[3.5] Monk 1 / Wizard X build

[nulio]

Hi all!

I've been reading the forums to get ideas for a build. I'm new to D&D though and forget most of the names

I'm set in a character with the monk theme but who's a caster.
First level Monk, rest in Wizard.

I've got good scores :) 17, 17, 13, 13, 13, 12
Going for middle age and some race with +2 int or just human.

So I've got some questions:

1- Do you think is viable, 1Monk/XWizard? Or should I go for something like enlightened fist?
2- Which race should I choose? Human, Deep Imaskari, Fire Elf, other?
3- After Int, the second 17 should go for dex or con?
4- Which feats would you choose? Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk? And for the rest?

Thanks

[Flickerdart]

Cleric or Druid sync up much better with Monk. Ascetic Mage (CAdv) means that Sorcerer/Monks are "good" too. Full Cleric levels and just buying a Monk's Belt will do you fine, too - really, you don't need to have Monk levels to call yourself a Monk.

[Prodan]

What if your monk could Use Magic Device?

[Soranar]

Favorite race for Int based build is usually gray elf (for me)

+2 Dex and Int, -2 Con

take the necropolitan template (d12 health, no con score)

kung-fu genius or carmendine monk makes your monk skills INT based (bonus to AC)

Something like Monk 1/Wizard X is fine but if you go for a gish then include abjurant champion

Something like this : Monk 1/ Wizard 1/ Swashbuckler 3/Abjurant Champion 5/ Eldritch knight 10 would work fairly well

[Dusk Eclipse]

What if your monk could Use Magic Device?

Thou should not invoke the dark one [weird voice]

[Lycanthromancer]

What if your monk could Use Magic Device?

Please, don't start that up again.

We don't want to call You Know Who down on us.

[PId6]

It's workable. Keep in mind that you'll ultimately lose more than you gain from the monk dip, but it's not going to make the character unplayable. Carmendine Monk is probably preferable to Kung Fu Geniums, simply because it's not from Dragon and thus is more likely to be approved.

If you want an unarmed fighting spellcaster, try this build:

Monk 1/Wizard 4/Enlightened Fist 10/Abjurant Champion 5

You'll need Practiced Spellcaster, Combat Casting, Stunning Fist (1st level bonus feat), and proficiency with some kind of martial weapon. You can get the latter for free as either some kind of elf or an outsider (Neraphim).

[Southern Cross]

If you take levels in enlightened fist,you lose a caster level at the 1st and 6th levels of this PRc. Considering the special abilities you gain (such as ki strike (magic), improved monk abilities at first level,plus the various fist abilities,arcane rejuvenation, and diamond soul you gain at higher levels,you might find taking this PRC worthwhile.

[Optimystik]

Cleric or Druid sync up much better with Monk. Ascetic Mage (CAdv) means that Sorcerer/Monks are "good" too.

Nah, I'd rather have high Int than high Wis or Cha. Kung-Fu Genius will make his Wiz/Monk work very well.

Please, don't start that up again.

We don't want to call You Know Who down on us.

Voldemort?

It's workable. Keep in mind that you'll ultimately lose more than you gain from the monk dip, but it's not going to make the character unplayable. Carmendine Monk is probably preferable to Kung Fu Geniums, simply because it's not from Dragon and thus is more likely to be approved.

Though it is indeed a dragon magazine feat, it's also in Dragon Compendium, which is actually a WotC-stamped sourcebook.

Carmendine is definitely Faerun-specific.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Quick question: why do you need the level of Monk? If you're going to just wizard it up, laugh away at the concept of AC and just use miss chances.

If you want to make a Monk-Gish, skip the level of Monk, grab Kung-Fu Genius and a Monk's Belt, go Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5 and just use Greater Luminous Armor and Shield for AC on top of your Int score.

If you actually want to be a Monk class Monk-Gish, go Monk 1/Wizard X/Abjurant Champion 5/Enlightened Fist (as few levels so you don't lose moar casting)/Dragonslayer 1/Spellsword 1/Moar Enlightend Fist, maybe? In this case, I'd take Carmendine Monk over Kung-Fu Genius.

EDIT: Actually just use PId6's suggestion instead of my third build.

As for race, I'd go either Arctic Fire Elf, Dragonborn Fire Elf, or whatever the one subrace from Frostburn is that trades +2 Dex for -2 Cha Elf.

[PId6]

Though it is indeed a dragon magazine feat, it's also in Dragon Compendium, which is actually a WotC-stamped sourcebook.

Carmendine is definitely Faerun-specific.

I usually find more DMs allow refluffing than Dragon, Compendium or no, but that's just my experience.

[Andion Isurand]

Keen Intellect is my favorite first-level-only feat for any Int based character.

You should also use the Wizard varient where you take feats from the fighter feat list in place of Scribe Scroll and the other bonus feats for the class. Using that varient I enjoy taking Martial Study (ToB) instead of Scribe Scroll for a desert wind manuver and Tumble as a constant class skill.

