Stat yourself with WOD mechanics

[Kurald Galain]

Okay, in a recent thread people were statting themselves using D&D mechanics (six attributes, lots of skills, and levels). This thread attempts to do the same using World of Darkness mechanics. This thread is not meant for debating which mechanics are superior, just give an example of your stats.

Here's a World Of Darkness skill list. The nine attributes are below. Attributes is ranked from one to five, where two is average, and four and five is extremely good. Skills go from one (beginner) to three (advanced), again four and five is extremely good.

So this is me, more or less.

    Attributes
Intelligence  •••••   Strength  ••     Presence     ••  
Wits          ••••    Dexterity ••     Manipulation ••   
Resolve       ••      Stamina   •••    Composure    •••  

    Skills
Academics     ••      Athletics •      Animal Ken   
Computer      •••     Brawl            Empathy      ••
Crafts        •       Drive     •      Expression   •
Investigation •••     Firearms         Intimidation 
Medicine      •       Larceny          Persuasion   •
Occult        •••     Stealth   •      Socialize    ••
Politics      •       Survival  •      Streetwise   
Science       •••     Weaponry         Subterfuge   •

Old World of Darkness has a few extra skills, notably Linguistics and Alertness.

[SurlySeraph]

Intelligence 4, Wits 3, Resolve 1
Strength 2, Dexterity 3, Stamina 2
Presence 2, Manipulation 2, Composure 2

Skills:
Mental: Academics (History) 3, Computer 1, Investigation 1, Medicine (Emergency Care) 2, Occult 1, Politics 1, Science 2
Physical: Athletics 2, Brawl (Grappling) 2, Stealth 1, Survival 2
Social: Empathy 2, Persuasion 2
Virtue/Vice: Justice/ Sloth
Merits: (7 dots) Eidetic Memory (2), Language (French) (1), Language (Latin) (1), Resources (1), Fighting Style (Grappling 2, from Armory Reloaded. No, I don't meet the stamina requirement. I don't care).

[Caphi]

You think you're 5 intelligence? Really? On a scale where 3 is merely uncommon and 4 is exceptional?

[OverdrivePrime]

You think you're 5 intelligence? Really? On a scale where 3 is merely uncommon and 4 is exceptional?

I'm not sure if you're serious or if you're making a joke about the silly "no one can have an 18" screaming matches from the d20 threads. If you're going to complain about people rating themselves at 5 dots in a stat or skill, you'd better be prepared to complain about people having a 1 in a stat as well.

[KillianHawkeye]

If you're going to complain about people rating themselves at 5 dots in a stat or skill, you'd better be prepared to complain about people having a 1 in a stat as well.

A 1 isn't that uncommon in WoD. Having a 0 in a stat would be pretty uncommon in most cases.

[Otodetu]

Would not a "rate someone else" using the wod system be better?

[Draxar]

The problem I always find is I feel like I should be something and a half.

Strength 3.5
Dexterity 1.5
Intelligence 3.5

[OverdrivePrime]

Okay, this fancy schmancy new World of Darkness is still a little unfamiliar to me, but I'll do my best with the new rules. Bear with.

Name: ODP     Age: 33      Virtue: Charity    Vice: Pride
    Attributes
Intelligence  •••     Strength  ••••   Presence     •••  
Wits          •••     Dexterity •••    Manipulation ••   
Resolve       ••      Stamina   ••••   Composure    •••• 

    Skills
Academics     •••     Athletics •••    Animal Ken   ••
Computer      ••      Brawl     •••    Empathy      ••••
Crafts        •       Drive     ••     Expression   ••
Investigation •       Firearms         Intimidation •
Medicine      •       Larceny          Persuasion   ••
Occult        •       Stealth   •      Socialize    •••
Politics      •••     Survival  •••    Streetwise   •
Science       •••     Weaponry  •      Subterfuge   ••

[James the Dark]

Stealing the above-guy's code, because it makes my job easier.

