E6

[UndeadCleric]

I keep see "E6" but I dont know what it means. What does it mean?

[Tyndmyr]

Epic 6.

Play until level 6. At that point, cease leveling, buy feats for 5k xp each.

[arguskos]

Epic 6.

Play until level 6. At that point, cease leveling, buy feats for 5k xp each.

Could have furnished him with a link, like so.

[Tyndmyr]

Eh, that's what google is for.

[arguskos]

Eh, that's what google is for.

Well, dude asked. Might as well just take the 10 seconds and give the link, in the spirit of spreading the love.

[Zeta Kai]

Could have furnished him with a link, like so.

Ah, Tyndmyr covered the basics. For some reason, E6 has become very popular in the last few months, & many forumites seem to prefer it to wacky-vanilla-D20. I didn't know that E meant Epic, though.

[Tyndmyr]

...in the spirit of spreading the love.

Error: Option "love" not found.

Would you like to destroy? Y/N/M?

[Yuki Akuma]

It's a silly houserule people use to try to make D&D 3.5 more 'realistic' (or at least less 'silly'), failing to take into account that anyone above level 5 is meant to be superhuman.

Why yes, I don't care for the house rule. Why do you ask?

[Cedrass]

It's a silly houserule people use to try to make D&D 3.5 more 'realistic' (or at least less 'silly'), failing to take into account that anyone above level 5 is meant to be superhuman.

Why yes, I don't care for the house rule. Why do you ask?

I don't care much for realism, but it does make the party member closer in power since Wizards don't get (as much) uber spells, Druids don't get (as much) overpowered form to shapeshift into, and Clerics don't get (as much) cheesy spells and such.

Full BAB gets a lot more useful and even the monk manages to be good playable!

[Hurlbut]

It's a silly houserule people use to try to make D&D 3.5 more 'realistic' (or at least less 'silly'), failing to take into account that anyone above level 5 is meant to be superhuman.

Why yes, I don't care for the house rule. Why do you ask?

*See Cedrass' post* It's not about realism, Level 6 is in the bracket of "Heroic Fantasy", but that having fun without power creep and figuring out how to tackle a wide variety of higher challenges

[Yora]

I think E6 works best for people who want to keep playing at a level at which even CR 1/2 monsters can still harm you, if you're not careful, but you can fight through entire hords of them. You have a number of really usefull spells, but these more support the guys with the swords and shields, than taking their spot in the frontline.
E6 is the system for you, if you want a game of warriors fighting hordes of mooks and only occasonally slay large monsters, without learning a new game system.

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't care much for realism, but it does make the party member closer in power since Wizards don't get (as much) uber spells, Druids don't get (as much) overpowered form to shapeshift into, and Clerics don't get (as much) cheesy spells and such.

Full BAB gets a lot more useful and even the monk manages to be good playable!

Several of the best Wizard spells are below level 4.

You know, before you get to level 9 spells, at which point nothing else compares. But Grease, Colour Spray, Sleep etc. are awesome.

[arrowhen]

It would indeed be a silly houserule if its author had intended it to be "realistic". Which he didn't.

[Rixx]

E6 is also great if you don't want to be a magic user.

[Hurlbut]

It doesn't handicap the magic users, it simply prevent a power gap that appear after 6th-8th levels.

[Rixx]

I know! I was implying you can be a non-magic user without getting eventually outmoded.

[Optimystik]

While the "E6 vs. Balor" thread has convinced me that CharOp cannot be denied, I do see how it can add a bit more grit to D&D.

Personally I would rather play "E8" - precious few PrCs are any good with just one level, particularly psionic ones.

[arrowhen]

I haven't had a chance to play it, but it sounds like a game I'd *like* to play a caster in. After 9th level or so as a caster I find the effort of not overshadowing the rest of the party exhausting... and I'm not even *good* at playing casters.

[Rixx]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who runs E6 is going to shut down obvious optimization attempts and loopholes and such.

What I like about E6 is that character customization is much easier, as characters become more versatile instea of getting bigger numbers.

[Hurlbut]

While the "E6 vs. Balor" thread has convinced me that CharOp cannot be denied, I do see how it can add a bit more grit to D&D.

