Dwarf's racial traits tweak.

[Hurlbut]

Would replacing the racial trait that give +4 dodge bonus against creature of giant type with a racial trait that give a flat +2 dodge bonus to AC be a fair exchange? When considering a background in which dwarves have not faced giants?

[Yeturs]

I would say no, that's a pretty huge upgrade. I would say... Mabey a +1 to ac vs magic, reflecting there antimagical nature? That is, gain +1 dodge bonus against magic weapons and the like, as well as magic touch attacks.

Mabey make that a +2 if you like, by that's what I would do for my dwarves in your situation

[Hurlbut]

Well I based the tweak on Pathfinder Bestiary's Svirfneblin's Defensive Training. Which is really the same thing.

[Snake-Aes]

My problem with dwarves is that they have too many near-useless abilities. Change the +4 dodge against giants to, say, +2 dodge against creatures bigger than you.

[Fax Celestis]

My problem with dwarves is that they have too many near-useless abilities. Change the +4 dodge against giants to, say, +2 dodge against creatures bigger than you.

There's a feat from Races of Stone called Titanfighting. Changes your racial bonus against giants to a racial bonus against creatures larger than you. So it's worth about a feat, imo.

[KillianHawkeye]

You probably shouldn't change a highly situational bonus like that into a bonus that is always applicable. I like the idea of at least limiting it to creatures of Large size or larger.

[Snake-Aes]

The gist is to pick a bunch of abilities and meld them into something of less power but broader use, like this AC. "Worth a feat" is rather dubious as "worth a feat" includes both Dodge and, say, Master Spellthief.

[Fax Celestis]

The gist is to pick a bunch of abilities and meld them into something of less power but broader use, like this AC. "Worth a feat" is rather dubious as "worth a feat" includes both Dodge and, say, Master Spellthief.

"Worth a feat that I would consider taking without it being a prerequisite".

[PId6]

It would be a huge upgrade to get even +1 flat AC bonus vs everything than +4 vs giants. Honestly, you can remove that +4 completely and I wouldn't even care much. Dwarves are already good enough that they really don't need the boost.

[awa]

think of it this way how many giants do you see in a game if 50% of the enemies have the giant type that is one nice ability if you have encountered only one or two then its not worth as much.

[Hurlbut]

*sigh* I specifically pointed out the Svirfneblin's Defensive Training trait which is basically +2 dodge bonus to AC. Did you guys really not notice my follow up post?

[Fax Celestis]

*sigh* I specifically pointed out the Svirfneblin's Defensive Training trait which is basically +2 dodge bonus to AC. Did you guys really not notice my follow up post?

Svirfneblins also have LA +3.

[Dr.Epic]

Would replacing the racial trait that give +4 dodge bonus against creature of giant type with a racial trait that give a flat +2 dodge bonus to AC be a fair exchange? When considering a background in which dwarves have not faced giants?

+2 ac bonus for any type of creature? That's a little overpowered.

[Superglucose]

There's a feat from Races of Stone called Titanfighting. Changes your racial bonus against giants to a racial bonus against creatures larger than you. So it's worth about a feat, imo.

I'm not sure that's a particularly good feat tbh. By the time you reach the point where most things you're fighting are a size category larger than you, +4 to AC won't make much of a difference.

[PId6]

*sigh* I specifically pointed out the Svirfneblin's Defensive Training trait which is basically +2 dodge bonus to AC. Did you guys really not notice my follow up post?

Svirfneblin do have lots of racial ability penalties to balance out the +2 AC. PF also has inherently more powerful races in comparison to 3.5 (which most of us would assume is what you're talking about without an indicator somewhere). That said, those svirfneblin do look incredibly good for an LA +0 race (assuming I understand PF's system of monster PCs correctly). Many classes don't care at all about the Cha penalty, and they get nice bonuses such as +2 AC, +2 to all saves, SR, and great vision.

I'm not sure that's a particularly good feat tbh. By the time you reach the point where most things you're fighting are a size category larger than you, +4 to AC won't make much of a difference.

I wouldn't take it for dwarves, but it's a nice feat on gnomes. You'll likely fight very few foes of Small size or smaller, so right from the start it applies to nearly everything. It is a bit limited though, since it requires Dodge and only works on one target at a time, but the AC bonus is big enough to be worth it.

[Andion Isurand]

Lesser Svirfneblins (PGF p191) get a +1 dodge bonus to AC against all creatures...

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules...ndex-Races.pdf on page 19.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm not sure that's a particularly good feat tbh. By the time you reach the point where most things you're fighting are a size category larger than you, +4 to AC won't make much of a difference.

It's +4 dodge, so it applies to touch AC as well, which is a slightly bigger deal.

[Fitz10019]

Consider a druid Dwarf who can take an animal form that is small size. Then he's +1 for Small, and +4 v. Medium and up. Though, druids are a bit feat-starved to take both Dodge and Titanfighting.

Reduce Person? Gauntlets of Giantfelling?

Edit: just read the feat -- it +4 AC applies only to whomever you apply your dodge bonus to. It's not +4AC v. everyone. I'm sure Fax knows this, but I didn't gather it until I read the feat.

[Haarkla]

Would replacing the racial trait that give +4 dodge bonus against creature of giant type with a racial trait that give a flat +2 dodge bonus to AC be a fair exchange? When considering a background in which dwarves have not faced giants?

No. It is hugely overpowered.

[Optimystik]

It's +4 dodge, so it applies to touch AC as well, which is a slightly bigger deal.

It also stacks with everything and their mother, keeping it relevant at all levels.

[Evard]

No its not overpowered! Why? I'm sure you will run into more traps and casters than big things swinging sticks* at you if you had that for a racial ability

Player: "yay i have +2 to all my defenses"
DM: All the melee enemies miss you so the casters in the back are worried about your power so they blast you with X spell... No there is no attack roll ...

*trees

[Optimystik]

Player: "yay i have +2 to all my defenses"
DM: All the melee enemies miss you so the casters in the back are worried about your power so they blast you with X spell... No there is no attack roll ...

Every melee that tries to hit him and misses is a wasted action by the enemy. Even if the casters decide to focus on him after that, he's already won the action game. In fact, if the casters focus fire him and still can't take him down (dwarves have nice saves) then the action gap grows even further.

[Evard]

There are plenty of spells that don't give you a save and no not all of them will destroy the character.

Action game really only matters if you are a super optimized wizard (or facing one) that can end the encounter before it starts or within a round..


Just get rid of the giants part, make the dwarf small (but keep everything else the same) and that would be the easiest way to do this