Name: JTD     Age: 25      Virtue: Fortitude    Vice: Envy
    Attributes
Intelligence  •••     Strength  ••    Presence     ••  
Wits          ••••    Dexterity •••   Manipulation ••   
Resolve       •••••   Stamina   •••   Composure    •••• 

    Skills
Academics     •••     Athletics •      Animal Ken   ••••
Computer      •       Brawl     •      Empathy      ••••
Crafts                Drive     ••     Expression   •••
Investigation •••     Firearms  ••     Intimidation •
Medicine      •       Larceny   •      Persuasion   ••
Occult        •       Stealth   ••••   Socialize    ••
Politics              Survival  •      Streetwise   •
Science       •••     Weaponry  ••     Subterfuge   •••

Specialties: 
Science-Psychology 
Firearms-Rifle 
Stealth-Moving Silently Until I'm Much Closer Than You Expect Me To Be
Expression-Writing

[Psyx]

The problem with WoD is nicely highlighted by this thread: You don't have enough points to even make yourself, let alone someone 'really good'.

[Kurald Galain]

ODP, thanks for that layout!

The problem with WoD is nicely highlighted by this thread: You don't have enough points to even make yourself, let alone someone 'really good'.

What makes you think that? Most of the examples posted here are pretty close to the 7/5/3 attributes (plus one dot each as default) and 13/9/5 skills the game gives you.

You think you're 5 intelligence?

Yes. Furthermore, I am personally acquainted with two world-level athletes, which I would give a 5 dexterity and 5 stamina, respectively. I don't mean the actual gold medalists, of course. That it's rare to have five dots in anything doesn't mean it's nonexistent.

[Kythorian]

Actually...it IS almost non-existant. world level athletes are stated to generally have 4 in one or MAYBE two physical abilities. world renown scientists likewise have one or MAYBE two level 4 mental abilities...Those with a five really are the people who win multiple golds at the olympics...then do it again four years later. Or scientists who redefine their fields.

You people are way over-rating yourselves. According to the books, level 5's do exist among mundane people, but they are INCREDIBLY rare. like...maybe a couple hundred or so (non supernaturally enhanced) people on the entire planet have a single 5 in a stat...

In WoD, even when you first create your character, you are supposted to be very exceptional, and you generally have maybe 1 lvl 4 at that point. I don't buy that any single person on this entire thread deserves a single level 4 dot, much less level 5s and multiple lvl 4's. Be honest with yourselves...even well above average int is still only 3.

Below is what I honestly thing of my own stats...

Stealing the above-guy's code, because it makes my job easier.(again)

Name:      Age: 24      Virtue: Fortitude    Vice: Sloth
    Attributes
Intelligence  •••     Strength  •    Presence     •  
Wits          •••    Dexterity ••   Manipulation ••   
Resolve       ••   Stamina   ••   Composure    •• 

    Skills
Academics     ••     Athletics •      Animal Ken   •
Computer      ••       Brawl           Empathy      •
Crafts                Drive     •     Expression   
Investigation      Firearms  •     Intimidation 
Medicine      •       Larceny   •      Persuasion   •
Occult        •       Stealth      Socialize    
Politics        •      Survival  •      Streetwise   
Science       •     Weaponry       Subterfuge   ••

Edit: And why would we complain when someone gives themself a 1? 1's are almost as common as 2's for attributes in WoD...its 4's and 5's that are so extremely rare.

[The Rose Dragon]

What makes you think that? Most of the examples posted here are pretty close to the 7/5/3 attributes (plus one dot each as default) and 13/9/5 skills the game gives you.

All good, except the game gives you 5/4/3 and 11/7/4. And the fifth dot in attributes costs two points instead of one. Therefore, to have Intelligence 5, you must have Mental as primary and have one dot in both Wits and Resolve.

[Psyx]

What makes you think that? Most of the examples posted here are pretty close to the 7/5/3 attributes (plus one dot each as default) and 13/9/5 skills the game gives you.

