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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)


    A technocrat needs to take care of his Cataclysmic Technology.

    Technocrat (TNC)
    HD: d6
    Skill Points: 6 + Intelligence Modifier (x4 at 1st level)
    Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Construction, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Knowledge (Clockworks), Knowledge (History), Listen, Open Lock, Operation, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble, Use Rope
    Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: All light armor, bucklers, all simple weapons, rapier, longsword, shortsword, all gearslings, all steamblades

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Cataclysmic Technology, Operator, Constructor, Least Combat Specialization, Maintenance

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    ---

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Maintenance +4

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Empower Machinations 1

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Lesser Combat Specialization

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Maintenance +8

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    ---

    8th|
    +6/1
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Empower Machinations 2

    9th|
    +6/1
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Maintenance +12

    10th|
    +7/2
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Combat Specialization

    11th|
    +8/3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    ---

    12th|
    +9/4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Maintenance +16, Empower Machinations 3

    13th|
    +9/4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    ---

    14th|
    +10/5
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    ---

    15th|
    +11/6/1
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Improved Combat Specialization, Maintenance +20

    16th|
    +12/7/2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Empower Machinations 4

    17th|
    +12/7/2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    ---

    18th|
    +13/8/3
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Maintenance +24

    19th|
    +14/9/4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    ---

    20th|
    +15/10/5
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Greater Combat Specialization, Empower Machinations 5[/table]

    Cataclysmic Technology (Ex): Through a sheer stroke of luck, a spent fortune, or a chance discovery, a Technocrat has found and restored a piece of Cataclysmic Technology. He starts at level 1 with any Gearsling or Steamblade of his choice at the DM's discretion.

    Operator (Ex): Understanding the workings of Gearslings & Steamblades through constant tinkering and Trial & Error, a Technocrat adds his class level to any Operation Checks he makes to start up either class of weapons.

    Constructor (Ex): Toying with numerous parts of Cataclysmic Technology and figuring out how to get them to work together has taught the Technocrat an array of interesting combinations. He gains his class level to any Construction Checks he makes to create Cataclysmic Technology gadgets and weapons.

    Least Combat Specialization (Ex): Understanding that there's very little reason to have a Cataclysmic Technology weapon if you're not going to use it, a Technocrat may choose to specialize in either Gearslings or Steamblades, reducing the Operation DC for their startup by 2.

    Maintenance (Ex): Every Technocrat understands the importance of taking care of his Cataclysmic Technology. As long as he takes 1 hour each day to repair and maintain his weapon, any igniter he uses remains useful after startup. If he fails to take care of his weapon that day, there is a cumulative 10% chance that the next time he starts up his weapon, the igniter blows out and must be replaced. Additionally he gains a number of rounds per day with which his weapon can run without draining the igniter placed inside equal to his Intelligence Modifier so long as he has maintained that weapon for the day, and at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, he gains an additional 4 rounds per day.

    Empower Machinations (Ex): As a Technocrat becomes more skillful in the creation of Cataclysmic Technology, he is able to create more durable and more powerful gadgets and weaponry. At 4th level, all his Cataclysmic Technology gain an additional +3 to save DC's, skill bonuses or damage rolls. This increases by +3 every 4 levels thereafter.

    Lesser Combat Specialization (Ex): Quickly becoming accustomed to a vagabond life of sharpshooting beasts and hacking apart monsters, the Technocrat gets a stronger feel for his weapon of choice, gaining a +1 competence bonus to all attack rolls to either Gearslings or Steamblades.

    Combat Specialization (Ex): Understanding the quirks of his weapon and adjusting gears, sprockets, intakes and ventilation tubes, as well as growing in skill himself, a Technocrat gains a +2 competence bonus to all damage rolls to either Gearslings or Steamblades.

    Improved Combat Specialization (Ex): Quickly becoming more skillful in his weapon of choice than he once thought, the Technocrat's competence bonus to attack rolls to either Gearslings or Steamblades increases to +2.

