Mental Challenge

[FallenWarriorIV]

I've recently started GMing for my group and I've discovered they love mental challenges. I put them up against anything from a moving maze to a new riddle and they just eat it up. Unfortunately, I'm running out of ideas. I've got riddles fairly well covered, but the mental puzzles are getting harder and harder to come up with. I'm looking for any new ideas you might have. Preemptive thanks!

[Prodan]

A room with a door opposite the entrance and a lever in the middle.

The lever is a dud. See how long it takes them to figure it out.

[FallenWarriorIV]

This is the same group that spent an hour of real time trying to push a door open. It was an unlocked pull door.

[Eronai_Jantig]

This is the same group that spent an hour of real time trying to push a door open. It was an unlocked pull door.

Thats just mean. :P

[Lhurgyof]

How about this: A lock that appeares to be unlocked when it is in fact locked, and vice-versa.

Or, Rajaat's Pyramid. It's an inverted Ziggurat with 13 floors. Each floor is devoid of a certain element. (The elements in this game were Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Sun, Silt, Rain, Magma, Magic, Shadow, Mind, Spirit, and Time)
You can change what things each floor is devoid of, but anything entering said floor of said type is snuffed out.

[FallenWarriorIV]

Wouldn't the no air or water levels instantly kill any of the players? The magic items for breathing wouldn't work or they'd take massive dessication damage.

[Lhurgyof]

Wouldn't the no air or water levels instantly kill any of the players? The magic items for breathing wouldn't work or they'd take massive dessication damage.

Hey, this is a dungeon meant for really high level characters. Dark Sun is meant to go to level 60, and the DM was running it with super high levels (50-60, maybe all at 60) and they couldn't make it, he told me. You can always change it to suit your needs. Maybe have a floor without gold, or something like that. Just a suggestion, as at those high levels it becomes more thinking and roleplaying than rolling and fighting. xD

[FallenWarriorIV]

That's a pretty decent idea, thank you.

[FallenWarriorIV]

How hard would it be to have an adventure based on the seven deadly sins? And for each room they failed, the end boss would have another buff?

[Prodan]

Mmm. Lust.

[Cespenar]

How about this: A lock that appeares to be unlocked when it is in fact locked, and vice-versa.

Or, Rajaat's Pyramid. It's an inverted Ziggurat with 13 floors. Each floor is devoid of a certain element. (The elements in this game were Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Sun, Silt, Rain, Magma, Magic, Shadow, Mind, Spirit, and Time)
You can change what things each floor is devoid of, but anything entering said floor of said type is snuffed out.

What does "no Mind" mean anyway? Or "no Spirit" or "no Time"?

[gorfnab]

Maybe you could borrow some things from the Tomb of Horrors 3.5? It's filled with all sorts of traps and puzzles. Warning, the original and revised versions of this have been known to TPK a lot, not from powerful monsters but from player stupidity.

[Dust]

Obtain Grimtooth's Traps. The whole series. Flip through them for inspiration - I find puzzles come naturally when used as a way to avoid traps.

For example, imagine a lage, circular room with a glass roof that leads to the outside, where it is bright and midday. The trick is that hidden in the 'glass' roof is an enormous lens, which amplifies the sun's rays a la magnifying glass in an invisible beam to the room below. As the sun sloowwwwwwly move across the sky, the invisible beam moves in arcing patterns across the room. Include some normally nonlethal monsters - say, goblins - who have lived here long enough to know how to avoid the beam, and also how to use it for their own purposes to fend off intruders.

That's the trap.

The mental challenge aspect should be a clue to the trap's otherwise difficulty-to-discern nature. Perhaps engraved in stone outside the room are the words 'Pelor's judgement comes to all within, good and evil both," or somesuch.

And it comes with a myriad of ways to solve the puzzle. Break the glass roof with a spell or an attack of sufficent power, perhaps. Figure out how the invisible beam is moving and use it to their own advantage - maybe a fighter could use a metal shield to deflect the beam and OMGLASER an unsuspecting goblin foe. It's memorable and fun, and the players will feel as though they really aced the 'mental' encounter....which is nothing more than a trap with some fiendish addons.

[Wings of Peace]

Players are put into a scenario in which both answers are wrong.

Example: The players awaken/walk into zone 1, they explore it for awhile and fall into zone 2, after interaction with both something or someone informs them that they're trapped in a loop between two out of phase planes and that the only way back is to die in the plane that is more out of touch with 'reality'. The trick being that both planes are actually out of phase, and so they have to die in both.