Unless you are going undead or the DM says no... go for the Arctic Template in Dragon 306 for +2 con and -2 cha. ....Heh... Arctic Fire Elf...

[ericgrau]

Hmm, it's viable. Some of the best wizard spells are touch range spells, and these aren't discharged before you hit. You could cast one before combat and deal damage on top of the spell, on top of a stunning fist. 2 saves + damage doesn't suck. In the case of chill touch you get a touch per caster level so you could flurry of blows them for a devastating number of d6's and strength damage. For other spells you could wield a magic monk weapon for more damage and only make unarmed attacks until you hit and discharge the spell. At the same time you can buff yourself with mage armor, greater magic weapon, haste, etc. Crafting your own equipment, such as wondrous items, will help a lot too. Don't forget to grab empower spell and/or maximize spell to boost the damage and heighten spell to boost the save DCs. Weapon finesse will help reduce MAD. TWF could give you an extra flurry attack if you like chill touch a lot but your attack bonus will suffer, so be sure to pump it up.

Here's a list of good core touch spells I found and their spell level:
1 chill touch (damage and strength damage)
1 shocking grasp (damage)
2 ghoul touch (save or screwed)
2 touch of idiocy (screw over casters, no save!, empower and/or mazimize it for lolz)
3 vampiric touch (damage and you heal too)
4 bestow curse (save or screwed)
8 irresistable dance (no save!)
9 imprisonment (no rez)

Whatever direction you go if you have a good roleplaying concept I'd say go for it. 1 lost level is far from the end of the world, and IMO roleplaying trumps all.

[Lhurgyof]

Indeed, and the feat "Ring the Golden Bell" Lets you use your Unarmed Strike at ranged, so you can stun, spell, and punch from ranged. :)
Oh, and Lightning Fists gives you two extra attacks in a round, but I think it has a monk x level requirement.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Indeed, and the feat "Ring the Golden Bell" Lets you use your Unarmed Strike at ranged, so you can stun, spell, and punch from ranged. :)
Oh, and Lightning Fists gives you two extra attacks in a round, but I think it has a monk x level requirement.

Ring the Golden Bell also comes in the form of the handy-dandy first level spell "Blood Wind."

[Zaq]

A good buddy of mine once played a character who called himself an exotic monk. He dressed like a monk, lived like a monk, acted like a monk, and believed in character that he was a monk. He just happened to channel his ki externally rather than internally. You know, over-the-top hadokens and stuff, though he had a few internal abilities too.

Naturally, he was a straight-class Sorcerer. Worked perfectly.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, you'll probably want Enlightened Fist if you've gone this far already. You'll probably also want Arcane Disciple [CDiv] in some Domain with Divine Power; your BAB is going to suck major donkey balls even with Fractional BAB, let alone without.

Now, the big issue with your race choice is that the Common Race with Int-bonus also has Con-penalty; you'd have to place the 17 in your Con to retain a reasonable Constitution and yet you'd want to use the 17 on your Dexterity to actually hit a brick wall (with Weapon Finesse) and for AC, Initiative and all that. As such, it may be prudent to just go with a Con-boost race or the ever-solid Human (or Strongheart Halfling [PGtF]; given it has Dex-boost, it's probably better in the end).

And yes, given all but one of your stats are uneven, you definitely want to be Middle-Aged to even it out. It makes a world of sense for a Monk/Wizard anyways. Middle-Aged Gray Elf with 10 (13) Str/14 (13) Dex/14 (17) Con/20 (17) Int/14 (13) Wis/13 (12) Cha could work out, but something like a Dwarf or a Gnome would get you more reasonable Dex. And Lesser Tiefling [PGtF] would get you by with a bit less Con, though it's probably a bit hard to get allowed (some people find it a tad overpowered).


Basically though:

• 17 Dex if you can get +2 Con from the race (or are adventurous with 12 Con; False Life and company should help)
• 17 Con if using a Con-penalty race or similar. Do note that Dragonborn of Bahamut [RotD] is a template that can be applied to any race, has awesome flavor and gives you -2 Dex, +2 Con. It could be used to turn something like Gray Elf/Fire Elf into +Int, -Str/Cha race.