    Greater Combat Specialization (Ex): Reaching the pinnacle and growing in skill with his weapon of choice equal to any fighter, a Technocrat's competence bonus to damage rolls with either Gearslings or Steamblades increases to +4.
    Last edited by Meirnon; 2010-07-29 at 06:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Important Abilities: A Technocrat's most important ability is his Intelligence, as it increases his Construction and Operations skills, as well as provides to him a number of rounds to run his weapon without draining the Igniter if properly maintained. Dexterity and Constitution are equally important, improving the Technocrats survivability in combat.

    Role: A Technocrat's role in any group is the inventor and gadgeteer. He is able to create numerous gadgets that help the group as well as harm enemies, and can use powerful Cataclysmic Technology to his advantage. His skill set allows him to replace a party's rogue, although he cannot be relied upon to deliver quite the same level of damage.

    Cataclysmic Technology: How to include this technology is an important decision on the DM's part. The following explanation is what I use for my campaign, as well as the derivative of the name. In an age before the current, a race of Automatons lived in relative harmony with the men and creatures of the world. Not all of it would last, as a Queen rose among the Automatons and preached of their existence, declaring their need of resources to continue to thrive and expand and compete with the races of flesh. The Automatons soon marched, taking over mines and veins of minerals, cutting down any living creature that stood in their way. Unsatisfied, the queen ordered towers to be constructed to bring down the stone and metal in the sky, determined to crack the moon asunder and harvest it.

    Men and Beasts, fearful for their lives, fought the Automatons, cutting their way to the towers that would bring their doom. Unable to stop the process, the creatures of flesh drove the moon into the Queen's lands, destroying it and shattering the earth, the magical force released causing all living things to vanish as the Automatons were annihilated. Thousands of years later, as new gods rebuilt the world, the living beings were called back to repopulate it, having spent many millennium trapped inside a pocket of Ether. With vague memories, they rebuilt their nations and kingdoms, a vast desert filled with the lost technologies of the past age where the moon had once fell.

    That was many hundreds of years ago, and the only proof that it happened at all are the rare pieces of technology that caused and fueled the cataclysm, spread across the earth, buried and forgotten, unable to be reproduced. The few people who can come across these pieces of ancient weaponry are called Technocrats by those without them, as the very possession of one denotes a level of wealth and power not available to the common man.

    Technocrats in the World: However the Technocrat came across his equipment, the Cataclysmic Technology he wields is rare and powerful. People react to those with these weapons and gadgets as they would a member of a royal family, as the wealth that the weapons symbolize imply the wielder's importance. As such, a Technocrat's place in the world tends to be elevated above the common man, although one not careful of his coin may find himself soon parting with the weapon so he may have enough coin to keep a portion of his lavish lifestyle.

    {table=head] Bardic Knowledge DC | Knowledge
    10 | The path of the Technocrat is dominated by the use of long lost technologies.
    15 | Understanding the Cataclysmic Technology he wields, a Technocrat is able to construct smaller gadgets and weapons, as well as work with traps easily.
    20 | The weapons a Technocrat wields only has it's potential released when a piece of Cataclysmic Technology known as an "Igniter" is used in conjunction with them, allowing them to move of their own machinations.
    30 | There are numerous sects of religions that believe that the technology a Technocrat wields is an abomination, and should not be allowed in the hands of men. Such sects often venture to destroy Cataclysmic Technology and slay anyone with knowledge of its workings. Technocrats are their prime targets.[/Table]
    Last edited by Meirnon; 2010-07-29 at 06:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Cataclysmic Technology
    {table=head]Gearslings|Damage (S)|Damage (M)|Critical|Type|Operation DC|Range|Weight|Clip Size|Cost|Construction DC
    Light Gearsling|1d8|1d10|x2|Pierce|12|40ft.|6lbs|9 Bullets|7000gp|45
    Medium Gearsling|1d12|2d6|x2|Pierce|15|60ft.|12lbs|6 Bullets|12000gp|55
    Heavy Gearsling|2d8|2d10|x2|Pierce|18|60ft.|20lbs|3 Bullets|17000gp|60[/Table]
    Gearslings, so called because of their ability to hurl sling bullets using the force of a spinning gear attached to an engine on the weapon's body, require a startup before they are able to shoot their projectiles. Without a startup, they are useless. All Gearslings require two hands. All Gearslings are considered Masterwork. Gearslings cannot be bought from normal shops under any circumstance, and collectors are not easily parted with their Cataclysmic Technology.
    Light Gearsling: This weapon consists of a small stock with an engine at the end of it that requires an Igniter to start. Once the engine is going, its firing components start spinning, and a pull of a trigger drops a bullet in to be fired down the long, tubular barrel.
    Medium Gearsling: Simply a Light Gearsling with a longer stock and a heavier engine, the amount of force this weapon can fire a bullet with is astounding.
    Heavy Gearsling: The heaviest Gearsling there is, the huge engine on the body of the weapon fires bullets extremely fast and with large amounts of force, although its accuracy is no greater than that of a Medium Gearsling's.