Those aren't the numbers that the game gives you, dude!

[Kurald Galain]

All good, except the game gives you 5/4/3 and 11/7/4.

Ah yes. oWOD is 7/5/3, nWOD is 5/4/3. My bad.

Actually...it IS almost non-existant. world level athletes are stated to generally have 4 in one or MAYBE two physical abilities. world renown scientists are likewise have one or MAYBE two level 4 mental abilities...Those with a five really are the people who win multiple golds at the olympics...then do it again four years later.

...and where is this stated in the rulebooks? Or is it just your personal interpretation?

For instance, this strikes me as a fair ranking of stamina. Note that these descriptions vary between various editions of WOD, so two books may contradict one another.
* You are out of breath after walking up the stairs.
** You're an average joe and can do some sporting without trouble.
*** You are fit and exercise regularly.
**** You could run a marathon.
***** You could compete in a global running competition.

It so happens that I know several people who regularly run marathons, so that strikes me as four dots, since it is one thing to be above average, and another thing entirely to run 42 kilometers.

[Kythorian]

I don't remember where it is(And I mostly play oWoD, so maybe they eased up on how many high dot people there are in nWoD, i don't know). And sure...I would say that being able to run a marathon might qualify you for stamina 4. but how many of us here can do that? And its certainly not going to automatically qualify us for 5 just because we can complete the thing. 5 is meant to be the absolute height of human potential. And 2/3 of the posters on a random gaming forum are claiming that they are the height of human potential in at one aspect?

I do not buy it.

Edit: Oh, and even 4 stamina means that you could just go out and run a marathon right now...not that you have at some point in the past or that with a month or two of training you could again...Just working out regularly and running a couple times a week might get you to 3, but it takes real dedication to reach 4, and innate talent AND extreme dedication to reach 5.

[Kurald Galain]

IAnd sure...I would say that being able to run a marathon might qualify you for stamina 4. but how many of us here can do that?

Not me. But I know several people that could. And competing in the olympics or world series strikes me as precisely the absolute height of human potential.

Let's see. Pulling out a random oWOD book, let me cite some examples of four dots.

Lift 400 lbs. I can't do that myself, but there are some people at the local gym who can. Even if it's just two or three people in my city - there's a lot of cities.
Become a professional athlete or dancer. I can't do that either, but I have had classmates who did just that.
"You can run a marathon" is in fact the description for stamina 4. And yes, I know several people who do just that. If it strikes you that I know a lot of people, you would be correct.

Everyone wants to be your friend. Okay, that's a bit trickier to adjudicate. Still, the most popular guy/girl in college probably qualifies. That's a handful of people per city, again.
I don't know any examples of people with high manipulation (or perhaps I'm just not aware of them ) but you should be able to find a few in any corporate scene.
Appearance is easier: the description says, you could be a model. A former classmate of mine is dating a model, check. Six Degrees at work again.

So yeah. While four dots is certainly uncommon, I can easily find numerous examples of those in my social circle. Starting a WOD character with a few fours doesn't strike me as problematic. In fact, in oWOD it's hard to avoid: of the 7/5/3, that 7 can easily be distributed as 4/4/3, and that's before freebie points.

[Coplantor]

That covers the 4 dots stuff, sort of, but some people here claim that they have 5 dots on some skills/atributes.

[Kythorian]

I never said that 4's were massively rare...they are somewhat rare though. Maybe I'm wrong and you do deserve 4 int...I don't know you, so who knows. I don't believe that you deserve 5 though, simply because the odds of you being one of the handful in the entire country strikes me as low. Because while 4s are simply uncommon, 5s really are vanishingly rare.

As the book says, "Outstanding. The peak of normal human capability. Continuously exercised or naturally blessed."

So unless you really are a scientist at the top of your field or something similar...sorry, you don't have 5 int.

