Running tuckers kobolds.

[druid91]

Ok, do to unforeseen circumstances I am put in the position of trying to run something to keep the other players amused while the GM is away, I have been working on a dungeon but I only have a couple of Ideas and really need a finished one fast. The general Idea is that there is an inn that the players frequent, a regular flavor character (basically an npc just controlled by me not the gm) has constructed a panic room under the inn the to get to this panic room you have to go through a trap filled dungeon, Then the kobolds moved in, Some of figs traps have fallen apart and become extremely unstable and the kobolds have made modifications of their own. not to mention the mysterious doorway that fig found.

So how should I run tuckers kobolds for a mostly first level party with the possibility of a few higher level characters. I would like this dungeon crawl to be long enough to gain a level or two.


Ideas I had,

1.Have kobolds line the low ceiling with oil soaked ropes so that the parties torches ignite them dropping piles of debris on the party, then they get attacked by kobolds.
2.set up chutes in the floor so that the kobolds can drop through shoot and then fall into a trapdoor which gets closed by another kobold.

[BobVosh]

Don't if you don't want a TPK. Level 1 is way too low for clever monsters at thier cleverest.

That said have fun with slight build and very small holes.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, that's kinda the opposite of what Tucker's Kobolds are intended for. They're not supposed to be used against a low-level party where ordinary kobolds are dangerous, that would be murderous overkill. The point of Tucker's Kobolds/Orcs/Balors is to present a seemingly low-level and innocuous type of creature as a major threat through tactics, to parties that underestimate them because of their apparent weakness.

[druid91]

Actually a TPK might be a good thing The game is dying (pbp) the main GM has vanished off the face of the earth twice. As in two completely different people have just disappeared while GMing, I am slightly afraid of stepping up because of assassins. But I have waited long enough I don't think either of them are coming back and as the next in line I am gonna try to get some sort of ending or continuation to the game.

[The Glyphstone]

Just as long as you know what you're getting into. Tucker's Kobolds aren't an encounter, they're an object lesson in not getting too full of yourself. If you want to kill the party off, I'd suggest something that's just clearly too big for them to handle, or just say 'game is over, everyone dies happy of old age'.

[druid91]

Yeah, that's kinda the opposite of what Tucker's Kobolds are intended for. They're not supposed to be used against a low-level party where ordinary kobolds are dangerous, that would be murderous overkill. The point of Tucker's Kobolds/Orcs/Balors is to present a seemingly low-level and innocuous type of creature as a major threat through tactics, to parties that underestimate them because of their apparent weakness.

Yeah but there are multiple higher level characters hanging around. Besides I don't plan on going all out. that would be ridiculous. but giving ordinary kobolds a tuckery twist should make things a little more interesting.

[Fendalus]

I would suggest taking a look at the Grimtooth's traps books if you can get your hands on them, but that would likely get the party killed within ten minutes of entry.

Lets see... First few I can think of:

1) Slight build abuse. Kobolds can count as tiny creatures for squeezing through tight spaces, so make every non-main route small enough that any party member has to make a check to enter it.

2) Room with Caltrops built into the floor. Add oil, then fire. PC's won't be able to run out fast enough to avoid burning. Add in tanglefoot bags if you really want them dead.

3) Arrow slits and light crossbows. Really, with several Kobolds running around shooting at them from time to time the PCs will get whittled down. And the PC's won't be able to effectively return fire, due to the arrow slits.

[awa]

marbles are great dc 15 balance check is pretty rough for many classes.

[Runestar]

Seems like tuckers' kobolds is less about tactics and more about being a douchebag DM by denying your players the full use of their abilities...

[The Big Dice]

Seems like tuckers' kobolds is less about tactics and more about being a douchebag DM by denying your players the full use of their abilities...

Using tactics is all about maximising your own strengths and playing to them, while minimising the strengths of your enemy and trying to make sure they can't bring that strengh to bear.

Tucker's kobolds are all about that. Use the right tactics, act like your description in the Monster Manual and most importantly, give your players something to remember.

[Lycanthromancer]

Not a good idea to use this on a low-level party, because you'll either end up with a TPK (which may hack off the players) or they'll end up nonlethally knocked out, stripped bare, and captured (which will definitely hack off the players).

Have them make some 8-10 level characters, then go for it.

I've come up with a lot more, but that should give you a few ideas on how to get started.

[Talakeal]

I didn't understand that story at all. It doesn't really explain what the kobolds did to hurt the party or why the party couldn't hurt the kobolds. The party mage even refuses to cast fireball for because it might kill him, but it will 100% kill all the kobolds and has almost no chance of killing the other party members.

[Tinydwarfman]

I didn't understand that story at all. It doesn't really explain what the kobolds did to hurt the party or why the party couldn't hurt the kobolds. The party mage even refuses to cast fireball for because it might kill him, but it will 100% kill all the kobolds and has almost no chance of killing the other party members.

What about the fact that it wouldn't hurt the kobolds at all, because they shoot out of arrow slits with another kobold who is always readying an action to close the the entrance if they are attacked.

Also, high level characters have lots of HP, but there are lots of kobolds firing light crossbows and making use of pretty nasty traps.

Of course, the wizard could have single-handedly destroyed it with the right spell, but he clearly wasn't optimized. Smart players can still beat it fairly easily, as long as they know somewhat of what they're going into.

[the humanity]

I didn't understand that story at all. It doesn't really explain what the kobolds did to hurt the party or why the party couldn't hurt the kobolds. The party mage even refuses to cast fireball for because it might kill him, but it will 100% kill all the kobolds and has almost no chance of killing the other party members.

the basic idea is make your characters have to run while the kobolds run out more and more crazy traps through your corridor. have the untrapping of the traps all trapped. have a kobold suicide bomber covered with shrapnel run in if they don't try to run. put oil on the floor, then light it on fire once everybody fell. make the one way to win simply running through the traps and escaping before they do something even crazier.