    {table=head]Steamblades|Damage (S)|Damage (M)|Critical|Type|Operation DC|Weight|Operating Damage (S)|Operating Damage (M)|Cost|Construction DC
    -Light
    Short Steamblade|1d4|1d6|19-20/x2|Slash|15|4lbs|1d8|1d12|6000gp|50
    Steam Glove|1d3|1d4|x3|Blunt|15|4lbs|1d6|1d8|5000gp|45
    -One-Handed
    Long Steamblade|1d6|1d8|19-20/x2|Slash|18|9lbs|1d12|2d8|9000gp|55
    -Two-Handed
    Great Steamblade|2d4|3d4|19-20/x2|Slash|20|16lbs|2d8|3d8|15000gp|60
    Steambreaker|1d10|2d6|x3|Blunt|20|24lbs|2d10|4d6|1 8000gp|65[/Table]
    Steamblades, once seemingly tools for construction, are powerful weapons. While not all of them are bladed, all are merely normal weapons until started with an Igniter. All Steamblades are considered Masterwork. Steamblades cannot be bought from normal shops under any circumstance, and collectors are not easily parted with their Cataclysmic Technology.
    Short Steamblade: A small, handheld Steamblade, its engine is small and not very hefty.
    Long Steamblade: Designed to be held with either one hand or two, the larger engine on this Steamblade gives the spinning blade more oomph.
    Great Steamblade: The largest of the bladed steamblades, it is impossible to be held in less than two hands. The large engine attached to the haft of it causes the blade to spin with enough force to sever limps and cut stone.
    Steam Glove: A small engine with straps and a finger-guard on the bottom, when started up, it fires a piston with bone-shattering force when a trigger is pulled. It was originally meant to pulverize stone as far as historians know, but it is equally useful at pulverizing skulls. A character is considered armed while using a Steam Glove.
    Steambreaker: Nothing more than a large engine loaded on a haft, when an Igniter is placed within it and it is started up, the engine fires a large piston at the pull of the trigger, crushing everything underneath the head.

    IGNITERS
    A component necessary to start up any Cataclysmic Technology weapon, these rare pieces of equipment are consumed after a number of rounds the weapon is left running. Igniters cannot be recharged, although, once used, may be salvaged for materials to construct a new igniter. The poorer the quality of the Igniter, the less time it lasts, and it can add to the Operation DC necessary to startup a weapon.
    {table=head]Igniter|Rounds|Operation Modifier|Cost|Weight|Construction DC
    Weak|15 rounds|+2|20gp|1lb|15
    Poor|30 rounds|+2|60gp|1lb|20
    Moderate|60 rounds|+1|140gp|1lb|25
    Strong|120 rounds|+1|280gp|1lb|30
    Pristine|240 rounds|+0|600gp|1lb|35[/Table]

    GADGETS AND WEAPONS
    While his skill and understanding of Cataclysmic Technology is useful to a party, his most useful skill is the creation of gadgets and weapons. The most basic of these are easily constructed, while the most complicated are extremely hard to construct, requiring a studied hand. While the gadgets the Technocrat can make cannot be bought from a vendor, only the Technocrat or others with the Operation skill can use them, as they require an Operation check to activate and use, so are useless to general vendors looking to buy items from adventurers. Gadgets do not require the use of an Igniter to startup. Gadgets come in 3 forms: damage, save and skill gadgets. Damage gadgets are likely to explode or burst, like the Alam's Sphere, and are consumed after use, unsalvageable. Save gadgets are likely to release an airborne poison or cause an effect, like the Alam's Tripper, and are consumed after use, but are generally salvageable. Skill gadgets provide a bonus to a certain skill, although may break if misused, but are otherwise are not consumed.

