Help me build an Orc Army! [3.5]

[Human Paragon 3]

The next arc in my campaign is beginning. A new cult has taken power in the north and they are raising an army. Yeah, they're evil, but they pay is good, and the benefits include eternal life in the next world.

As part of their army-building initiative, they'll be recruiting a sizable army of Orcs, and I want them to be cool and memorable! These aren't some piddly 1 HD or horde meant to be slaughtered by the PCs. These are a hard group of mercanaries, monstrous killers with class levels, heavily armed and armored and hungry for battle. The army has special significance because their leader is the evil half brother of one of the half-orc PCs.

I want them to be intimidating and dangerous even in smaller numbers, and I am looking for build advice.

My PCs are level 5, and I want the orcs to remain a threat up to level... 8?

Aard, the leader, and his lieutenants should be full, mid level builds. Maybe with Orc Paragon levels. The others can be more generic (100 level 2 orc fighter pikeman, for example). Looking for feat and class suggestions to make a formidable force that strikes fear into the hearts of even seasoned warriors.

[Quietus]

I'd start by making the average "grunt" a first-level Barbarian, with all the benefits available to PC's. This doesn't do a great deal to the stat block (in fact, all it really does is give them fast movement and illiteracy), but it also provides Rage 1/day. And as grunts? You only need 1/day. With 16 con in a rage, they've got 15 HP; At level 5, your PCs may not be able to cut through that in one shot. Alternatively, if they can, then you could give the "grunts" a further level of Fighter; This makes them rise to 18 HP (20 in a rage), and gives them another feat to play with. Power Attack can be nice, but for that real Berserker flavor, you could go Endurance/Diehard. Alternatively, have the occasional one that has higher Dex than normal pick up two-weapon fighting and trade out Fast Movement for Pounce. Your basic 2-handed grunt Barbarian1/Fighter1 is then looking at 20 HP in a rage, with attacks of +7 melee (weapon+7 damage). If your PCs chop through 20 HP quickly, then give them Endurance and Diehard; Now they have to go through 30 HP to take down that foaming berserker. With their attacks, they won't do TOO much damage individually, but enough to cost the party a few HP here and there.

From there, determine if you want the lieutenants to be equal with the PCs, or if you'd rather they be a challenge as a group. Also, do you want the lieutenants to have a particular feel to them, or just stronger versions of "screaming berserker" orc grunts?

[Human Paragon 3]

I think the Lieutenants should be close to the PC's level, so that a group of Orc Lieutenants the same size as the party is a difficult challenge. Aard, the leader, can be higher, but I want him to be beatable in a 1-on-1 vs. the Half-Orc Warblade, which may just mean more levels but poorer optimization. For example, three levels of Orc paragon aren't nearly as good as 3 levels of Warblade. Maybe something like Org Paragon 3/Fighter 4/Crusader 1. A serious challenge, but mostly because of his BAB, HP and a few odd maneuvers. Vs. a level 5-8 warblade, should be an interesting match up.

The other lieutenants... maybe level 5 or 6?

[AslanCross]

If you're using Tome of Battle, a lot of great options can be opened up. Fielding elite berserkers with Bloodstorm Blade levels would be quite memorable.

[Human Paragon 3]

A couple martial study feats are OK but I don't want actual TOB characters. It's too hard to track all their maneuvers.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Throw a mix of these guys at em, coordination and stacking Intimidate checks will make them a serious threat even in the higher levels:

CR 2 (dangerous thuggish brutes): Orc Wolf-Totem Barbarian 2, Intimidating Rage (CW), Flaw: Vulnerable, Knock-Down, Menacing Demeanor (via Otyugh Hole, call it a rite of passage), they get Improved Trip as a bonus feat. Give them high Str and Con and max HP, make Wisdom their next highest stat for Will saves and spot/listen, with max ranks in Intimidate. Masterwork chain shirt, masterwork armor spikes, masterwork falchion, four potions of Cure Light Wounds.