[Talakeal]

What about the fact that it wouldn't hurt the kobolds at all, because they shoot out of arrow slits with another kobold who is always readying an action to close the the entrance if they are attacked.

That was not mentioned in the story, it said they ran around corners and behind debris piles, nor do I believe readied actions worked like that in AD&D. And wouldn't the fireball just blow through the thin cover or come around and get them from behind?

Even if it is technically legal, I would imagine any sane DM would not allow such a strategy, it just doesn't make sense. The kobolds have to be readied to slam the window shut the second the mage casts a fireball, even though it is not at an angle to see the mage, and probably wouldn't know a fireball from a cure light wounds.

Even if they have a fireball proof plan, I am sure a 12th level mage (and I assume there is at least one other caster of similar level) would have SOMETHING to either kill the kobolds in the arrow slits or render their missile fire null and void. A casual reading of the players handbook can find dozens of such spells.

[Ravens_cry]

The point of Tuckers kobolds was not the kobolds per say, but the idea of monsters using their home turf advantage to deadly effect against arrogant adventurers. Kobolds have certain advantages for this situation, their small size and their ability to go places not even most small creatures can go, but they are hardly the only ones capable of being run smartly. The author even recommended using more powerful creatures at higher levels.
Also, they are extremely well known. Everyone expects kobolds to be smart, which takes away one of their main advantages, being underestimated by the party.

[Morph Bark]

Even if it is technically legal, I would imagine any sane DM would not allow such a strategy, it just doesn't make sense. The kobolds have to be readied to slam the window shut the second the mage casts a fireball, even though it is not at an angle to see the mage, and probably wouldn't know a fireball from a cure light wounds.

First, any sane DM would do things to challenge his players, even if it doesn't make a whole lot of sense - that's why you see fun and slightly random campaigns sometimes. Plus, if they couldn't see the mage, the mage couldn't see them and he likely didn't have line of effect either.

And I don't know a lot about the earlier editions, but weren't magic-users the blasty types back then? That limits his options too.

[Ravens_cry]

Blasting was effective, as the way hit points scaled was different, but even then there was a lot of spells that could mess you up in ways besides hitpoint damage.

[Vangor]

I didn't understand that story at all. It doesn't really explain what the kobolds did to hurt the party or why the party couldn't hurt the kobolds. The party mage even refuses to cast fireball for because it might kill him, but it will 100% kill all the kobolds and has almost no chance of killing the other party members.

The point was a group who should scoff at the notion of kobolds can be tested by doing more than flat combat with the statistics sheet. A vast majority of fights are straight forward with fighters rushing you, archers in the back, some caster buffs and heals, and another caster throws a couple hampering spells. Difficulty of the encounter should not be dictated solely by CR.

Do not take the story too literally. How did the party know of the kobolds yet entered with apparently no preparation except to run? I mean, they were already running and, oh no, the door which they weren't going to run to was locked behind them. Running is a terrible idea when apparently cunning kobolds are around, too, since you'll just trigger masses of traps. Probably not literal.

[Talakeal]

First, any sane DM would do things to challenge his players, even if it doesn't make a whole lot of sense - that's why you see fun and slightly random campaigns sometimes. Plus, if they couldn't see the mage, the mage couldn't see them and he likely didn't have line of effect either.

And I don't know a lot about the earlier editions, but weren't magic-users the blasty types back then? That limits his options too.

Well, it is only a challenge once. Then the players learn the tactic and use it every chance they get and tell the DM he is using blatant double standards to cheat them of victory if he doesn't allow it.

Fireball did not need line of effect, it simply filled 33,000 cubic feet of the dungeon with fire.

My point is this story makes no sense as written. The party new about the kobolds and had at least one high level caster, yet attempted no tactics. They didn't even try basic tactics or explain what the kobolds did other than shoot and then move away. I get the strong impression that the storyteller is either grossly exaggerating / misremembering events, flat out lying, or the DM was simply screwing the players with a ton of FIAT.

[Lord Loss]

A room I love to use runs like this Kobolds have arrow slits on the walls, you must go up and down some ladders, like this:

---l_______________l--- When they get down, the room starts to fill with oil and a kobold raises the ladder on the other side, and traps all over the floor start going off, then arrows are fired atthem. When they lok like they're nearing the other side, one of the arrows is set on fire before the shot... BOOM.

[Ravens_cry]

The point was a group who should scoff at the notion of kobolds can be tested by doing more than flat combat with the statistics sheet. A vast majority of fights are straight forward with fighters rushing you, archers in the back, some caster buffs and heals, and another caster throws a couple hampering spells. Difficulty of the encounter should not be dictated solely by CR.

Do not take the story too literally. How did the party know of the kobolds yet entered with apparently no preparation except to run? I mean, they were already running and, oh no, the door which they weren't going to run to was locked behind them. Running is a terrible idea when apparently cunning kobolds are around, too, since you'll just trigger masses of traps. Probably not literal.

Fear is the mind killer.
Also, the players were supremely arrogant.
Think about what the average kobold and how much of a threat they are to even a first level adventurer. Before dragonwrought, before Tucker, before Pun-pun, just a vanilla kobold with a point-ed stick.
Also, this was AD&D, a much less explicit game then 3.X, much more describe you actions, then work out them mechanics.
Kobolds weren't badass, they were puds. The players were expecting a typical straight up battle and got snookered.
That's why the kobolds won, because no one expected them to be able to do anything. They didn't expect the traps and such everyone NOW expects Kobolds to do.