Fireball fluff -- can you intercept the bead?

[Fitz10019]

The fluff of the fireball spell says a bead shoots from the caster's finger, unless it hits a "material body or solid barrier" along the way, in which case it detonates at that point, instead of at the caster's intended point. On the one hand, the spell is instantaneous, but on the other the fluff is very clear that the bead travels from point A to point B.

Has anyone every exploited this fluff with a readied action to thwart a fireballing foe? Ever send a fire elemental into a blocking position, or shoot an arrow to intercept the bead? Should this work?

[Ranos]

Does this work by RAW ? No.
Would I allow this as a DM ? Hell yes.

[Prodan]

It shouldn't be easy, but I guess possible in theory.

[Fax Celestis]

I think no more need to be said than this.

[Snake-Aes]

If you ready an action to create an obstacle for the bead, then sure why not? It says in the description that it will detonate prematurely if it hits something solid.

[Ravens_cry]

If you ready an action to create an obstacle for the bead, then sure why not? It says in the description that it will detonate prematurely if it hits something solid.

That would mean taking a fireball in the teeth, though.

[Lev]

That would mean taking a fireball in the teeth, though.

Not necessarily, what if you hit it with your shield bash?

Incoming!

Reflex save? Who needs a reflex save? *whaaaBOOOSH!*

Direct Quote

Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
Material Component

A tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur.

I'd count the bead as a projectile shot personally, it's got all the properties of a ranged projectile. The standard homebrew to my knowledge is to allow using a readied action to deflect a projectile by making a touch attack with what you are deflecting it with against the attack roll of the projectile.
As for a fireball, I'm not sure how you would calculate it, but it would probably be 3+castingstat+1d20
Though you COULD deflect or manipulate a fireball bead, once it hits something (possibly just impeding it could set it off), it explodes and would sunder anything you used to deflect it with intense heat-- silver or bronze shields would melt ONTO you and since the spell says it keeps going after it melts or sunders an object it would probably deal full damage to you in addition.

[valadil]

It can work. I've heard of players trying to shoot a fireball past unknown, invisible enemies only to have the bead strike the invisible foes. That seems legit.

Blocking it intentionally seems weird though. The thing is, you'd have to ready an attack specifically against fireball. I feel like you'd be better off readying against a spell being cast and then hitting the caster to disrupt.

[Chrono22]

I'd say OK, but it would require a readied or immediate action, and the AC would be for a fine object (18). I already allow ranged maneuvers, so expending wall of blades with a thrown dagger or other held object would work fine.
Yes it makes fireballs weaker. I like that.

[true_shinken]

Basically means that if you use wings of cover against a fireball, people around you still take damage...

[Snake-Aes]

Definitely, but at least you guarantee it'll explode ahead of your cover, and your cover will protect whatever is in the radius your cover blocked. people Immediately behind you would be safe.

[balistafreak]

Definitely, but at least you guarantee it'll explode ahead of your cover, and your cover will protect whatever is in the radius your cover blocked. people Immediately behind you would be safe.

But wait:

Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

I thought cover/corners didn't protect well against spreads? (They can shorten the radius in certain positions, but hiding behind a small 5-foot section of wall is useless.)

[Lev]

Would effects like a floating shield of force also provide cover vs the bead then too? There are some spells which automatically try and intercept attacks.

[Snake-Aes]

Aww damn, I could swear it was a burst. Stupid PHB illustrations.

Well, I'll still hurl stuff at it as a readied action just to spite the casters if I can anyway.

Would effects like a floating shield of force also provide cover vs the bead then too? There are some spells which automatically try and intercept attacks.

No, spreads ignore cover. Bursts and Emanations would be Covered, though.

[PId6]

Basically means that if you use wings of cover against a fireball, people around you still take damage...

You'll still take damage too, because Fireball's radius acts as a spread, and spreads get around cover.

Bah, ninjas!

[Snake-Aes]

You'll still take damage too, because Fireball's radius acts as a spread, and spreads get around cover.

Bah, ninjas!

Ninjas are so 3.0
Swordsages are better.

[balistafreak]

Well, I'll still hurl stuff at it as a readied action just to spite the casters if I can anyway.

The question is where it gets intercepted, of course:

• Right in front of you. (Pointless.)
• In the middle somewhere, exploding harmlessly. (Action vs. action and spell. Okay.)
• In their face. (Oh yes.)

Somehow I get the feeling that a readied action to cast a Wall of Something Solid right in front of their faces would make a great counterspell.

... actually, seeing as that would block line of effect, it'd basically counter anything.

Fireballs exploding in their faces would be a bonus.

[Fax Celestis]

Somehow I get the feeling that a readied action to cast a Wall of Something Solid right in front of their faces would make a great counterspell.

