A new form of Trolling??(read more inside)

[zalmatra]

this is not against any particular posters here nor is it against any threads being discussed here but a startling number of posts i have seen on various forums i lurk on some i post /shame

alot of the posts compound the idea that undeath (depending on the lore source this can be incorrect or neutral at best) is not evil undead beings are not generally evil and that demons are misunderstood creatures and just the average run of the mill invaders like vikings.

the posts are generalized and none specific

specifically i have seen alot of posts in the wow forums and some of the dnd forums i have lurked
also alot of alignment philosophy crap which like philosophy is a snake eating its own tail

Warning NSFW alternative to snake eating its own tail which is more appropriate to the discussion at hand
{Scrubbed. If you have to mark something NSFW, it's a good indication that you shouldn't post it here.}


first point: Is there some sort of unknown trolling going on
second point: Or is it merely cross pollination from separate forums with a shiny endless discussion with no clear answers? (see snake eating its own tail)

Warning hypothetical situation has reached probability limits

[Telonius]

To the first point - well, it might be trolling, but it's certainly not new, and definitely not unknown. This sort of topic has been done to death and back over the years, for a variety of reasons. (Real-world differences of opinion about objective/subjective morality, vagueness and sometimes-contradictory definitions of alignment within WotC sources, a combination of Gabe's Theory and XKCD's Revelation, the fact that gamers are historically a bunch of rules-lawyers who try to pull a fast one over on their poor unsuspecting DM...)

In short, yeah, it's annoying, but there's no sinister plot involved.

[Prodan]

In short, yeah, it's annoying, but there's no sinister plot involved.

None whatsoever.

[zalmatra]

ill accept that the discussion decided to randomly spawn again like salmon :P

[Ranos]

This entire theory is nonsense. Who would even orchestrate that kind of trolling ?
Shut up and move along if you know what's good for you.

[hamishspence]

"The undead are not always evil" has a lot of support in past and present editions- including 4E- so it's not surprising it gets mentioned a lot.

"Demons are not always evil" has Fall-From-Grace in Planescape Torment, and that succubus paladin, to support it- as well as cambions in Expedition to the Demonweb pits, which are only technically demons (outsiders native to the Abyss with the Chaotic and Evil subtypes) and as much as 10% of cambions are Neutral or Good.

That said, nonevil demons are very very rare, and those demons which are evil, are exceptionally evil.

[SilverClawShift]

It's trolling to have a non-standard opinion about how fantasy creatures work?

[faceroll]

This entire theory is nonsense. Who would even orchestrate that kind of trolling ?
Shut up and move along if you know what's good for you.

Some sort of internet hate machine....

[zalmatra]

My reference was to how over a short two weeks the discussions spawned swiftly across multiple boards i normally peruse and lurk on. i recently decided to post on this forum o.o

having a nonstandard opinion is fine but remember avoid the snake eating its own tail kind of discussion.

[zalmatra]

-hides from the internet ninjas.-

[Volomon]

this is not against any particular posters here nor is it against any threads being discussed here but a startling number of posts i have seen on various forums i lurk on some i post /shame

alot of the posts compound the idea that undeath (depending on the lore source this can be incorrect or neutral at best) is not evil undead beings are not generally evil and that demons are misunderstood creatures and just the average run of the mill invaders like vikings.

the posts are generalized and none specific

specifically i have seen alot of posts in the wow forums and some of the dnd forums i have lurked
also alot of alignment philosophy crap which like philosophy is a snake eating its own tail

Warning NSFW alternative to snake eating its own tail which is more appropriate to the discussion at hand
{Scrubbed}


first point: Is there some sort of unknown trolling going on
second point: Or is it merely cross pollination from separate forums with a shiny endless discussion with no clear answers? (see snake eating its own tail)

Warning hypothetical situation has reached probability limits

Oh technically not a troll or rant, this is at the heart of vikings (northmen, I think) in Warhammer. Ya vikings can murder you and your babies to them this isn't an evil act, because their society doesn't work that way. I think they mean, evil as in how YOU view it, from another's perspective it might not be evil. For instance if you killed a chicken for breakfast, PETA would consider that evil. However you would consider that breakfast.

Warhammer describes what your talking about in perfect order so well in fact that you start to see the point of view from the evil side, to where it no longer sounds evil at all.

[Strawberries]

"Demons are not always evil" has Fall-From-Grace in Planescape Torment, and that succubus paladin, to support it.

I don't have much to contribute, but I just wanted to say that Fall-From-Grace
was an awesome character.

/useless post

Also, can I ask which succubus paladin?

[hamishspence]

I wonder if anyone's listed the most common recurring topics on the forum, and how often they recur?

Monk threads
Edition-criticism threads
Alignment threads
Paladin-fall threads

And so on.

I don't have much to contribute, but I just wanted to say that Fall-From-Grace
was an awesome character.

