[3.5] Controlling a Slave

[aivanther]

A game idea in the forums here has made me, and a couple of people as well I imagine, wonder about how one might best control a slave in DnD. Other than keeping family member hostage whom you threaten to kill in very unpleasant ways should they betray you, is there a way to try and control a slave in DnD?

I'm not talking dominate, I mean insure some form of loyalty.

[senrath]

Depending on the society, one way to ensure loyalty is to treat them well. Make it so that staying loyal to you is a much better deal than anyone else would offer them.

[PapaNachos]

Craft contingent spell + fireball. Set it to go off if they ever try to escape.

Edit: Traditionally physical coercion has been the primary means of keeping slaves in line.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Intimidate, strangely enough, is not a good option by RAW, because after you leave the slaves (to go do your not slave-driving things), they'll only remain helpful for a max of an hour before becoming unhelpful.

I mean sure, there's probably ways around it, like RAI, but just saying.

Edit: I suppose you could have somebody stay with the slaves and have THEM intimidate, but it takes a minute per slave and then you technically don't have the power, and then once they go to sleep there's still the problem.

[Grumman]

How about the Necrotic Cyst line of spells from Libris Mortis? It's a level 2 spell to infect them, and another level 2 spell to scry on them with unlimited range.

[Prodan]

Intimidate, strangely enough, is not a good option by RAW, because after you leave the slaves (to go do your not slave-driving things), they'll only remain helpful for a max of an hour before becoming unhelpful.

It wasn't a good option in real life either.

[The Dark Fiddler]

It wasn't a good option in real life either.

Good point. So I guess this is one time when the rules do a fairly good job of modeling reality?

[aivanther]

Depending on the society, one way to ensure loyalty is to treat them well. Make it so that staying loyal to you is a much better deal than anyone else would offer them.

I think this is going to be my tactic (on top of having the only supply of food and water). Knowing the everyone else in the society is a cruel bas****, me just being demanding is better.

See, the problem is that said slaves are going to be armed. Now, they're out of their home territory, and in a very dangerous place, but simply saying "I have a sword, you have a loin cloth" isn't going to cut it. I was wondering if there was some "circlet of obey me or I fry your brain" sort of thing.

[Felyndiira]

Intimidate won't work. The "slaves" in question are other players who sometimes want the benefit of playing a 0 LA class, and the masters have +2 LA, possibly without buy off (hint hint =p).

Geas is one way, although your slaves may cheese themselves by obtaining Dispel Magic somehow through role-play. Ring of the Slave (BoVD) is less assured, and it's also vulnerable to Dispel. My best advice: get your slaves with the players that aren't in it for the freedom from the +2 Drow LA; if you don't, they ALWAYS can screw you over by the time their wizard levels are high enough.

[aivanther]

they ALWAYS can screw you over by the time their wizard levels are high enough.

Hence why I'm not getting a full-caster slave. :p

[Prodan]

See, the problem is that said slaves are going to be armed. Now, they're out of their home territory, and in a very dangerous place, but simply saying "I have a sword, you have a loin cloth" isn't going to cut it. I was wondering if there was some "circlet of obey me or I fry your brain" sort of thing.

I don't know, but with a high enough bluff check, you can convince them that one exists...

[Aroka]

It wasn't a good option in real life either.

Nonsense! It worked wonderfully!

[Felyndiira]

You also need to make sure they don't have some other classes, like Bard. Remember that despite being effectively 3 levels lower, they will also level faster due to being lower-leveled; thus, they'll catch up and your +2 LA will hurt you.

Mark of Justice
The simplest way. Pay a high-ranked Lolth cleric to cast this on your slaves (this will eat into your WBL) and word it so that betraying you inflict a customized version of bestow curse (say, huge penalty to Fortitude so you can slay living them to kingdom come). This is obviously not robust since Bestow Curse is not death, and they'll very likely try to run into a AMF or sneak in a wand of dispel.

(D&D) Drugs
Get your slaves addicted. Make sure they can't break the addiction, and just use Extract Drug to keep them in demand for the substance. Note that this requires some level of agreement on the player's part to actually roleplay, since any player can say "lol, I'll take the withdrawal penalties and escape regardless. Pay no mind that my character should be gagging and craving by now." Alternatively, give Luhix to them, make sure they don't have an astronomical Fort Save, and they're pretty much your puppet for 2k GP per dose.

Fanatic's Collar
It's unfortunate the Lolth doesn't offer the Charm domain. Regardless, though, make them wear the collar and answer to you once, and they're now dominated. It's delightfully evil and seriously expensive, so if you can, sell some liquid agonies to make sure you can afford it.

Master and Slave Rings
Conventional D&D BoVD. 3d6 damage per round as a free action makes people very reluctant to disobey you, although it's easily removed by dispel magic if they're really convinced to do so. Players do not always subscribe to realism, after all.

Just Talk to Them
Honestly, this is the best and most foolproof way. Work out the acceptable boundaries of roleplaying with the person you're working with, and make them promise they won't end up using the whole slave thing to play a 0 LA race and get out of the deal later. Casters are instantly out as slaves (note: this includes bards and paladins of X); don't give them items to enforce the whole dominion feeling, and try to convince them to get a personality that matches so they won't turn back on you later on.

[Greenish]

You could subject your whole free adult population to extensive combat training and refuse to build walls around your city to keep them on their toes. Then you could maybe crush the slave revolt.

