Zombies Can't Eat Brains!

[taltamir]

It occurred to me that human teeth can NOT penetrate a human skull, ever. (afaik, there isn't an animal on earth that can crack a human skull in their teeth... they can crack some bones and eat the marrow, but not a skull)
If the magic of zombification somehow massively increases their strength, they will simply shatter their teeth and jaws on the skull rather then break it (and they should be strong enough to lift cars).
If the magic of zombification somehow increases their hardness and durability to the point they can, then they should be extremely hard to destroy, nearly impossible to decapitate, and bullets should bounce off of them. (9mm bullets often fail to penetrate a human skull... so if they are even tougher than that...)

So, in conclusion... zombies should eat the flesh of living humans, not their brains... of course... zombies don't make sense in general (dead muscles are useless, dead digestive system can't digest, if magic makes them move, might as well get rid of the useless flesh and just animate the bones as a skeleton... unless the flesh has been magically reinforced to make it more durable... mmm) ok yea, i went off on a tangent there. but basically, brains? not likely. (and zombies should not SPEAK, not even just 1 word)

[Prodan]

Some people did not drink milk as children and consequently have brittle bones.

[arguskos]

Tal, this is what I like to call "missing the target".

Zombies tend to not make sense. Neither do dragons, teleportation, magic swords that drink souls, or glowing balls of light that fly and shoot lasers. Yet, these are all fantasy staples. Just roll with it dude.

EDIT: Prodan wins the thread.

[Thajocoth]

In the real world, zombies don't exist. In fiction, things don't have to make any scientific sense.

In conclusion:

*eats Taltamir's brain*

[ex cathedra]

Wow, it's almost as if you've realized that fictional creatures are naturally impossible, and, you know, fictional.

They only have to use their teeth to eat the brains, though. They can handle the skull through good-ole' bludgeoning. Not all zombies even eat brains. I just... I don't see the point of this.

[Jack_Simth]

Fortunately, the D&D 3.5 Monster Manual entry says nothing about zombies eating brains. Or talking. See For Yourself for the SRD entry. You'll need to pick up a copy of the Monster Manual to read the full fluff, such as there is.

[taltamir]

its really all a matter of consistency...
if zombies could tear through steel, lift cars, and broke swords with their bones... then it would be internally consistent, whatever magic made them undead also granted them strength and durability. but they aren't, they are as flimsy as ever, yet somehow penetrate skulls.

Also, I should have prefaced it with "not DnD"... i mean in general fantasy.

And of-course I realize its fictional... the whole thing is just one big mental wankery... like DnD, comic books, fantasy books, video games, etc...

[Evard]

There is more than one way to de-skull a cat.. err human! Just cause they can't bite into the skull doesn't mean they can't get to the brain :P

[devinkowalczyk]

It seems like there is some kind of animal on the planet that can pop out grape heads. I bet there are some humans who could pop them. Its tough, but not indestructable.


As for the brains, it is just stupid.
Why brains? They are just fatty fatty fatty things

[Lyndworm]

In addition to the zombie-relevant points made by the fine folks above me, there are indeed several animals that can crush a human skull in their jaws.

Alligators, some crocodiles, some sharks, hyenas, toothed whales... Jaguars have the force needed but they can't open their mouths wide enough. Lions and/or tigers might be able to pull it off, too. I'm sure that I've missed some.

[Ravens_cry]

Eh, D&D zombies don't even eat brains. They take more, though not all, from the voodoo mythos of the shaman creating a mindless eternal servant from a dead body.
Zombies in general that feed don't seem to want just the brain. In most films I have seen, which is few admittedly, they just are trying to feed on every part of you, not just the brain.

[ericgrau]

Baseball bats put a hole in your argument. Or there's another big hole that already exists on the bottom of the skull.

[Greenish]

Karrnathi zombies can speak (and thus moan "brainsssss…") and with a longsword they shouldn't have too many troubles with human skull.

All hail Karrnath!

[Jack_Simth]

Also, I should have prefaced it with "not DnD"... i mean in general fantasy.

Ah. Then you're Missing a Link in your argument.

[taltamir]

Alligators, some crocodiles, some sharks, hyenas, toothed whales... Jaguars have the force needed but they can't open their mouths wide enough. Lions and/or tigers might be able to pull it off, too. I'm sure that I've missed some.

I didn't think about alligators and crocodiles...
I was thinking that most animals, hyenas, jaguars, lions, etc... would have problem fitting a human skull in their mouth. and the shape makes it extra hard to break through.

although this is an interesting article:
http://scienceblogs.com/laelaps/2010...shing_hyen.php

In regards to toothed whales and sharks... I didn't take into consideration sea animals, whoops. :P

Ah. Then you're Missing a Link in your argument.

wow, that IS an essential point that I am missing!

Baseball bats put a hole in your argument. Or there's another big hole that already exists on the bottom of the skull.

ah, but in movies the zombies bite through the skull, they do not kill them human, tear off the head, remove the spine, and then eat the brain via the spine hole.

[Greenish]

I didn't think about alligators and crocodiles...
I was thinking that most animals, hyenas, jaguars, lions, etc... would have problem fitting a human skull in their mouth.

Spoiler

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[taltamir]

Spoiler

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that picture is made of win!

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

In addition to the zombie-relevant points made by the fine folks above me, there are indeed several animals that can crush a human skull in their jaws.

