Cleric challenge!

[gallagher]

i know that it is rude to ask for someone to build the guy for me, so i am asking for advice and pointers, any way you wish to give them. i am just glad for the help. so let me try and sell it to you!

the goal: to give a challenge to my group as the BBEG, a level 20 Cleric build that will need to act like a paladin!

He is the controller of 80% of the entire realm as the head of his fanatical theocratic church. he is a holy warrior, dont get me wrong, but he doesnt have the limitations of the paladin. he isnt evil, he is just a very twisted odd form of good.

he distrusts arcane magic, as it is incredibly powerful and can be used in irresponsible ways that can seriously endanger society. it is his mission to eliminate offensive arcane magic (defensive gets a pass, in situations where you would have a wizard on a rope creating items, and if they get too powerful, they get executed). this guy is going to be tough.

he persists buffs on himself every morning, always divine power, and saves righteous might for special occasions (especially times when he wishes to be intimidating on his throne). he is in your face. he demands respect, and commands the fears of all. it makes perfect sense to have inquisition one of his domains. something like war or strength would make sense too. how powerful would he have to be until he can start worshiping himself to give himself spells? would a divine rank 1 be too tough? he will obviously have mooks so it isnt him vs 5 level 20 guys.

all of you who are interested in giving advice for this build, please do! thanks in advance!

[Runestar]

If you have DMG2, the quick and dirty method would be to use the sample cleric npc inside (who is a cleric17/heirophant3). Cleric20 should be strong enough, though I am pretty sure it can be further optimized.

He wouldn't need to worship himself, just let his spells come from the strength of his beliefs and convictions. Alternatively, refluff a solar and you have your guy.

[gallagher]

where can i find prestige paladin? i have heard at some places that 2 levels of that is better than 2 levels of regular paladin

what would be an appropriate domain after inquisition for this character?

the divine rank is fluff, he will be getting it right before the party faces him. it isnt necessary.

what is a good prestige class for this guy?

he is the BBEG, so i dont need to dip a knight for the knights challenge

could i optimally fit in crusader? and how would that Gish work?

[BobVosh]

where can i find prestige paladin? i have heard at some places that 2 levels of that is better than 2 levels of regular paladin what would be an appropriate domain after inquisition for this character?

Str or war seems appropiate. I think the PrC paladin is in UA.

the divine rank is fluff, he will be getting it right before the party faces him. it isnt necessary.

Avoid it or avoid giving him the full stuff from it, like ignoring antimagic fields.

what is a good prestige class for this guy?

Same as any cleric, anything with close to(or better yet) full cleric casting.

he is the BBEG, so i dont need to dip a knight for the knights challenge

could i optimally fit in crusader? and how would that Gish work?

If you take more than 3 crusader levels you lose 9th level spells. Also the martial adept will give you 10th level for manuevers. If you take that and go 2 levels crusader you can count as 11th level. If you want the manuevers that is probably the best way to do it.

Give the guy a decent quicken rod, DMM persist will work well (if it isn't too cheesy for you), and then you can prove how the cleric is a better fighter than a fighter.

[HunterOfJello]

Persist Spell Metamagic and Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell will turn any lvl 20 Cleric easily enough into fight better than any paladin


Make all his other feats be Extra Turning and one feat for a metamagic reducer to Persist

[Ajadea]

o_O If I didn't know better, I'd say you've been reading my campaign threads. Divine spellcasters who hate arcane magic and persecute the wielders of such forces. Fanatical, with some very loose oaths.

Anyways...Persist Spell, DMM:Persist Spell, Persisting Divine Power and Righteous Might, which requires 14 turn attempts, more if you have any divine feats you want to throw on this guy, which I would.

Half-celestial template or something similar gives this BBEG another reason to be stuck up and self-worshipping. Perhaps a divine rank of 0, granting the following abilities.

Spell Resistance 32, Deflection bonus to AC equal to Cha bonus, 60 ft of speed, DR 10/epic, fire resistance 5, and immunity to transmutation not cast by himself, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, and mind-affecting effects.

Not bad, and with all those resistances, a high-Cha dude may not need many minions. Persist those buffs, then use the rest of the turn attempts you have to activate a divine feat or two.

Pump Charisma and Wisdom with items and what-not.

[gallagher]

i like the half celestial template, the flight and all the defensive abilities work well with the divine rank 0. i think i will go with that. he is the BBEG after all.

for shnitz and giggles, i am having one of his followers to be a Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Paladin of Freedom 2/Barbarian 2 (with improved trip, pounce, and whirling frenzy as ACFs)/Knight 3(removing the lawful requirement)/warblade7

then also a sacred fist

[Runestar]

Be careful of inflating his cr too much via templates, he may end up being too fragile for his cr due to having too few HD.

Don't forget persistent divine favour as well. That and this guy is a dispel-magnet. Make sure you have some means of resisting said spell as well, either by boosting your caster lv or ring of counterspells.

[Bakkan]

The Church Inquisitor PrC from Complete Divine seems perfect for this guy. It's got full spellcasting and grants the Inquisition domain as a bonus domain. Additionally, it grants nice goodies like automatically getting saves when you see an illusion (instead of having to interact with it) or disguise, detect evil at will (like the Paladin), immunity to charms, compulsions, and possession, a bonus to Spot vs. Disguises, the ability to change a transformed creature back into its natural form (bad for the T. Transformed Wizard) at will, and two special abilities to force people to tell the truth.

If you have feats to spare, the Mage Slayer line from Complete Arcane would seem to fit the concept you described.