CR 3 (experienced tactical soldiers): Orc Warblade 3, Power Attack (aggressive) or Stone Power (defensive), Martial Study: Crusader Strike, Menacing Demeanor (via Otyugh Hole, call it a rite of passage). Stance: (aggressive) Hunter's Sense or (defensive) Bolstering Voice; Maneuvers Known: Sudden Leap, Steel Wind, Leading the Attack, Stone Bones, Crusader's Strike, and (aggressive) Battle Leader's Charge or (defensive) Mountain Hammer. Maneuvers Readied (aggressive): Battle Leader's Charge, Steel Wind, Crusader's Strike; (defensive): Mountain Hammer, Stone Bones, Crusader's Strike. Give them fairly decent Str, Dex, Con, and Int, with max ranks in Intimidate. Masterwork Breastplate, Masterwork Armor Spikes, Masterwork Glaive, Cloak of Resistance +1, three Thunderstones, four potions of Cure Light Wounds.

CR 4 (heavy elite): Orc Psychic Warrior 4, Shield Specialization: Heavy (PH2), Focused Shield (RoS/CP), Shield Ward (PH2), Mental Juggernaut (CP). Powers Known: Thicken Skin, Prevenom Weapon, Float, Damp Power (CP). Put high scores in Con, Wis, and Str, nothing else really even matters, with max ranks in Concentration. Full Plate, Masterwork Heavy Steel Shield, Masterwork Deep Crystal Warhammer or Battleaxe (50% either), Cognizance Crystals (1 point), three Pearl, Brain Lock, four potions of Cure Light Wounds.

[AslanCross]

A couple martial study feats are OK but I don't want actual TOB characters. It's too hard to track all their maneuvers.

Well, Bloodstorm Blade doesn't really need maneuvers (it doesn't even give maneuver progression) apart from requirements. It's mostly designed to be a "throwing=melee" class. As in "Did that orc just throw a spiked chain to trip me?"

[Thinker]

I recommend the following:

• Orc brutes with levels of Barbarian and Fighter with Power Attack. These are the shock troopers.
• Orc phalanx with levels of Knight (re-flavor the abilities if you have to, but make them good at battlefield control). These are the heavy infantry of the group.
• Orc scouts with levels of Scout and Ranger. These are the skirmishers and ranged support for the mercenaries and melee versions can provide flexible light fighters.
• Orc priests with levels of Cleric and Druid. These are the divine support. They cast from wands as necessary and generally buff the rest of the group.

Mix and match these as appropriate for the conflict at hand.

[Human Paragon 3]

Oh, forgot to mention, this is coming off of encounters with a roving group of knights, and I don't want the encounters to be too similar. Here's the thread with descriptions of the old units: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149182

[Marnath]

Maybe have some orcish archers too? You could have some goblin and/or kobold slaves to drive ahead as fodder to give them a few free shots at the PC's. Not to mention the trappy goodness kobold slaves can give you.



*edit "them" being the archers, not the slaves

[Human Paragon 3]

What feats would you give to an Orc Archer to make them feel like an Orc Archer, not just an arhcer?

Possibly use the whilring frenzy barbarian variant to get a bonus to Str and Dex, and give composite short bows?

[Marnath]

Hmm, feats. Maybe Mountain warrior from Races of stone? +1 to attack whenever you hold the higher ground. Or Deadeye Shot from Races of stone, you ready an action to shoot when your ally hits them in melee, and you ignore their dex bonus to AC. Also, maybe you feel like giving them Great Crossbow proficiency for free, perhaps reflavoring it as an Orcish Crossbow? If you do that, probably give them rapid shot.

[mcl01]

Adding in some tribal orc bards with masterwork drums would be cool. MW drums, bard, and give them the inspirational boost spell, and all their fellow orcs get +3 to attack/damage from a level 2 orc bard. It's a nice force multiplier.

Give them all the diehard feat. An additional +10 hp for them to play with.

Instead of archers, could I convince you to make orcs with the throw anything feat, combined with brutal throw?

Raging orc barbarians with the intimidating rage feat. Strike fear into their hearts!

[Ernir]

What feats would you give to an Orc Archer to make them feel like an Orc Archer, not just an arhcer?

Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Orc Shotput.

Kinda crap, but you can always add more orcs to compensate. The beauty of being the DM.

[Human Paragon 3]

Orc shot put are among the sillier things wotc has dreamed up. Thrown spears would be more effective, non?

[Marnath]

Yeah, shotput is silly. Spears though... Ooh! I know! Javelin throwers with brutal throw. O.o ooh, give them fling ally too so they can throw the kobolds!

[Ernir]

Orc shot put are among the sillier things wotc has dreamed up. Thrown spears would be more effective, non?