Alligators, some crocodiles, some sharks, hyenas, toothed whales... Jaguars have the force needed but they can't open their mouths wide enough. Lions and/or tigers might be able to pull it off, too. I'm sure that I've missed some.

beat me to it, but this is an accuracte statement.

in addition, WHile most of the human skull is in fact very very tough. there are a number of areas on the human skull that are actually Very very fragile. . . the bone at the back of the eye sockets is extreamly thin, Most of the face actually is very breakable. . .

Zombies have the benefit of hands and no muscle fatigue. . . while the classic image of them biting through the top of the head is pretty wrong, they could deffinetly tear their way through the face given a little time.

[Threeshades]

How many zombies do you know that actually eat brains?

I can name one movie that features brain-eating zombies and all other examples are only parodistic comedy zombies. Usually zombies, if anything at all eat human flesh.

The movie i'm talking about is return of the living dead, in which the zombies could also speak, and i dont remember any of them successfully cracking a skull with their teeth.

[Jergmo]

Well, with the Bloodthirsty zombie variant in Libris Mortis, we do get to have zombies that eat people. However...zombies haven't even gone for the brains in a long time, have you noticed? In most of the zombie movies I've seen, they go directly for the neck. They grab them (grapple) and bite their necks. However, a zombie could definitely bash open a skull, though, with their 1d6 slam attacks. It'd just take them several tries, though I agree that it should break the bones in their hands.

However, while you're correct about dead muscle and all that, you've gotta understand that the zombies/skeletons don't work that way. Particularly supporting this is that you have animated skeletons at all. Negative energy powers the undead, and keeps their muscles/bones/whatever running. Undead that eat flesh, such as ghouls, don't digest food. Their digestive systems are changed when they become undead, to convert it into negative energy.

ah, but in movies the zombies bite through the skull, they do not kill them human, tear off the head, remove the spine, and then eat the brain via the spine hole.

Someone hasn't watched Land of the Dead. Seriously, half the time the zombies were pulling off Mortal Kombat finishing moves.

[Siegel]

Well, with the Bloodthirsty zombie variant in Libris Mortis, we do get to have zombies that eat people. However...zombies haven't even gone for the brains in a long time, have you noticed? In most of the zombie movies I've seen, they go directly for the neck. They grab them (grapple) and bite their necks. However, a zombie could definitely bash open a skull, though, with their 1d6 slam attacks. It'd just take them several tries, though I agree that it should break the bones in their hands.

However, while you're correct about dead muscle and all that, you've gotta understand that the zombies/skeletons don't work that way. Particularly supporting this is that you have animated skeletons at all. Negative energy powers the undead, and keeps their muscles/bones/whatever running. Undead that eat flesh, such as ghouls, don't digest food. Their digestive systems are changed when they become undead, to convert it into negative energy.



Someone hasn't watched Land of the Dead. Seriously, half the time the zombies were pulling off Mortal Kombat finishing moves.

From this

Everyone knows that zombies love to eat brains, and most humorous versions will use this trope. The trope seems almost entirely to stem from the 1985 comedy horror film Return Of The Living Dead and is absent from most 'serious' depictions of zombies, insomuch as any zombie film can be called serious.

[Prodan]

The trope seems almost entirely to stem from the 1985 comedy horror film Return Of The Living Dead and is absent from most 'serious' depictions of zombies, insomuch as any zombie film can be called serious.

Mainly because those films were written by people without braaaaiiiiins.

[Starbuck_II]

It occurred to me that human teeth can NOT penetrate a human skull, ever. (afaik, there isn't an animal on earth that can crack a human skull in their teeth... they can crack some bones and eat the marrow, but not a skull)

Did you just say the human skull is harder than steel? Rats can chew through steel. Yes, they can tear through a tank if they desired (they usually use this to get into pipes/sewers in real life to steal food).

[chiasaur11]

I'm pretty sure some animals can break the human skull.

It's not easy, but...

Ah, looked up some figures.

Crocodiles can deliver enough force to crush human skulls. Good to know.

[Spiryt]

Did you just say the human skull is harder than steel? Rats can chew through steel. Yes, they can tear through a tank if they desired (they usually use this to get into pipes/sewers in real life to steal food).

Hardness is hardly only factor in determining such things, though.

Also, is there any data on how much steel they can chew trough and how long it will take them?

[Zeta Kai]

Alligators, some crocodiles, some sharks, hyenas, toothed whales... Jaguars have the force needed but they can't open their mouths wide enough. Lions and/or tigers might be able to pull it off, too. I'm sure that I've missed some.

Hippopotamuses, too. And they're mean sumbiches. Just imagine a zombie hippo...

[Moff Chumley]

Some people did not drink milk as children and consequently have brittle bones.

*rewards with internet*

[TheMeMan]

Did you just say the human skull is harder than steel? Rats can chew through steel. Yes, they can tear through a tank if they desired (they usually use this to get into pipes/sewers in real life to steal food).

Even still, it's a bit false. If I remember correctly it, it is "harder" but far more brittle than many metals. To get to our brains, you don't have to gnaw at the bone, such would be a pointless waste of time and energy. Depending on the point of the skull in question, anywhere from 15 to 200 pounds per square inch of force is need. Considering that most large dogs can easily crack certain areas of our skull, it's simply a moot point. The fact is, you don't use your teeth to puncture the skull, as it will crack quickly under even small force.

[Greenish]

Did you just say the human skull is harder than steel? Rats can chew through steel. Yes, they can tear through a tank if they desired (they usually use this to get into pipes/sewers in real life to steal food).

They don't chew, silly. They use tiny katanas.

[Lycanthromancer]

They don't chew, silly. They use tiny katanas.

Nah. That's Kitana. That dirty rat.