Also, a Zhentarim Soldier's Intimidate works for 24 hours after you've left, and grants you a bonus to Intimidate them again.

[Tinydwarfman]

Mindrape will make them love you forever and ever.

[Crafty Cultist]

The slave rings out of the BoVD would be good, but you should tell them that the damaging effect will only be used if they try to escape. it will stop them from fleeing without making you seem to tyranical.

[Ragnarok'n'Roll]

This is pertinent to my interests as well...

by the set up of the game, the bonus for having a slave is like 8k gold. By the time you equip the slave, you have 4k left over to come up with some vague means of keeping them from escaping or killing you.

Though just where they plan to escape to when they are at the very bottom of the underdark, I have no idea. You pretty much need the other player to co-operate and most of the other players have claimed they would try to escape first chance they get.

why risk it? Just play a lone drow I say. Now if two or three drow banded together and collectively owned one slave, that might work. *shrug*

[thompur]

What kind of slaves are we talking about? Ancient Roman style, or Pre-Civil War U.S.? If the slave has a reasonable chance at eventual freedom, and even citizenship, being well treated should work fairly well. It will also depend on the laws and general feelings about slavery in society. If escaped slaves are tracked and returned, then stern punishment for misbehavior and rewards for good behavior should help. I don't know if Diplomacy might help with slaves or not, but I think it should.

[Coidzor]

What is it, a level 9 Zhentarim Soldier ACF'd Fighter can just intimidate 'em once a day and get 24 hour of cooperation.

Otherwise... Diplomancy could work when first acquiring them.

Intimidate won't work. The "slaves" in question are other players who sometimes want the benefit of playing a 0 LA class, and the masters have +2 LA, possibly without buy off (hint hint =p).

Oh, then **** that noise then.

That's a stupid idea. Play Maid instead.

[Greenish]

What is it, a level 9 Zhentarim Soldier ACF'd Fighter can just intimidate 'em once a day and get 24 hour of cooperation.

Level 5 is enough for Extend Intimidation, which is nice since you can grab it and the free Skill Focus: Intimidate from Zhentarim Soldier 3 on your way to Dungeon Crasher.

What kind of slaves are we talking about? Ancient Roman style, or Pre-Civil War U.S.? If the slave has a reasonable chance at eventual freedom, and even citizenship, being well treated should work fairly well.

We're talking about drow. Killing slaves for fun and profit just fun is the M.O. The slaves who gain freedom in death are lucky.

[Coidzor]

We're talking about drow. Killing slaves for fun and profit just fun is the M.O. The slaves who gain freedom in death are lucky.

Exactly. NPC fodder.

[awa]

try and make the rings into collars I had a nezumi with a missing finger because of that poor planing.

[aivanther]

Exactly. NPC fodder.

Except they're PCs. The thing is, I'm not trying to ruin the players game (I'm assuming he's reading this thread actually). I am looking at ways in character to ensure he's VERY dissuaded from leaving. Now, I'm assuming he's willing to work IC about being a subjugated slave, he chose to play a slave, but it's also been mentioned that IC his character would really like to escape (and really, who wouldn't)? Since I don't want to make him into weak-sauce fodder but instead a reliable minion, I can't just send him running around naked.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

Custom magic item "collar of slavery". . . it lets them do their own thing for the most part, they simply cannot escape or disobey a direct order from the "Master" or plot "the master's" death. . . you can even give them a will save that's incredibly hard to succed at before a certain level to demonstrate that they will become to powerful to control at a certain point.

[Reluctance]

Slaves in general, I'd grab some who lacked the HD/class features to have any chance of escaping or threatening me. Commoners are cheap and plentiful.

This specific case, you really don't want the character to be totally subjugated. Where's the fun in being completely powerless and not getting to make any choices? Given the situation, I'd simply ask the player to build a character without any ranks in Survival. Escaping would mean having to survive in the underdark without any survival skills, and very likely most of drow society as well. If the masters are atypically kind for drow (in the metagame sense, the players not being total ***** to their friend), staying in servitude might be preferable to the many horrors the underdark can visit on the unprepared.

[Tyndmyr]

Craft contingent spell + fireball. Set it to go off if they ever try to escape.

Edit: Traditionally physical coercion has been the primary means of keeping slaves in line.

This is probably more expensive than treating them well, or hiring someone. Hireling wages and such are notoriously inexpensive. So is even good quality food and lodgings. They are generally barely a footnote on an adventurer's expenses.

[Coidzor]

Except they're PCs. The thing is, I'm not trying to ruin the players game (I'm assuming he's reading this thread actually). I am looking at ways in character to ensure he's VERY dissuaded from leaving. Now, I'm assuming he's willing to work IC about being a subjugated slave, he chose to play a slave, but it's also been mentioned that IC his character would really like to escape (and really, who wouldn't)? Since I don't want to make him into weak-sauce fodder but instead a reliable minion, I can't just send him running around naked.

See my previous post. The idea is just a bad one. Of course, the way drow are, he's going to get killed off by the other players if they're roleplaying it out this way, so they'll only have to deal with the awkwardness and general unpleasantness of it for awhile.

[Ormur]

I've actually been considering this and I was thinking of some kind of a custom wondrous item collar that dominated the wearer into turning back and confessing to what they did if they tried to escape and/or did something they weren't supposed to.

Would that require both dominate and contingency, what would the cost be?