If it were me, I think I would go something like

Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 6/Contemplative 6/Prestige Paladin 2/Ordained Champion 3

Sources: SRD, Complete Divine, Complete Champion

This grants you 18/20 cleric casting as well as a boatload of abilities that are very paladin-esque. In particular, you get

• War, Inquisition, Knowledge, and four other domains
• Detect evil at will
• Immunity to charms, compulsions, all magical and mundane diseases, and poisons
• Bonuses vs. Illusions and Disguises, including the ability to save vs any illusion you see
• A shutdown switch on any shapechanging abilities
• A chance to roll again on any failed save against an enchantment effect
• A total lay on hands amount of 20+5x(Cha mod)
• Smite evil 1/day, and Smite anything by burning a turn undead attempt
• Turn undead as 7th level cleric (use to fuel DMM and smiting)
• Cha mod to saves
• Special mount as a 5th-level paladin
• Up to two bonus fighter feats if you wish to give up some domain granted powers, plus Diehard as a bonus feat
• The ability to spontaneously turn any prepared spell into a War domain spell, the list of which includes Spiritual Weapon, Divine Power, Flame Strike, and Power Word Stun, Blind, and Kill
• The ability to "charge up" your weapons with spells that stay charged for eight hours
• The ability to grant yourself DR/chaotic by sacrificing spell slots.

These abilities are all before feats are selected. Trading some domains for Domain Feats from Complete Champion would likely increase the power level. Naturally, you want to pump your Wis and Cha as high as possible. If possible, you should be a Lesser Aasimar for a +2 bonus to both Wis and Cha, darkvision, Daylight 1/day for over 3 hours, and minor resistances. If you don't mind losing another level of casting (which still gives 17/20 casting), you could be a normal Aasimar, which gives you the Outsider type, which has some benefits. Overall, though, I'd go with the lesser Aasimar.

[gallagher]

The Church Inquisitor PrC from Complete Divine seems perfect for this guy. It's got full spellcasting and grants the Inquisition domain as a bonus domain. Additionally, it grants nice goodies like automatically getting saves when you see an illusion (instead of having to interact with it) or disguise, detect evil at will (like the Paladin), immunity to charms, compulsions, and possession, a bonus to Spot vs. Disguises, the ability to change a transformed creature back into its natural form (bad for the T. Transformed Wizard) at will, and two special abilities to force people to tell the truth.

If you have feats to spare, the Mage Slayer line from Complete Arcane would seem to fit the concept you described.

If it were me, I think I would go something like

Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 6/Contemplative 5/Prestige Paladin 2/Ordained Champion 2/Crusader 2

Sources: SRD, Complete Divine, Complete Champion

This grants you 18/20 cleric casting as well as a boatload of abilities that are very paladin-esque. In particular, you get

• War, Inquisition, Knowledge, and three other domains
• Detect evil at will
• Immunity to charms, compulsions, all magical and mundane diseases, and poisons
• Bonuses vs. Illusions and Disguises, including the ability to save vs any illusion you see
• A shutdown switch on any shapechanging abilities
• A chance to roll again on any failed save against an enchantment effect
• A total lay on hands amount of 20+5x(Cha mod)
• Smite evil 1/day, and Smite anything by burning a turn undead attempt
• Turn undead as 7th level cleric (use to fuel DMM and smiting)
• Cha mod to saves
• Special mount as a 5th-level paladin
• Up to two bonus fighter feats if you wish to give up some domain granted powers, plus Diehard as a bonus feat
• The ability to spontaneously turn any prepared spell into a War domain spell, the list of which includes Spiritual Weapon, Divine Power, Flame Strike, and Power Word Stun, Blind, and Kill
• 5 Maneuvers known and readied, 2 granted at the beginning of each combat
• 2 stances known, either one level 1 stance and one level 6 stance, or one level 5 stance and one level 6 stance (depending on how you interpret "Begin Play" in the stance description.

These abilities are all before feats are selected. I suggest taking your first level of Crusader at 18, so that you can take the Extra Granted Maneuver feat and begin combat with 3 granted maneuvers (and recover your maneuvers faster). Trading some domains for Domain Feats from Complete Champion would likely increase the power level. Naturally, you want to pump your Wis and Cha as high as possible.

how, when i lose 2 caster levels from crusader, and one from prestige paladin, do i get 18/20 casting? and how do i get 3 extra domains?

[2xMachina]

You lose 3, so 17/20

Inquisitor +1 Inquisition
CC + Knowledge
Contemplative +1 domain (IIRC)

Ordained Champion+ War IIRC.
+2 normal

[Gnaritas]

Ordained Champion might be a nice addition.

[Bakkan]

how, when i lose 2 caster levels from crusader, and one from prestige paladin, do i get 18/20 casting? and how do i get 3 extra domains?

I actually messed up, and with the build I posted, you lose four levels of cleric casting, so you only get 16/20, so no 9th level spells. This is no good, so I would drop Crusader and throw in two more levels of Church Inquisitor for Immunity to Possession. Alternatively, one more level of contemplative grants yet another bonus domain, giving you seven domains total, and one more level of Ordained Champion gives you a nice ability to "charge" a melee weapon with a spell. Note with that that you don't have to use the weapon right after charging it, so you could for instance load up on four Greatswords charged with your favorite spell and hit up to four times in a single round, assuming you have Quick Draw. If you use Destruction, for instance, you cause four Fort saves vs instant death and 40d6 damage if the enemy makes all his saves, in addition to whatever effects you melee weapon has. And this is all as a full-round action.

I am going to go back and edit my previous post to use this build.