Druids and Greatclubs?

[subject42]

Forgive me if anyone has pointed this out before, but I just noticed that Druids are proficient with clubs, but not greatclubs.

The odd thing about this is that if a medium druid wields a club meant for a large creature two-handed, he takes a -2 to hit and does 1d8 damage.

If he instead uses a greatclub, he'll do the same 1d8 damage, but take a -4 to hit because he isn't proficient with the weapon.

Huh?

[Morty]

I think it may be a balance thing. Druid isn't supposed to be a martial class so they don't get proficiency in a two-handed martial weapon.

[Marnath]

I've always been of the opinion that greatclub is a simple weapon. It's a giant chunk of wood that you bean people on the noggin with...whats difficult about that? It's not like its a Gyrspike or a whip where you can hurt yourself worse than the enemy if you dont know what you're doing. I can't think of anything you can do with a greatclub that you would need training to figure out how to do it.

[Keld Denar]

A greatclub is a bit more complex than a simple stick. They typically have metal banding that may or may not have spiked projections. They may or many not have carved or worked handles. They certainly aren't just a large branch you picked up off the ground, as represented by the cost difference between a club and a greatclub.

[Marnath]

So..it's a very nice stick with spikes? I dont really see what quality has to do with ease of use

[Prodan]

It's a surprisingly thorny problem

[WarKitty]

So..it's a very nice stick with spikes? I dont really see what quality has to do with ease of use

Arguably, the sheer heft of it takes some practice to use properly.

[jiriku]

It's a surprisingly thorny problem

/facepalm

Morty has gotten right to the root of the issue. At its heart, a greatclub is martial weapon, and WotC felt that it would be nuts for druids to branch out too far from their core role as a casting/wildshaping class. Else everyone playing another class would feel like a sap for not playing a druid.

[Marnath]

It's a surprisingly thorny problem

I c wut u did thar

[The Glyphstone]

Else everyone playing another class would feel like a sap for not playing a druid.

As opposed to now, where it's only everyone who's not a wizard or cleric.

Also, nice pun. This thread is almost as much of a gold mine as the latest Bear Warrior thread.

[Marnath]

Meh, idk. This thread Bearly lives up to that one's reputation.

[The Glyphstone]

That's why I said 'almost' - but then, this one hasn't finished rooting itself yet. People who can't stand puns might want to leaf now.

[Keld Denar]

This tired old meme needs to stop dragon on...

[Marnath]

This tired old meme needs to stop dragon on...

You could beat it to death with a greatclub, too bad you're only proficient with simple weapons..

[Keld Denar]

Ah, but a creature is always proficient with its natural weapons!

*face tentacle attack* SLURP

[Dr.Epic]

Forgive me if anyone has pointed this out before, but I just noticed that Druids are proficient with clubs, but not greatclubs.

The odd thing about this is that if a medium druid wields a club meant for a large creature two-handed, he takes a -2 to hit and does 1d8 damage.

If he instead uses a greatclub, he'll do the same 1d8 damage, but take a -4 to hit because he isn't proficient with the weapon.

Huh?

You could just take a feat to be proficient with it. Also, druids aren't supposed to be front line fighters unless their in animal form.

[subject42]

You could just take a feat to be proficient with it. Also, druids aren't supposed to be front line fighters unless their in animal form.

I don't particularly want to use a greatclub. It just seemed like a weird corner case in the rules.

I didn't find it until after I realized that magic quarterstaves are prohibitively expensive, since they're technically double ended weapons.

What does WotC have against grabbing wood with both hands?

[ericgrau]

I've always been of the opinion that greatclub is a simple weapon. It's a giant chunk of wood that you bean people on the noggin with...whats difficult about that? It's not like its a Gyrspike or a whip where you can hurt yourself worse than the enemy if you dont know what you're doing. I can't think of anything you can do with a greatclub that you would need training to figure out how to do it.

I can swing a sword too, doesn't mean I'm good at it.

[Eldan]

Who knows. It seems that druids are only proficient with grabbing their wood one-handed.

[Marnath]

I can swing a sword too, doesn't mean I'm good at it.

Yeah, but there are a lot of ways to cut someone with a sword, little tricks and maneuvers you woulnd't think of on your own. I just cant see any for a greatclub besides "i hit him again."

[ericgrau]

I think the same applies. Especially for swiveling past an opponent's weapon.

[Another_Poet]

I've always been of the opinion that greatclub is a simple weapon. It's a giant chunk of wood that you bean people on the noggin with...whats difficult about that?

Nothing, and it's such a bad way of using it that it merits 1d20 + attack bonus + -4 nonproficiency penalty.

If you were proficient you'd be spinning it in circles and figure eights, switching it from one hand to the other, sliding your hand along it to add leverage or choke up in confined quarters, striking knees, elbows, groin, floating rib, nose, or sternum with arcs that will hit just right, etc. You know... being proficient.

You can swing a sword and hit someone in the noggin. You can swing a machine gun and hit someone in the noggin. You can even swing a pair of halflings doing the ugly and hit someone in the noggin.

That doesn't mean you're proficient in using any of those things as weapons on a battlefield.

[WarKitty]

Yeah, but there are a lot of ways to cut someone with a sword, little tricks and maneuvers you woulnd't think of on your own. I just cant see any for a greatclub besides "i hit him again."

"Your blow rolls off his shoulder as you fail to effectively put any force behind it. The weight of the swing unbalances you and you stumble trying to not drop your weapon."

[Dr.Epic]

What does WotC have against grabbing wood with both hands?

Last panel of this comic.

[The Glyphstone]

Who knows. It seems that druids are only proficient with grabbing their wood one-handed.

No, nothing in the rules limits them to holding their wood with two hands - it's just that the rules limit the maximum size of their wood unless they spend a feat first.

[Eldan]

Gotcha. Druids just have smaller wood, then.

[Marnath]

Nothing, and it's such a bad way of using it that it merits 1d20 + attack bonus + -4 nonproficiency penalty.

If you were proficient you'd be spinning it in circles and figure eights, switching it from one hand to the other, sliding your hand along it to add leverage or choke up in confined quarters, striking knees, elbows, groin, floating rib, nose, or sternum with arcs that will hit just right, etc. You know... being proficient.

You can swing a sword and hit someone in the noggin. You can swing a machine gun and hit someone in the noggin. You can even swing a pair of halflings doing the ugly and hit someone in the noggin.

That doesn't mean you're proficient in using any of those things as weapons on a battlefield.

O.o I humbly admit defeat. Thats an excellent explanation, thanks.
*edit also.. whats the damage dice on a halfling couple?

[subject42]

Gotcha. Druids just have smaller wood, then.

Unless they're using oversized wood, at which point they're better at it with two hands than they would be with normal two-handed wood.

[Eloel]

Gotcha. Druids just have smaller wood, then.

Can't they get a bigger wood by training with a Barbarian?

[Fitz10019]

If he instead uses a greatclub, he'll do the same 1d8 damage, but take a -4 to hit because he isn't proficient with the weapon.

The greatclub is 1d10.