    With the exception of the few shown in the Example Gadgets section, a Technocrat must invent his own gadgets from scratch using the chart below. A gadget that provides a bonus to a skill should only be invented with thoughtful consideration, as the skill bonus gadgets provided in the Example Gadgets section cover most applicable skills. The cost, Construction DC, Operation DC, and other conditions regarding Skill Gadgets are up to DM's discretion.

    To invent a gadget, he must first make a Knowledge (Clockworks) check with the same DC as the forthcoming Construction check. When such a gadget is invented, he may construct as many as many as time and money allow at his discretion.

    * indicates that a DM's discretion is needed for other inventions.
    ** indicates that to have this property, the item cannot explode or burst.
    *** indicates this property can be taken multiple times with stacking effects.




    Example Gadgets



    More Gadgets as I make them~

    Cataclysmic Technology Skills

    Operation
    Ability Modifier: Intelligence
    Anytime a Cataclysmic Technology item is activated, the Operation skill makes sure it works as planned. While the DC for each piece equipment differs, a good Technocrat doesn't stop investing in the skill: even a slight mistake is enough to jam, snap, or otherwise destroy the piece of machinery.

    While being used to startup a Cataclysmic Technology weapon, this skill takes a full-round action to use, as the complicated process is difficult to do quickly. This time can be reduced to a Standard Action by increasing the DC by 10, a Move Action by increasing the DC by 20, or a Swift Action by increasing the DC by 30. A failure to meet this DC just means the startup is unsuccessful.

    While using the skill to activate Gadgets or anything else related to Cataclysmic Technology, it takes a standard action unless otherwise stated, and includes throwing or placing the object. Reducing it by one step increases the DC by 10, reducing the time by 2 steps increases the DC by 20, and reducing it by 3 steps increases the DC by 30. The activation time cannot be reduced below a swift action, and no more than 1 activation can be made within a single round. Failing to meet this DC by 5 or more results in the device failing to activate. Failing to meet this DC by 10 or more results in the device being ruined, although still salvageable.

    Synergy: Having 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (Clockworks) gives Operation a +2 Synergy bonus.

    Construction
    Ability Modifier: Intelligence
    A Technocrat's other most useful skill is his ability to construct Cataclysmic Technology. While a rogue may be able to make a simple Alam's Sphere, a Technocrat can make more advanced gadgets and weapons.

    To create a Cataclysmic Technology gadget or weapon, the Technocrat must spend an amount of GP (denoted as the "Cost" of the item) and a number of days equal to 1/100th of the price in gold. Thus, a Technocrat can easily make 20 Alam's Spheres in a single day, although he would only have enough time for rest afterwards. This time must be spent inside of a lab; the DC to construct Cataclysmic Technology in the field increases by 10.

    After the construction period is finished, a Construction check is made for each item created. If the check succeeds, the item is created successfully. A failure by less than 10 indicate that the 1/2 of the materials were destroyed, but are still usable. A failure by 10 or more indicate that the materials were destroyed completely.

    Salvaging is the act of deconstructing Cataclysmic Technology weapons and gadgets for their materials. This requires a Construction check of the same DC. If done in the field, away from a lab, the DC increases by 10. If the check succeeds, 1/4th of the gold cost in materials are salvaged. Thus, 4 used up Alam's Trippers could be used to create a new, useful Alam's Tripper. Failure by less than 10 indicate that the materials are still salvaged, although at 1/100th of the gold cost in materials. Failure by more than 10 indicate that there are no salvageable parts.

