Level 20 Factotum vs. ? level Sorcerer

[Jallorn]

Here's the scenario: An adventuring group has run into a level 20 Factotum who obliterated all of them but the Sorcerer. In this process, the Factotum used up all his inspiration points, but still has all his spells and health. Additionally, the Sorcerer also still has all his spells and health, and neither has any items aside from an ordinary weapon some armor, and their clothes. What is the minimum level the Sorcerer would have to be to challenge the Factotum assuming that the Factotum prepared his spells just for this battle?

[Reynard]

The Factotum is turned into a smear if the Sorc is higher than 9-10, since he needs IP to use his spells.

[Tinydwarfman]

4th.

What's that? I'm sorry, I can't hear you over my invincible Wings of Cover. *Scorching Ray*

(admittedly, the sorcerer will probably still lose at this level, but he has a chance if he has lots of bonus slots)

[Ranos]

Well, if the factotum has magic items, maybe he can use a scroll to teleport away or something. Otherwise, he's dead, if the sorcerer is anywhere close to mid levels.

Although the difference in WBL could still make him quite a threat.

[Prodan]

6th, if the sorcerer has been kitted out for Fell Drain Spell.


Although the Factotum's items will likely make it a tough fight.

[Bayar]

Yeah, no inspiration points = no spells for factotums. He better get the **** away from the sorcerer, find a door (preferably a locked one), attempt to open it (the door is now a new encounter) and refresh his IP. Otherwise, he's ****ed.

Also:

4th.

What's that? I'm sorry, I can't hear you over my invincible Wings of Cover. *Scorching Ray*

What's that ? Wings of Cover ? I can't hear you over my Cunning Surge. *throws other nuke at sorcerer*

[Jallorn]

Well then let's say the Factotum has decided to use spells to beat the Sorcerer then.

[Tinydwarfman]

What's that ? Wings of Cover ? I can't hear you over my Cunning Surge. *throws other nuke at sorcerer*

I'd like to see how you use Cunning Surge with no IP.

[ryzouken]

This is where the Factotum teleports away, then teleports back after a little bit. The result? New combat encounter. Factotum receives their full complement of IP back and goes to town.

Another method by which a Factotum can obtain their IP again include use of a wish scroll (with a suitably agreeable DM anyway).


Without IP, a factotum is an average BAB skill monkey with few to no class abilities. A suitably prepared Factotum might pull a scroll of UMD and begin grappling, hosing the sorcerer.

The sorcerer should probably be near the Factotum's level to provide a solid fight.

My money remains on the Factotum though. That class is made of win and awesome, even after expending its IP.

[Jack_Simth]

Ignoring items?

Wings of Cover would help... as long as the Factotum doesn't go Melee (multiple attacks). But with a Factotum going pure spellcasting, and not spending any Inspiration on things other than spells? About 8th or so with Wings of Cover or similar; about 15th or so without.

[Talbot]

Optimization is important here; a well-optimized Facotum 20's going to hose almost any Sorcerer who isn't using Contingency or Celerity type shenanigans to win initiative, since a Factotum 20 has ridiculous initiative boosts and could, if he felt like it, throw it several save-or-lose spells, or move and grapple, or really do whatever he feels like doing before the Sorc has a chance to do jack.

Of course, a Factotum with no IP can't do anything that makes him a Factotum so it doesn't really matter. A fighter 8 or so can hose a Wizard 20 if he can't use spells.

[Bayar]

I'd like to see how you use Cunning Surge with no IP.

The factotum needs IP to cast spells. How can a sorcerer block one of the factotum's spells with wings of cover then scorching ray him if the factotum didn't already regain his IP to cast the spell ? Thus, the example in which a sorcerer uses wings of cover to pwn the factotum assumes the factotum has IP. Thus the factotum has IP for Cunning Surge.

[Stompy]

The sorcerer needs to pray that a save or suck lands (I'm assuming that the factotum has enough HP to laugh off any damage), otherwise, the factotum will iajustu focus the sorc with his switchblade gnome quickrazor.

See also, depending on terrain and build for factotum, the factotum could just snipe the sorc out.

EDIT: I don't have the Dungeonscape book; what level spells does the factotum 20 get?

[Morph Bark]

The factotum needs IP to cast spells. How can a sorcerer block one of the factotum's spells with wings of cover then scorching ray him if the factotum didn't already regain his IP to cast the spell ? Thus, the example in which a sorcerer uses wings of cover to pwn the factotum assumes the factotum has IP. Thus the factotum has IP for Cunning Surge.

Unless, of course, the Factotum has only 1 or 2 IP.

[Tinydwarfman]

The factotum needs IP to cast spells. How can a sorcerer block one of the factotum's spells with wings of cover then scorching ray him if the factotum didn't already regain his IP to cast the spell ? Thus, the example in which a sorcerer uses wings of cover to pwn the factotum assumes the factotum has IP. Thus the factotum has IP for Cunning Surge.

OP already said that factotum can use spells, but has no IP.

[Draz74]

EDIT: I don't have the Dungeonscape book; what level spells does the factotum 20 get?

A Factotum 20 gets 8 spells per day. One of them may be a 7th Level spell; the others may be up to Level 6.

[Stompy]

A Factotum 20 gets 8 spells per day. One of them may be a 7th Level spell; the others may be up to Level 6.

Meaning that should the factotum goes first, he has a really good chance of killing the sorcerer.

(EDIT) My strategy for the factotum is sniping. This should allow me to catch the sorc flat-footed, so that it can't take immediate actions (like wings of cover). I was going to start with power word blind, but he could in theory still get off immediates as blindness is not the same as flat-footedness (I think).

EDIT: Better plan, cast AMF when it is my turn .