Spears might be more effective, but they don't offer as many opportunities to make jokes about orcish engineering as the shotputs do.

[Lyndworm]

I'd make elite warriors to fight level 5 PCs as Fighter 3/Barbarian 1. Feats are Power Attack, Shield and Pike Style, Combat Reflexes, and Shorten Grip. When the PCs level up, add a level of Barbarian. At 7th level add another level of Fighter and the feats Double Team and Formation Expert. Make sure to outfit them all with Light Shields and Piercing Polearms or the feats won't work like they're supposed to.


I'd just make the Horde Barbarian 1/Fighter 1, with another fighter level at level 7. Give Power Attack and Weapon Focus: Greataxe, and when the other Fighter level comes in give Extend Rage and Reckless Rage.


Make sure that the elites fight as a team and you're golden.

[Human Paragon 3]

I haven't seen many of those feats. Shield and pike style? Double team?

[akma]

As part of their army-building initiative, they'll be recruiting a sizable army of Orcs, and I want them to be cool and memorable!

Besides effective fighting abilities and stratagy, I think you should also focus on making them look and feel diffrent.
For exemple, maybe they wear armours with a unique colour or symbol, and use weapons that aren`t used by a stereotypical orc army.
Also, how many leuitenents are there? If just a few, I think you should make each one a bit unique, with a trick (like a poisoned dagger in addition to his regular weapon, for exemple), and maybe even give each one a name and personelity.

[Marnath]

Also, what kind of orcs are you using? Default? one of the elemental or regional ones from UA? the Faerun setting has a few nasty ones if i remember, Orogs and mountain orcs. I don't have the book anymore but i remember them being awesome. I second the suggestion that the lieutenants be unique with names and personalities.

This is depending on what races live in the region and what race the pc's are, but for one i'm thinking:

Grom-who-is-the-hand-of-(BBEG name here)
Fighter X/ranger 1
Gnome(or something else) favored enemy
Heavy Armor and a Greataxe....you lose your ranger combat line, but you keep favored enemy boost in armor right? Give him a +1 Bane weapon with some sort of harsh sounding fantasy name like F'han (thats "death" in ogre.)

idk, just something quick, it would be better if i had time

[Snake-Aes]

How much variation will there be? Is it an army of hats or faceless masses?
so far Biffoniacus_Furiou's idea pleased me the most, although psychic warriors can be more of a dip instead of the entire class...but really it works either way.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want some archer-types, add the following:

CR 4 (javelineers): Orc Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 1, Brutal Throw (CV), TWF (style), Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Quick Draw. High Str/Con, decent Dex, make Wis at least 11, high ranks in Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Spot, and Survival. Masterwork Chain Shirt, Masterwork Armor Razors (identical stats to spikes but slashing), Forestwarden Shroud (RotW under armors), twelve Javelins, Wand of Entangle (12 charges), two potions Cure Light Wounds.

CR 4/EL 5 (skirmishers): Orc Fighter 4, Flaw: Noncombatant, Weapon Focus: Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Weapon Specialization: Longbow. High Dex and Str, max ranks in Ride, 5+ ranks in Handle Animal for a synergy bonus. Light Warhorse with chain shirt barding and military saddle, Masterwork Breastplate, Masterwork Composite Longbow (appropriate Str bonus), fifty arrows, ten silver arrows, ten cold iron arrows, ten +1 arrows, three potions Protection from Arrows (CL 3), three potions Cure Light Wounds. They take no penalty to ranged attacks if the mount makes a single move, and only a -2 if it makes a double move. They should always try to keep at least 200 feet between themselves and their opponents. These should be encountered in groups of 2-6 without any other types of opponents, or possibly used to hunt down fleeing opponents and as an escort for supply trains.

[Marnath]

Nice work biff That looks a lot better than it would if i had gone to the effort of statting them up, glad i didn't bother.

[AdamSmasher]

I would say that, for classes, it will be hard to go wrong with using a base of Barbarian 1/Fighter 2. You can cut that down as you see fit.

You might use the Fighter variant that gives sneak attack. That way, they're still brawlers but they work well in teams by flanking.

Throw clusters of the level 3 grunts at your level 5 PCs, have them use smart tactics. Maybe use some Barbarian grapplers, possibly using Monk if you're okay with reflavoring. They grab and immobilize PCs while the others cut them up.