    Synergy: Having 5 or more ranks in Disable Device gives a +2 Synergy bonus to Construction. Having 5 or ranks points in Construction gives Disable Device a +2 Synergy bonus.
    Last edited by Meirnon; 2010-07-31 at 10:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Okay, this is (mostly) finished! Please PEACH, and suggest other gadgets I can create!

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    I always like a tinkerer class, and the gearslings are a brilliant steampunked form of firearms, but this doesn't look usable. The weapons are all incredibly expensive and will burn through hundreds of gold pieces worth of fuel if you actually try to be ready for combat every day. If you compare to magic weapons, the steamblades might be somewhere around the right price, but the gearslings aren't worth half what they're listed for. And unless you can apply magic enhancements to them like normal weapons, they'll fall behind quickly. The class itself doesn't seem to get anything other than some bonus rounds of operation to offset the limitation in the first place, and some paltry bonus damage. Which means all the class has going for it, besides coolness factor, is being able to construct the devices, which so far is a very short and specific list.

    This is all part of a problem I've noticed with classes that are focused around some type of equipment. If it has an appropriate cost for what it does, then you haven't given the class anything but the ability to buy items, something anyone else can do: it's just wacky stuff instead of bog standard magic. If it has a trivial cost or is free and/or increases in power with level, you have to somehow arbitrarily prevent anyone else from using it, which usually requires that it stop being equipment and become part of the character or be fueled by the character's magic/whatever. In this case, all you've done is take normal class features and tie them to an item that is more easily lost than a spellbook.

    The artificer is basically the official equipment class, and here's what it does from what I can tell: It doubles your effective cash and lets you buy whatever you want (since you can craft anything and you're only paying half price), and it makes you better at using your gear than other people. The second part is the most important: infusions give you even more phantom wealth, let you temporarily change powerful properties into other properties, let you supercharge your attacks (metamagic item: twin spell), and can give you fallback abilities if you don't even have your gear (spell storing item, blasting item, etc).

    So what does that wall of text mean? Right now all you have are some alternate magic items. Cool alternate items, but not any better than what you could pick up in a normal magic shop. You need a library of items, or a system of creating them, than can somehow rival the existing magic item system, and this will just get you back to square one. Then the Technocrat has to craft them at half normal price, and have some way of making them more powerful than just a flat damage bonus. If you want to keep the core of the idea using attack rolls it will be harder to balance than if it was standard action -> effect, but it can be done (I'm thinking add +dice/level maybe?). This of course is assuming you want something like the artificer, but steampunk. If you want more of a primary damage dealer, like a "fighter", then you can basically just tack the nifty items onto a fightery class as a flavor bonus. Oh, and the fact that you don't have a gearsling machine gun is just criminal. Criminal I tell you.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2010-07-30 at 06:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    The homebrewed engineer class also works pretty well for the roll.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    WALL O' TEXT!!!
    First off, thanks for the deliciously long PEACH.

    Second, here's my idea of remedy: Gearsling/Steamblade construction prices are reduced by half. You can't buy one still.
    A +damage dice/level might not be a passive, but a "Rev-Up" skill could do this (whereby an Operation check each round the weapon is "Revved" to keep it so, but with no penalty? Suggestions?)
    The lack of gadgets is because that was the last thing I created. I can build a Custom Gadget guideline for Technocrats to make their own. I was hoping some peachers would help me there.
    Yes, gearslings/steamblades can be enchanted.
    No, I don't want to default to Artificier. They don't fit into the campaign easily, and definitely don't match up with the World's flavor. Besides, Eberron always left a bad taste :P
    Aaanyway, I made the Technocrat because there ARE Technocrats in my world, and I wanted to both add stats to them and get some playgrounder help in balancing.
    So, if more help could go towards building the class (although I'm not complaining) and not towards comparing it to other classes?
    Last edited by Meirnon; 2010-07-30 at 12:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    My only real issue with this class is that a couple poor rolls can completely remove the Technocrat from combat. Now, I'll admit that it isn't Truespeak bad, but a first level Technocrat may have difficulty contributing in combat. In fact, even with the bonus from Operator, you'll have some difficulty in combat until about level 4, maybe 5. Also, how much do gearsling bullets cost? I didn't see a price anywhere.
    Spoiler
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

