. Worth considering.

[tyckspoon]

Druid could take Sanctify Natural Weapon; unfortunately its requirement BAB+5, so he won't have an available feat to take it until the VoP bonus feat at level 8. See if your DM is willing to waive that and let him retrain one of his level 6 feats for it (although I'd just council him to stick to spellcasting for the time being, as Wildshape combat doesn't really take off until you can do Large forms anyway.)

[olentu]

The VOP druid is pretty much out of luck until level 10, at which point she get DR/good which also makes her animal form claws good, which bypass the demons DR/good.

First off er what. I thought it was DR/magic that scaled into DR/evil. I know it does not really matter since I am rather sure that the good alignedness comes from the one ability that gives the enhancement bonus and so forth but still.


Now more on topic if spells can be cast and you have the spell compendium align fang will probably help the DR problem. I suppose it did come from another source (minatures handbook perhaps) and it could probably be grabbed from there as well although it will not be the proper version.

[Fax Celestis]

Align fang and (greater/superior) magic fang are the druid's friends. As for the warlock, try UMD for no-SR attacks or buffs.

[aeauseth]

Align Fang (Druid2, SPC) is looking very promissing, thanks!

[aeauseth]

First off er what. I thought it was DR/magic that scaled into DR/evil..

The SRD shows DR 10/cold iron or good as a special quality for all Demon's.

[aeauseth]

The chilling tentacles invocation is pretty effective at locking down opponents even if it doesn't deal any damage. Worth considering.

I agree however... I was looking for dealing damage with a level 6-7 multiclassed warlock. Chilling tentacles does minimal cold damage which demons have resistance to. Net effect is no damage (as you stated). It also requires an 11 level Warlock to use greater invocations.

[PId6]

Druid should be fine; even if he can't melee (unlikely with spells), he can still stand back and cast battlefield control spells and buffs, or even blasting spells (demons do not have resistance to electricity; Call Lightning is your friend).

The warlock... will have a bit more trouble. Depends on his build though, and what his cleric to warlock ratio is. If he's mostly cleric, as he should be, he can also stick back and buff or heal via Healing Blast. Alternatively, have him take the Supernatural Transformation feat (Savage Species) on his Eldritch Blast, turning it into a supernatural ability and thus allowing it to ignore SR.

[olentu]

The SRD shows DR 10/cold iron or good as a special quality for all Demon's.

The VOP druid is pretty much out of luck until level 10, at which point she get DR/good which also makes her animal form claws good, which bypass the demons DR/good.

I assume the DR is coming from the vow and not something else.

[aeauseth]

As for the warlock, try UMD for no-SR attacks or buffs.

Not a bad idea... It just seems wrong to use a wand as a primary attack for the next 5+ levels.

The "Lesser Orb of Sound" put into a wand would cost me 750gp. Stepping up to 5d6 (level 9 caster) would cost 6,750 for 50 charges.

The eternal wand might solve any issues with UMD. I saw a posting suggesting 750gp + 90gp x 1 x 9 = 1560gp for 2 charges/day 5d6. Get 4 of these eternal wands for same price as above for 8 charges/day with no UMD requirement.

So far the best warlock solution I've seen, although I'm not thrilled with it because it doesn't feel very warlocky.

[aeauseth]

demons do not have resistance to electricity; Call Lightning is your friend.

I hate to be picky but Demons are immune to electricity per the SRD.

Alternatively, have him take the Supernatural Transformation feat (Savage Species) on his Eldritch Blast, turning it into a supernatural ability and thus allowing it to ignore SR

I'm being picky again... Supernatural Transformation Feat is only for racial abilities, not class abilities. See the FAQ.

[aeauseth]

I assume the DR is coming from the vow and not something else.

Yes. At level 10 she gets Exalted strike +2 (good) from the Vow Of Poverty Feat. Which should overcome most demon's DR.

[Fax Celestis]

Yes. At level 10 she gets Exalted strike +2 (good) from the Vow Of Poverty Feat. Which should overcome most demon's DR.

A creature's unarmed strikes and natural attacks also overcome DR as any DR they themselves possess.