Personally I would rather play "E8" - precious few PrCs are any good with just one level, particularly psionic ones.

Um actually, PrCs can be converted to feat chains; Prestige Featsp
You can see how a PrC can be broken down to a feat chain. The link only show several of the PrC converted, so you'll get the fun helping your DM converting a PrC to a feat chain .

[Greenish]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who runs E6 is going to shut down obvious optimization attempts

Like playing fighters with high strength? (You'd be surprised how often people try to wheedle that old cheese past the DM.)

[Cedrass]

Several of the best Wizard spells are below level 4.

You know, before you get to level 9 spells, at which point nothing else compares. But Grease, Colour Spray, Sleep etc. are awesome.

Yes, they are awesome, but what I meant is, it's nothing that will ruin an encounter (most of the time) and even if it does, you don't have enough spells per day to just fling them around.

[Draz74]

Personally I would rather play "E8" - precious few PrCs are any good with just one level, particularly psionic ones.

Yeah, there are several things I like better about E8. PrC access is one (although there are other solutions for that). Another is that Medium BAB actually matters, as opposed to E6 where the difference between Medium BAB and Poor BAB ends up being the difference between +4 and +3. Woo.

The potential downside to E8, in terms of BAB, is that Good BAB might not matter enough (since +8/+3 is not that much better than +6/+1), but I'm confident that capstone feats with BAB +8 as a prerequisite can take care of that.

[Mongoose87]

I love how E6 is the "Monk Thread" of the month. It's a much better topic.

[Zovc]

I love how E6 is the "Monk Thread" of the month. It's a much better topic.

I couldn't agree more.

[Mike_G]

It's a silly houserule people use to try to make D&D 3.5 more 'realistic' (or at least less 'silly'), failing to take into account that anyone above level 5 is meant to be superhuman.

Why yes, I don't care for the house rule. Why do you ask?

You're missing the point.

1-6 th level D&D isn't the same game as 15-20th level. It's a totally different genre by the time you hit double digits. If you like playing a heroic fantasy where PC's are badass normals who could actually die if enough Orcs show up, E6 lets you do that more or less forever without retiring your character.

If you like the bookkeeping nightmare that is high level play, don't use E6.

Not liking E6 is a fine and valid outlook. Not liking it because you judge it to have failed at making D&D realistic is like not liking NASA because they haven't made jetpacks available for public consumption. That was never the intent.

[Rixx]

Like playing fighters with high strength? (You'd be surprised how often people try to wheedle that old cheese past the DM.)

I was speaking more along the lines of having more than 3 classes in those 6th levels, but hey.

[Tyndmyr]

While the "E6 vs. Balor" thread has convinced me that CharOp cannot be denied, I do see how it can add a bit more grit to D&D.

Personally I would rather play "E8" - precious few PrCs are any good with just one level, particularly psionic ones.

Level drain fixes that.

See, I didn't MEAN to get early entry to Master Specialist. I didn't optimize for it. On the other hand, when the DM likes level draining things for a level 4 party, and the party is so cowardly the wizard ends up kicking in the door...Well, I guess I'll be ok with an extra level of MS.

[Person_Man]

E6 basically shifts power gaming away from full casters and psionics (who at that level still have limited spells per day and power points, lack access to 4th+ level spells and powers, and have a hard time pulling off serious metamagic/augmentation abuse) and toward Tier 3 classes - the Binder, Incarnate, Totemist, Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage, Wildshape Ranger, and to a lesser degree the Knight (if your DM is very fond of things vulnerable to Test of Mettle) and Paladin (if he lets you get an awesome Special Mount via Leadership).

It also means that you have to deal with fewer "nuclear bombs" of 3.5, such as Polymorph, Celerity, etc. (Though I think you can still be Pun-Pun, which is solved by a swift application of the DMG to the player's forehead).

This partially solves the main problem of 3.5 (imbalance) without resorting to 4E, which boiled almost everything down to a X[W] + ability mod damage + minor effect.

But essentially, it's just a matter of taste.

[Optimystik]

Level drain fixes that.

Ugh. I'll take Precocious Apprentice et al. any day over self-qualifying cheese.

@ Person_Man - I'd rather play E8 and just ban Polymorph. *shrug*