    I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaragosKitsune View Post
    My only real issue with this class is that a couple poor rolls can completely remove the Technocrat from combat. Now, I'll admit that it isn't Truespeak bad, but a first level Technocrat may have difficulty contributing in combat. In fact, even with the bonus from Operator, you'll have some difficulty in combat until about level 4, maybe 5. Also, how much do gearsling bullets cost? I didn't see a price anywhere.
    A Technocrat won't be removed from combat entirely no matter what. I made sure to give them a number of other weapon options. As well, the DC at level 1 for a Technocrat to start a Gearsling isn't impossible (max 4 ranks, +3 intelligence on average, +1 level bonus = +8 Operation at 1st level). And Steamblades don't need startup to be useful.

    As for the bullets, they use Sling Bullets, as it states in the general Gearsling description underneath the table.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Let me rephrase. For one thing with a 1st level character you can activate a Heavy Gearsling or any Steamblade less than half the time. And while Steamblades can be used without activation, the Technocrats don't get any of the combat options of other classes to make this viable. Now, admittedly, the Least Specialization helps, but you still don't get anything to really make you an effective combatant until level 4. Also, there is no reason (except for operation DC) for any character to not specialize in Steamblades and take one of the two-handed ones. Oh, but the d6 HD means that the technocrat is a glass cannon. As much as I like the flavour of the class, I think you need to decide what role you want the Technocrat to fill. It is trying to be a mobile warrior, a "run in and hit it with a giant slab of metal" warrior, a ranged sniper, and a crafting class all at once. As much as I agree with ability diversity, something here has to give. The damage on the Gearsling means that some players would rather take a Steamblade, but the high DC's of the Steamblade and low HD causes a conundrum. I'm sorry if I'm being overly critical, but I just have feel like this class has some unnecessary issues.
    Spoiler
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaragosKitsune View Post
    Let me rephrase. For one thing with a 1st level character you can activate a Heavy Gearsling or any Steamblade less than half the time. And while Steamblades can be used without activation, the Technocrats don't get any of the combat options of other classes to make this viable. Now, admittedly, the Least Specialization helps, but you still don't get anything to really make you an effective combatant until level 4. Also, there is no reason (except for operation DC) for any character to not specialize in Steamblades and take one of the two-handed ones. Oh, but the d6 HD means that the technocrat is a glass cannon. As much as I like the flavour of the class, I think you need to decide what role you want the Technocrat to fill. It is trying to be a mobile warrior, a "run in and hit it with a giant slab of metal" warrior, a ranged sniper, and a crafting class all at once. As much as I agree with ability diversity, something here has to give. The damage on the Gearsling means that some players would rather take a Steamblade, but the high DC's of the Steamblade and low HD causes a conundrum. I'm sorry if I'm being overly critical, but I just have feel like this class has some unnecessary issues.
    No problem. As much as the Technocrat is a glass cannon, it's pretty much built to be dipped and dabbed and multiclassed. I let them use Steamblades because they were a large part of my previous, pre-cataclysmic campaign, as well as Gearslings. I'm probably going to do a follow up Dragoon class or Prestige that allows Steamblade Technocrats to further specialize if they don't wish to keep going in the, admittedly, relatively squishy Technocrat.

    The point of this class wasn't for him to have any hit-and-run tactics as much as a means to defend himself. A smart player won't try to be the tank. The point of the class was mostly the flavor. He allows someone who doesn't want to be a rogue but wants to have skills to HAVE those skills. He's meant to be the party inventor and technician, but not much else.

    While I can see your point for the heavy Gearsling, I'll lower the Operation DC for them and bump the Operation DC for faster Startups. I'll also lower the cost of gadgets, which can easily be made in a city (or with a bit of difficulty on the fly).