[Kythorian]

And if we are going back to oWoD for some examples...here are some 5's:

Dex: You can dance along the edge of a precipice while blindfolded.
Cha: You inspire people to great deeds and loyalty.
Manipulation: With little effort, you can make people do almost anything you want.
Appearance: You awe and fascinate others with your beauty.

The others are not so clear in exactly what level of exellence they refer to(ex-perception: few things get past you. what does that mean?)

But hopefully we can get the picture of exactly how amazing people with 5 in a single stat should be. When is the last time you have been awed by someone's beauty? Even by a model? And so on.

Edit: And some lvl 5 abilities:
Brawl: You've developed your own unique style and perhaps formed a fighting school.
Dodge: Over time, you've actually learned to sidestep bullets.
Expression: You are nationally known and loved for your expressive skills, one of the most popular artists of your day, such as Andy Warhol, Pavarotti, or Stephen King.
Intimidation: Faced with your commanding presence, a wolf might consider showing its throat to you.

Drive(here is a good example): level four is "you could race professionally."

Leadership: You can change the course of human evetns, like Gandhi...or Genghis Khan.

etc.

So...yeah...

[The Rose Dragon]

In fact, in oWOD it's hard to avoid: of the 7/5/3, that 7 can easily be distributed as 4/4/3, and that's before freebie points.

I just opened my Hunter: The Reckoning book, and it's 6/4/3, not 7/5/3. Even then, 7 can be distributed as 4/3/3, not 4/4/3.

[Psyx]

In my mind:

1: You've had about a week's worth of professional training, and kept up with it. You don't get a level 1 skill just for dabbling, or reading a few books 2 years ago.

2: You are good at this. You studied it a lot, or it's a major secondary field in your job, or it's a hobby that you're really into. You take time to keep up-to-date and in practice and have been professionally trained. Infantry probably have Firearms 2, for example.

3: This is your job, or you could walk into a job in this field. Being fit isn't athletics 3. Being good on a PC isn't Computers 3. Being a theatre nurse is Medicine 3. Being a black-belt who still trains and gets into fights at the weekend is Brawling 3. Being a massive petrol-head who spends all his spare cash on his cars, gets up a couple of nights a week at 2am to practice on empty roads for a while, and goes to track-days a dozen times a year is Driving 3*.

4: You can pull down SERIOUS money in your job, because you're consultant-level. Good doctor: Medicine 4. Top-flight contract programmer: Computers 4. Professional racing driver: Drive 4. Phd and university lecturer: Academics 4. If you have a level 4 skill and don't do it for a living, or in every breathing moment of your spare time... you probably don't have a level 4 skill.

5: World-class. People call you up from other continents to offer you jobs, or to lecture in universities. You've written a stack of books about it that people cite all the while. You at least have a good shot at getting into the national team.

***

We actually sat in the pub once when 1st Ed V:tM came out and did this, just to see how silly the points system was. Best moment was when someone claimed to have Streetwise 3. I asked him if he could get hold of a sawn-off shotgun for me in less than 2 hours, while someone else said 'No you don't: You got mugged last year!




*Yes: This is how obsessive I've been about my driving. And there's no way I deserve 4 dots in it!

[Kythorian]

oWoD varied from system to system. There was no set char creation system for everyone, then you just throw your supernatural template on top of that like there is in nWoD.

Most of the systems were 7/5/3.

[The Rose Dragon]

oWoD varied from system to system. There was no set char creation system for everyone, then you just throw your supernatural template on top of that like there is in nWoD.

Most of the systems were 7/5/3.

In most of the systems, you weren't creating a normal human. Hunter is the only one where you did.

[Kythorian]

Those are some wacky "normal humans"...throwing bolts of energy around, and giving themselves supernatural strength...healing from near fatal gunshot wounds in an hour or so...Pretty neat.

But I get your point. I think mostly we are using nWoD mechanics for this anyway though, in which you universally(for hunter, or vamp, or whatever else) get 5/4/3

[OverdrivePrime]

And 2/3 of the posters on a random gaming forum are claiming that they are the height of human potential in at one aspect?