Wall of force is deliciously invisible. So is resilient/telekinetic sphere.

[Lev]

Aww damn, I could swear it was a burst. Stupid PHB illustrations.

Well, I'll still hurl stuff at it as a readied action just to spite the casters if I can anyway.



No, spreads ignore cover. Bursts and Emanations would be Covered, though.

Please enlighten me, I make it my business to know a great deal about fire.
Does the fire magically explode then curve around the cover like some sort of sentient gas monster, or does it follow the logic that the expanding fire pushes the cover backwards and down enough that it kind of ramps and jets off the cover causing it to napalm downwards?

[Snake-Aes]

Please enlighten me, I make it my business to know a great deal about fire.
Does the fire magically explode then curve around the cover like some sort of sentient gas monster, or does it follow the logic that the expanding fire pushes the cover backwards and down enough that it kind of ramps and jets off the cover causing it to napalm downwards?

Spreads behave like gas: they expand within the reach of the container, rolling around anything that doesn't block off the other side completely. "Container" would be the area of effect, and cover doesn't block line of effect(like a wall greater than the spell's area of effect) so it is ignored.


With burst/emanation spells, cover stops the effect, so the radii behind the cover would be clear. There's no ruling to what happens to the blocked damage so for simplicity's sake we just say it's wasted.

[PId6]

Somehow I get the feeling that a readied action to cast a Wall of Something Solid right in front of their faces would make a great counterspell.

Better yet, instead of readied action, use the more reliable Synchonicity. If they try to cast Fireball, manifest Wall of Ectoplasm in front of their face. If they try to cast anything else, manifest Energy Missile and blast their face off instead.

Can also be done with more cheese through Celerity or Anticipatory Strike.

[balistafreak]

Energy Missile? Please, Energy Stun. 2d6 damage is far less potent than a chance to stun.

[Snake-Aes]

Why not go for fortitude and teleport the guy's brain off his head?

[PId6]

Why not go for fortitude and teleport the guy's brain off his head?

Because if he succeeds on the save, nothing happens. With direct damage, you'll have a very good chance of stopping the spell even if he saves.

[Snake-Aes]

Hmm, excellent point. Grasping Hand it is for that level then.

[arrowhen]

Nah, I wouldn't bother messing with it. It's just fireball, for Gawd's sake. It's not like it's an overpowered spell. If anything, because it's such an iconic spell it's probably one of the spells that arcane casters are balanced around.

If someone wanted to really press the issue and prepare a readied action to intercept the "pea", I'd allow an attack roll against it at AC 18 (because it's at least "Fine") + the caster's BAB + Dex mod (since the caster would need to make a ranged touch attack to get the "pea" through a narrow opening, it seems reasonable that they've put that much aim on it) to intercept it -- at the closest possible point to the interceptor.

[Gralamin]

About two years ago, this same question came up. Due to the "Striking Solid matter" part, it would only be logical that, yes, it can be intercepted.

First, you must make a DC 18 Spellcraft check to identify the spell being cast is Fireball (Unless a skill trick is being used, or certain metamagic feats such as Silent and still). Then you must have already had a readied action to attack the bead, or move into its range.

Moving into the range is simple: You move in front, and hope he was aiming in that direction.

Attacking is a bit harder: Its a Fine sized object ("Peasized"), without any Dexterity score, etc. This means its AC is calculated as: 10 +8 (size) +0 (Ability Bonus) = 18. However, due to how the readied actions work (They interrupt the action - including the beads movement), this will allow you to choose a square in its path to blow up in, depending on your readied trigger.

Moreover, it can be fired from anywhere between 600 to 2400 ft away - which you should be attacking from if you are using fireball. In which case you need to make a Spot check at a -60 to -240 modifier to even spot the wizard firing it.

Good luck.

[Thespianus]

What about ... *drumroll* ... Prestidigitation, this King of Cantrips?

If you have Prestidigitation cast on yourself, you can move small objects without touching them. Granted, the radius is 10 ft, so it might be of limited use in this case.

[Gralamin]

What about ... *drumroll* ... Prestidigitation, this King of Cantrips?

If you have Prestidigitation cast on yourself, you can move small objects without touching them. Granted, the radius is 10 ft, so it might be of limited use in this case.

You would have to ready an action to move it. And if your that close, you will still be in the blast range. Not very useful

[FelixG]

Moreover, it can be fired from anywhere between 600 to 2400 ft away - which you should be attacking from if you are using fireball. In which case you need to make a Spot check at a -60 to -240 modifier to even spot the wizard firing it.

Good luck.

most combat takes place alot closer than that, so if a sniper is going after you, yes your pretty screwed :P

and as a general rule unless the person or item is specifically hiding you dont need to spot them, you can just see em. Look up trying to spot the sun for reference :P