    With any note of what I want for this class, it should be comparable to Batman with all its gadgets.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Meirnon View Post
    With any note of what I want for this class, it should be comparable to Batman with all its gadgets.
    By saying this, you have encouraged me to make my DM facepalm. I salute you good sir.
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

    I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaragosKitsune View Post
    By saying this, you have encouraged me to make my DM facepalm. I salute you good sir.
    Wait, is that a good thing? I just want the same "Hey, if I'm not prepared, I'll get the snickerdoodles beaten out of me. If I have an hour to prepare, ain't no way I'm going to loose. Utility belt ftw, amirite Superman? *Holds up hand in anticipation of a hi-five*"

    Considering that Technocrats are often eccentrically wealthy men with a taste for adventure, I don't think it's hard to imagine that if Bruce Wayne were in my campaign, he'd be "Dire-Warbatman".

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    It's pretty much that idea. Is there a basic template you use for the gadgets or were they built from scratch. I think I may want to contribute on that end. Also, if you wan t to go down the Batman route, this class could also be used for the Joker or the Penguin.
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

    I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaragosKitsune View Post
    It's pretty much that idea. Is there a basic template you use for the gadgets or were they built from scratch. I think I may want to contribute on that end. Also, if you wan t to go down the Batman route, this class could also be used for the Joker or the Penguin.
    That's just it, I have very little idea of a template beyond a general base DC 15 to build from on saves, DC 15 base operation and DC 20 base construction, along with the 3 types (Damage, Save, Skill). And I would love contribution and help when it comes to building new gadgets. That, along with balancing the class, is specifically why I put it on the playground.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Meirnon View Post
    First off, thanks for the deliciously long PEACH.

    Second, here's my idea of remedy: Gearsling/Steamblade construction prices are reduced by half. You can't buy one still.
    Actually, I've kind of changed my stance. See below.
    A +damage dice/level might not be a passive, but a "Rev-Up" skill could do this (whereby an Operation check each round the weapon is "Revved" to keep it so, but with no penalty? Suggestions?)
    DaragosKitsune already addressed this issue: unless the check is low enough that you always succeed, then the ability has to be even more powerful to make up for being unreliable. While magic items require UMD checks, Artificers pretty much never fail them, and it needs to be the same here.
    The lack of gadgets is because that was the last thing I created. I can build a Custom Gadget guideline for Technocrats to make their own. I was hoping some peachers would help me there.
    I figured it was the last thing. The only way to balance a bunch of gadgets is to either base them on the magic system (boring), make a bunch of tables and guidelines (reinventing the wheel, er, magic system), or just stat them all up (tons of work and still won't compete with existing systems). If you want to have gadgets be an important feature, you're either going to have to outsource it to existing mechanics, or bite the bullet and write yourself a book.
    Yes, gearslings/steamblades can be enchanted.
    Alright, at least they can get better with level then.
    No, I don't want to default to Artificier. They don't fit into the campaign easily, and definitely don't match up with the World's flavor. Besides, Eberron always left a bad taste :P
    You misunderstand me. I'm talking about power level/party roles, not suggesting you use the Artificer instead of homebrewing. The Artificer is a pretty powerful class, and fills the roles of problem solver and blaster, usually. Since you mention batman in your most recent post, I assume that you do indeed want the class to be able to fill the same kind roles (indeed, though Batman is usually used to refer to wizards, it more appropriately belongs to Artificers, since they actually use gadgets). The thing is, the reason the Artificer works well in that role is that it takes the magic and item systems already in the core rules, and then expands them even farther with it's class features. The artificer is able to solve problems because like the wizard, it has access to all the spells that solve the problems (with the addition of divine spells as well), simply crafting them in item form instead of casting them from the spellbook. If you want your class to be able to fill the same roles as an artificer, you will either have to use many of the same mechanics and base all the tech items on spells, or you will have to homebrew a "cataclysmic technology" system that can rival the breadth and depth of the entire 3.5 magic system. All the spells and effects that clerics and wizards can muster and magic items in all their forms would have to be represented, because an Artificer has access to all of these by default.