Not very well written but the idea is there. Give them a scenario in which both answers are wrong and until they realize this they're just trapping themselves in an ever complicating scenario. Sort of like a maze that loops on itself, so the only way out is to break down the walls.

[Serpentine]

Gee, that one sounds familiar... Doctor.

See this, and then critique it for me because I'm going to run it soon and need to know if I've done anything wrong.

[Vantharion]

I'm a huge fan of riddles myself.

Long poem talking about a specific order of some gems (Which actually is solvable) (Give assorted gems)
And end the poem with something to the effect of 'Smash but a single gem and it will be the last you ever see of this room'. Players might interpret the smashing of the gems will gain a punishment when in will be a way to open the door.

Large immaculately clean room. Describe it in the spookiest and most tension filled way possible. This is the best room to use when the players are tired, exhausted and low on spells. The room really just has a heavy daily cleaning enchantment (monsters prefer to avoid it).

I once had a hallway completely filled with traps for my Cleric (Kord was his god). He resorted to crouching and hitting in front of him with his Crowbar and flying a few dispel magics. He had no way to disarm the actual traps aside from expending them. (One of the traps was an entire ballista popping out of the floor to shoot him with a fireball.) At the end of the hallway was his Magical crafted spear (Think test of proving). He had to completely faithfully touch the spear, no gloves, no protection, it wouldn't move otherwise.

The best way to construct a mental challenge is so: Present things in a manner that the players will suspect something, and have that something be untrue. If you never actually TELL them that things are a particular way, and they are required to unthink they're suspicions.

[FallenWarriorIV]

The Grimtooth books don't appear to be for sale anymore, but I did find some of the PDFs lying around. Oh. My. God. I'm barely halfway through the Dungeon of Doom and I'm loving it! Thank you soo much for recommending this, Dust.

WoP, That's a great idea. I'm not sure they're up to plane-hopping just yet, but I could always pull the old two paths with the guardians. One tells lies and one tells the truth, except both lie and there's a secret exit. Or something, I dunno.

Serpentine, that dungeon is devilish and confusing. Just enough combat to keep it fun for the hack'n'smashers too. Would you mind terribly if I used most or all of it for another adventure?

That's a new way to think about it, Vantharion. It's kind of like the children's riddle, I have two coins that equal six cents and one is not a penny. The one that isn't a penny is the nickel.

[FallenWarriorIV]

Actually, I used this riddle on my group last session. Was hoping to get some feedback on it.

The first is fine throughout nine lives.
The second is in the heart of alarm.
The third weaves locks of golden thread and is found upon the roosters head.

[Abies]

Actually, I used this riddle on my group last session. Was hoping to get some feedback on it.

The first is fine throughout nine lives.
The second is in the heart of alarm.
The third weaves locks of golden thread and is found upon the roosters head.

Not bad for a really quick riddle. I'm not 100% certain abut the third clue, is "weaves" the best word for what you're trying to express?

[FallenWarriorIV]

The answer is Catacomb. I didn't think weaves was a poor word choice. Although I'm open to better suggestions.

[Abies]

A comb really does not weave. I'm not really certain how to describe what it does... Straightens? Parts? Parts might be good, it may lead to some confusion as to the meaning of "locks" in the riddle. Unfortunately the second part about the rooster's head give the whole thing away, no need for the first clue in the third line.

[FallenWarriorIV]

Actually, that's what messed them up. They were convinced that it was called a crown, and proceeded to ask the king if his crown was cursed. I have smart players.

[Abies]

I have smart players.

I got that from the anecdote of them being stymied by an unlocked door for an hour.

[Lhurgyof]

What does "no Mind" mean anyway? Or "no Spirit" or "no Time"?

The element of the mind is Psionics. So on that floor there'd be no psionics at all.

Spirit is just what you think, all living things would be snuffed out, unless they found a way to get their spirit across without going through.

No time? That one should be easy.

As I said, it was a dungeon for super beyond epic level characters.

[Serpentine]

Serpentine, that dungeon is devilish and confusing. Just enough combat to keep it fun for the hack'n'smashers too. Would you mind terribly if I used most or all of it for another adventure?

Whoops, missed this, sorry. Hope it's not too late... No I don't mind, but critique it!
Unless that is your critique, in which case, score