Few feats that could be of interest to you:
- Kung-Fu Genius [DR319]/Carmendine Monk [CV]: Derive your Monk-abilities off Int. Carmendine Monk is a bit better (it contains the ability to surpass your Monk-level once per day as a bonus for wasting a feat on this). You'll want one of these anyways.
- Arcane Disciple [CDiv]: War/Competition [SC]/Orc [SC]/Pride [SC]: Every one of these contains Divine Power. With your Wis of 14, you're entitled to learning the spell and kick ass/chew bubblegum at your convenience. Quicken it at the start of a fight and profit. It'd also raise your Strength but going Dex-focus is probably preferable.
- Weapon Finesse/Shadow Blade [ToB]: Weapon Finesse derives your To Hit off Dex and Shadow Blade gives you Dex to damage. It requires a Shadow Hand stance though so you may have to use feats on Martial Study and Stance to learn one. The spell "Heroics" [SC] is a Wizard 2 spell that allows learning Fighter bonus feats so it could be used to help out a tad here.
- Arcane Strike [CWar]: Channel spells to your melee attacks. Wizard Gish staple.
- Knowledge Devotion [CChamp]: Max Knowledges, gain bonuses to hit and damage. Only problem is, it doesn't stack with all your buffs, but c'est la vie.
- Smiting Spell [PHBII]: Allows you to prepare spells so you can channel 'em through your attacks. Combined with holding charge, stunning fist and Hold Ray, you can deliver quite the whammy with one strike.
- Extend Spell: Yeah, it's good with your buffs.
- Quicken Spell: Because you don't wanna spend your time casting buffs in combat; you wanna hit things.


Then just use buff-spells like:
- Greater Mighty Wallop [RoTD]: Treat your attacks as bigger. A lot bigger. You can reach Colossal dice this way and it lasts Hours/level.
- Greater Magic Weapon [PHB]: Your weapons specifically qualify.
- Heroism [PHB]: Lasts 10 Min/Level; Extend it a few times and it's all day.
- Heart of the X [CM]: Each gives you some individual immunity and ability to discharge the spell to gain some ability for a small period of time, and together they give you immunity to crits and such.
- Greater Invisibility [PHB]: Pretty obvious way to make fights unfair.
- Mirror Image [PHB]: One of the best defensive buffs in the game.
- False Life [PHB]: Never say "No" to bonus HP.
- Bite of the WereX [SC]: A great way to kick butt if not using Polymorphs. Goes fine with 'em too, of course.
- Greater/Superior Resistance [SC]: Yeh, saves are good, mmkay?
- Lesser Celerity [PHBII]: Unlike its brothers, it's a rather fair spell and a good way to spring surprise AoOs on enemy or dodge attacks or some such.
- Polymorph [PHB]: Too good, but if you need power, here you have it.
- Alter Self [PHB]: Again, a tad too good; great source of Natural Armor (out of Core, Trogdolyte has 6 NA and Crucian [MinHB] comes with 8; Ravid [MM] has 15 if you're an Outsider), flight and stuff like that.
- Wraithstrike [SC]: Make your attacks as Touch Attack. Makes for profittable Power Attack, easy hits and stuff. A bit too good tho.


There's more, of course, but that's off the top of my head.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Overall, props on the extent of the advice, but one minor thing, Eldariel: how on earth does Knowledge Devotion not stack with your buff spells?! The bonus gained to-hit and damage by it is Insight, which is generally hard to come by outside of Incarnum.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Monk 1/ Wizard 4/ Enlightened Fist 5/ Master of the East Wind 10, you'll get +12 BAB, 18th level spellcasting, and 16th level Monk unarmed strike, speed, and AC. Carmendine Monk is highly recommended. You can get a Monk's Tattoo from Magic of Faerun to get 20th level monk abilities, including speed, otherwise take Superior Unarmed Strike to get 20th level unarmed strike damage and probably also Improved Natural Attack. Don't forget you can cast Greater Mighty Wallop and Greater Magic Weapon on your fist(s). You can apply your own bonuses in the most beneficial order, so Greater Mighty Wallop will make it count as Colossal and Improved Natural Attack would make it one size beyond that. You can take Rapid Stunning to cast multiple touch spells during a full attack with Enlightened Fist. Good choices would be Shivering Touch and Vampiric Touch, especially with a Lesser Rod of Maximize.

I'd start middle-age Grey Elf with Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 14, Cha 13 after racial adjustments, and pick up Weapon Finesse. If you can use flaws, take Otherworldly so you can Polymorph into a Kelvezu (MM2). Consider taking Arcane Disciple for the Competition, Pride, or War domain to get Divine Power.

[Eldariel]

Overall, props on the extent of the advice, but one minor thing, Eldariel: how on earth does Knowledge Devotion not stack with your buff spells?! The bonus gained to-hit and damage by it is Insight, which is generally hard to come by outside of Incarnum.

There are few buff-spells which grant Insight-bonus. Though mostly that's the province of Incarnum and Psionics, some Arcane ones exist too. Just pointing it out in there.

[nulio]

Thanks all

I'll read carefully all advices and post something later


Edit: I think I made my mind, now I just have to speak with the DM, Thanks again

[Greenish]

You'll need Practiced Spellcaster, Combat Casting, Stunning Fist (1st level bonus feat), and proficiency with some kind of martial weapon. You can get the latter for free as either some kind of elf or an outsider (Neraphim).

Monks actually get a proficiency with a martial weapon.

[PId6]

Monks actually get a proficiency with a martial weapon.

Riiight, they get weapon proficiencies that nobody ever uses. Forgot about that. Despite not gaining proficiency with fists...