/useless post

Also, can I ask which succubus paladin?

This succubus paladin:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a

Fall-From-Grace got mentioned in Demonomicon-Malcanthet in Dragon Magazine, written by James Jacobs who was on the WoTC staff- so she may be canon in 3.5 ed D&D- not just a "game-only" character.

[mrcarter11]

You need to add ToB to the list. It gets mentioned at least once a week.

[zalmatra]

i prefer that 9 swords book heh

[Optimystik]

It's trolling to have a non-standard opinion about how fantasy creatures work?

Forsooth! Halt yon presses!

[Prodan]

So, I have a Monk/Paladin who lied to the Inquisitor of a Lawful Evil nation to protect innocent orphaned puppies from being kicked. Does this cause him to fall for violating his code of conduct and change alignment to Chaotic?

I wish things were simpler like in 4e. Maybe I should make a Swordsage/Crusader as my next character and save myself the headache?

[Coplantor]

I wonder if anyone's listed the most common recurring topics on the forum, and how often they recur?

Monk threads
Edition-criticism threads
Alignment threads
Paladin-fall threads

And so on.

Dont forget Fighter vs Wizard and VoP druid.

Recently, there's been a lot of E6 too

[Reynard]

i prefer that 9 swords book heh

*Narrow's eyes*

Yes, ToB.

*Is not sure if this thread about trolling is not, in fact, a troll thread*

[hamishspence]

So, I have a Monk/Paladin who lied to the Inquisitor of a Lawful Evil nation to protect innocent orphaned puppies from being kicked. Does this cause him to fall for violating his code of conduct and change alignment to Chaotic?

As a paladin put it in War & XPs after lying to Miko "It's a violation, but not a gross violation"

So- no real worries. Especially if you atone a little (say 10 Hail Pelor's? ) even though you didn't actually fall.

[Stompy]

There's been (and there is one right now) issues with optimization vs. X or I hate optimization because Y.

[Viskocity]

-hides from the internet ninjas.-

You can never hide...

Anyhoo, I can't help but find it strange that you are posting a thread disparaging other peoples opinions on the nature of undead and outsiders, but try to couch it as 'anti-trolling' or some such. Sometimes a discussion does not need to a clear conclusion. The point is just to share ideas and see what others think about the subject.

If anyone, I would say that you are the troll.

[Jallorn]

Oh technically not a troll or rant, this is at the heart of vikings (northmen, I think) in Warhammer. Ya vikings can murder you and your babies to them this isn't an evil act, because their society doesn't work that way. I think they mean, evil as in how YOU view it, from another's perspective it might not be evil. For instance if you killed a chicken for breakfast, PETA would consider that evil. However you would consider that breakfast.

Warhammer describes what your talking about in perfect order so well in fact that you start to see the point of view from the evil side, to where it no longer sounds evil at all.

Hold up, vikings never killed women or children. They abducted women since they saw them as property, killed the men that fought them, yes, but they would never hurt a child. At least the honorable ones, obviously there are exceptions.

[hamishspence]

Might be interesting to go back to the date of the Great Thread Purge, and count off when each new thread of the listed "common recurring type" occurred, and do a chart showing how many such threads were made each month- thus identifying the most common recurrers.

That said, seems like too much hard work.

[Ravens_cry]

It's more that threads come in packs. Say there is a burning question or idea in your mind you want to express, but your not sure if should say it or not. Then someone decides to post something related in some way to that topic. That "breaks the ice" and you get a bunch of related topics because people feel like they can post it now.
That's my theory anyway.

[zalmatra]

The thread is changing like a tide rising onto the land reclaiming its glory, it yearns it feeds it grows perhaps into something else. When the dust settles will the original answer be divined?

on topic the answer i got from the chicken bones was:

the sudden flaring of discussed topics is random and cross pollination between boards the sudden upsurge is not due to any trickery but merely the randomness of the interwebs

also i don't mind the tome of battle. its all combat related stuff a central part of dungeons and dragons, but don't forget the roleplaying :P

[hamishspence]

It's more that threads come in packs. Say there is a burning question or idea in your mind you want to express, but your not sure if should say it or not. Then someone decides to post something related in some way to that topic. That "breaks the ice" and you get a bunch of related topics because people feel like they can post it now.
That's my theory anyway.

You never know, maybe there's a dissertation on that very subject "The Sociology of Forums" or something like that.

[zalmatra]

discussion is fine but there comes a point in the conversation where its a snake eating its own tail.

[Telonius]

Hold up, vikings never killed women or children. They abducted women since they saw them as property, killed the men that fought them, yes, but they would never hurt a child. At least the honorable ones, obviously there are exceptions.

Though if the kid was a Packers fan, all bets were off.

[hamishspence]

discussion is fine but there comes a point in the conversation where its a snake eating its own tail.

Sometimes. Or it may derail and head off in another direction.