Maybe put a Warchanter in each group, a Barbarian 1/Bard 1/Crusader 1. He can heal someone for two damage each time he makes a successful attack using the Devoted Spirit stance gained at 1st level. He makes the group stronger and is still formidable himself. If you want, make him a level higher and add Fighter for combat ability or Dragon Shaman to have his fury-inspiring presence make his orcs push through their greivous wounds (Fast healing up to half health).

Make sure your Orcs carry crossbows and use smart tactics, badgering the PCs from ledges and advantageous positions with crossbow bolts to soften them up. This is IMPORTANT. Read up on Tucker's Kobolds. You can make weak enemies in to dangerous threats just by using tactics.



For the bigger, badder enemies? Read up on Tome of Battle. Make them Warblades and Crusaders. They'll be dangerous, memorable opponents who don't rely on ubercharging and wiping a PC out on the first attack. Give them double or triple the max HP for their level. PCs tend to be glass cannons, so anyone high enough level to beat them is just going to straight up murder them. Making something weaker with a ton of HP makes for a longer, more interesting combat. Rocket Tag doesn't make for good boss fights. And find some way to keep your PCs from just using Fly to get away from him. Make the fight be indoors, and have the boss auto-succeed on any Save or Lose/Die spells. That, or just make the wizard blow fly earlier in the day.

[Greenish]

"Meathooks": Orc seeker-killers with distinctive weapons.

Barbarian 1: EWP: Hook Sword, Run, pounce
Ranger 1: Track
Ranger 2: TWF, Fleet of Foot


Goblin Cavalry: mounted on wolves (or worgs), not here to save the day.

Fighter1: Power Attack, Mounted Combat
Fighter2: Ride-by-Attack
Fighter3: Spirited Charge
Fighter4: Improved Buckler Defense

[Deth Muncher]

I present you with this, compliments of myself and Solo.

The WAAAGH Lord

Spoiler

Show

Half Orc Barbarian 3/Fighter4/Half Orc Paragon 3/Frenzied Berserker 10
1: Extra Rage
2: Power Attack
3: Destructive Rage
5: Cleave
6: Intimidating Rage
9: Instantanious Rage
12: Imperious Command
15: Leadership
18: Might Makes Right

ACFs:
Barbarian: Spirit Lion Totem, Wolf Totem, Trap Killer
Fighter: Resolute ACF

Items:

Breastplate of Command
Fearsome armor enchantment
Cloak of Charisma
Circlet of Pusuasion
Pale Green Ioun Stone
Stone of Good Luck

[awa]

i don't know much about tome of battle so i cant give you any specifics but when i make a special enemy designed to be dueled by a particular pc i typically designed them to be particularly vulnerable to that pcs fighting style and particularly strong against the other pcs.

This might be harder to pull off if the pcs combat styles are to similar.

personally i would avoid pike formations for the orcs unless your altering orc culture it just doesn't seem very orc like to me.

Orcs riding mammoths would pose a potent threat to even high level characters.

edit
i disagree that you should use tukers kobold tactics with orcs i feel that's better with enemies known for sneakiness. but i agree that if you have a martial boss your planning on having the entire party beat on give them a lot of hit points, its no fun being one shoted trust me ive never met a person who likes their character killed with a single blow so avoid things like leap attack.

also the waghh lord is a bit higher level then i think hes asking for.

[Deth Muncher]

also the waghh lord is a bit higher level then i think hes asking for.

Oh, he most certainly is. However, that's not to say such an NPC shouldn't exist. Say, for example, that this is a former leader of the Orcs that the PCs recruit. They might mention him, and through some sort of quest, he might be attainable as an ally at higher levels, should the campaign continue. Further, he could be scaled back to fit the level challenge as necessary.

[BooNL]

The lieutenants should have at least 2 ranks in Marshal. The To Hit and Flanking boni can be pretty useful to a large mob of mooks.

As for the orcs themselves, remember that even at 5th level every hit taken hurts. A lucky arrow or two and the party rogue is suddenly looking very worried. So for the occational encounter, large masses of low CR mooks are still a big threat, despite you wanting to up them a bit.

Any multi-target spell will greatly increase the efficiency of these mobs. Clerics throwing around Bless, Wizards with Mass Curse of Impending Blades, that sort of stuff.