I do not buy it.

Edit: Oh, and even 4 stamina means that you could just go out and run a marathon right now...not that you have at some point in the past or that with a month or two of training you could again...Just working out regularly and running a couple times a week might get you to 3, but it takes real dedication to reach 4, and innate talent AND extreme dedication to reach 5.

As a reference here, I actually have just gone out and run a marathon. Hadn't run more than a half mile for at least a month prior to this monumentally stupid undertaking. My only excuse is that at the time I was 21 and there was a very cute girl who dared me. I've since learned the valuable lesson of "just because I can, that doesn't mean I should."
A few days later, when I was able to climb stairs without using my hands, I resolved to only use my powers for good and not for showing off.
Since then, I've actually increased my stamina, and I'm still dogged by my damnable pride, but I've got the experience to avoid potentially awful decisions.

[Kythorian]

As a reference here, I actually have just gone out and run a marathon. Hadn't run more than a half mile for at least a month prior to this monumentally stupid undertaking. My only excuse is that at the time I was 21 and there was a very cute girl who dared me. I've since learned the valuable lesson of "just because I can, that doesn't mean I should."
A few days later, when I was able to climb stairs without using my hands, I resolved to only use my powers for good and not for showing off.
Since then, I've actually increased my stamina, and I'm still dogged by my damnable pride, but I've got the experience to avoid potentially awful decisions.

I would say that that does not really qualify you for stam 4...'Being able to run a marathon' to me says being able to finish it and still be in reaonably decent physical shape afterwards. But thats just me. Still, quite impressive. I doubt I could full out run a 10k even with the motivation of a cute girl daring me...

[CarpeGuitarrem]

• Poor. Unexercised, unpracticed or inept.
•• Average. The result of occasional effort or application.
••• Good. Regular practice or effort, or naturally talented.
•••• Exceptional. Frequently applied, tested and honed, or naturally
gifted.
••••• Outstanding. The peak of normal human capability. Continuously exercised or naturally blessed.

This is the system that the nWoD uses. Based on this, I'm with the "people are overrating themselves" crowd.

And using the above code...

Name: CG     Age: 21     Virtue: Faith    Vice: Sloth
    Attributes
Intelligence  ••••  Strength  •      Presence     ••  
Wits          •      Dexterity •••   Manipulation •   
Resolve       •••    Stamina   ••    Composure   •••• 

    Skills
Academics     •••     Athletics ••      Animal Ken   
Computer      ••       Brawl           Empathy      •••
Crafts                Drive          Expression   •••
Investigation      Firearms       Intimidation 
Medicine             Larceny         Persuasion   ••
Occult               Stealth      Socialize    ••
Politics              Survival        Streetwise   
Science       ••     Weaponry  ••     Subterfuge   •

Specialties: 
Academics--Religion
Athletics--Running
Persuasion--Calming (not a listed specialty, but oh well)

[Project_Mayhem]

Ooh, we did this a few months ago. Mine was something like:

Name: PM Age: 21 Virtue: Hope Vice: Sloth
Attributes
Intelligence •••• Strength •• Presence •••
Wits • Dexterity • Manipulation •
Resolve •• Stamina •• Composure ••

Skills
Academics ••• Athletics Animal Ken
Computer •• Brawl • Empathy ••
Crafts Drive Expression ••••
Investigation Firearms • Intimidation
Medicine Larceny Persuasion •
Occult Stealth Socialize ••
Politics Survival Streetwise
Science •• Weaponry Subterfuge

Specialties:
Academics--English Lit.
Expression--Creative Writing

Merits:
Don't have the book on me but I remember definitely:

Iron Stomach
Encyclopaedic knowledge (in some areas)
Contacts (Nerds)

-

Not sure about the expression score - I write damn well, but I'm lazy and rarely finish. (see vice)

[Tiki Snakes]

Good to know we're all significantly smarter than average, with not one person in the thread claiming anything less than 3 int.