[PId6]

I hate to be picky but Demons are immune to electricity per the SRD.

Blech. Based it off of your list of resistances in the OP; should have looked it up first. Just use melee buffs or battlefield control then.

I'm being picky again... Supernatural Transformation Feat is only for racial abilities, not class abilities. See the FAQ.

It requires "innate" spell-like abilities. Warlock abilities are considered an "innate magical gift" (CArc, 5). FAQ isn't RAW.

[olentu]

Yes. At level 10 she gets Exalted strike +2 (good) from the Vow Of Poverty Feat. Which should overcome most demon's DR.

I am saying that vow of poverty does not give DR/good as said here "at which point she get DR/good" but instead gives DR/magic that eventually becomes DR/evil while never at any point becoming DR/good.

[tyckspoon]

I am saying that vow of poverty does not give DR/good as said here "at which point she get DR/good" but instead gives DR/magic that eventually becomes DR/evil while never at any point becoming DR/good.

OP referenced the wrong ability. He is still materially correct that Vow of Poverty will allow the Druid to beat DR/Good at level 10.

[olentu]

Blech. Based it off of your list of resistances in the OP; should have looked it up first. Just use melee buffs or battlefield control then.


It requires "innate" spell-like abilities. Warlock abilities are considered an "innate magical gift" (CArc, 5). FAQ isn't RAW.

Er having an innate magical gift does not mean that the spell like abilities granted by the class are also innate.

OP referenced the wrong ability. He is still materially correct that Vow of Poverty will allow the Druid to beat DR/Good at level 10.

I understand that which is why I already said "I know it does not really matter since I am rather sure that the good alignedness comes from the one ability that gives the enhancement bonus and so forth but still." But since it seems that no one was understanding what I was saying I chose to explain without repeating that part.

[KillianHawkeye]

A creature's unarmed strikes and natural attacks also overcome DR as any DR they themselves possess.

This is not true in the case of material-based, damage-based, or alignment-based DR. Golems with DR/adamantine do not strike as an adamantine weapon. Skeletons with DR/bludgeoning do not strike as a bludgeoning weapon. Demons with DR/Good do not strike as a Good weapon (they actually strike as Evil and Chaos).

Only creatures with DR/magic or DR/epic count their natural attacks as magical or epic. Creatures with an alignment subtype count their attacks as whatever the subtype is (which is usually the opposite of what their DR is defeated by).

[Optimystik]

What is the psionic player running?

It requires "innate" spell-like abilities. Warlock abilities are considered an "innate magical gift" (CArc, 5). FAQ isn't RAW.

Unfortunately, neither is fluff. It depends on his DM.

[thompur]

I have played Warlocks in a couple of campaigns focused on fighting evil outsiders. The key to fighting Demons is getting through SR consistantly. If you have the feat Arcane Mastery, you can take 10 on caster level checks, which include checks to overcome SR. If you also take Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration, then a 6th level Warlock can overcome SR20. Most Demons of level appropriate challenge will have SR of 14-16, so even without the Spell Penetration feats, you should be O.K. And since EB is untyped damage, Energy Resistance shouldn't be a problem either.

[Yorrin]

Once the Warlock hits lvl 11 he can pick up Vitriolic Blast, which ignores SR. Until then he's just going to have to keep his CL high and hope for the best.

[aeauseth]

If you have the feat Arcane Mastery, you can take 10 on caster level checks, which include checks to overcome SR. If you also take Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration, then a 6th level Warlock can overcome SR20. Most Demons of level appropriate challenge will have SR of 14-16, so even without the Spell Penetration feats, you should be O.K. either.

A bit feat heavy, but definatly a solution. I'm going to run "Supernatural Transformation" by the DM as an easy cheesy out. So far I like your suggestion the best.

[aeauseth]

What is the psionic player running?

I don't really know. I'm not familier with psionics. She is small in stature, and can shapechange into a small cat (which she spends all her time in). Her powers are mostly fire based (pyro?) and with one of the powers we hear a bell go off along with the fire effect. Besides fire damage spells she's cast the equilvalent of protection from elements.