    But all hope is not lost. The less optimized your game is, the less people will notice if the technology system is missing things. It's perfectly possible to play a character that doesn't make use of every possible ability they have, and while the Artificer is incredibly versatile and powerful because of it's depth, if your players would never take it to the limit, you don't have to emulate the upper limits with technology. So if your players don't use many sources, you might be able to homebrew enough tech stuff to make an "Artificer" that uses a tech system instead of magic.

    And there's my other suggestion: you could plan the class more as a damage dealer than a problem solver. Since you've just said that the class is only going to be dipped most of the time and is for flavor more than power, you don't have to compete with the Artificer. Instead, the class would be something like a ranger, capable of choosing ranged or melee combat and getting increased ability in that regard. In this situation, you could keep the technology restricted to class members only, and would price everything fairly against normal magic items. Crafting would basically become a fluff ability: you'd still pay full market value for what you're making so that there's no difference in power level between a character with magic items and a character with gadgets, only the fluff would be different. As long as the crafting is just a refluff of their WBL, you can add it onto an already solid class without unbalancing anything, and just make sure the base is powerful enough to stand on it's own.

    Tl:Dr; don't try and make something that will be a problem solver like the Artificer. Instead, build a solid combat class that specializes in technological weapons, with abilities similar to bonus feats/sneak attack/manuevers/whatever strikes your fancy. Price the technology fairly against magic items, limit it to Technocrats only, and charge full price when "crafting", so that the net result is just a refulffing of the WBL gear of the character. Instead of shopping at a mall they build it themselves, but the cost and benefits end up the same as a normal character, and their real power doesn't come from having different fluffy items, but from the same kinds of training and abilities other characters get (just limited to tech items instead of combat styles or flanked opponents or whatever). This lets people dip the class for the ability to acquire and use tech items if they just want the fluff, and lets people that want to be better with tech items than a dipper continue the class and remain effective.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    'NOTHER WALL!!! BAMF!!!
    Alright. This is really the second serious class I've made, so I need a bit of help. I don't want a library of gadgets, and maybe a custom gadget-crafting rule-set (like crafting traps in the DM's Guide, I guess) will fit the bill. The point is that there are a few of my own ideas, but, as a whole, I want the gear to be made and invented on a per-Technocrat basis. They aren't supposed to be building known creations: they're supposed to be inventing.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    I kind of like this as a problem solver, and part of why I like it is that it promotes the idea of "Let's go back and make a solution". This class is doesn't necessarily answer every problem that comes up, but can be prepared for a couple situations in addition to what the class does. Plus, if you really need a "Bat-Anti-Thing-Spray" type gadget made, you go back to town and make one. Also, yes gadgets cost money to make, but an Artificer only has so much reserve experience. Despite my issues towards combat effectiveness, there are certainly worse classes to play. It's not perfect, but I'd still play it because despite my issues with it I would still enjoy playing it. I get that it isn't all about combat. You can use the Artificer, but this does a similar thing in an interesting way. The rules for Construction and Operation work, not perfectly, but they are viable. Your first few levels aren't going to be easy by any means, but the class can survive those levels. In fact, if you want a low magic Artificer replacement, you could do worse than the Technocrat.
    Oh, Before I forget, a table for gadget construction won't be too hard to make, especially if you are just making situational skill modifier items. You aren't making these for the party (gadgets require Operation checks, which is cross-class for everyone else, and usually apply your Int modifier, which many classes really don't rely on) and I don't think you would need as many magic items with what you can do with gadgets any way. Maybe some weapon enchantments and stat boosters is all you'll really need here, but you could do worse than having gadgets for a lot of your WBL. Sorry if I rambled a bit.

    Edit: Oh, if you want invention on a case by case basis, maybe you could make it so that the inventor needs to succeed on an Operation check (based on the complexity of the theoretical gadget) to figure out what they are trying to do.
    Last edited by DaragosKitsune; 2010-07-31 at 12:54 AM.
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

    I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    The table would be easy to make. It would basically be an effect/damage table. As for an Operation Check, I think a Knowledge (Clockworks) would be better suited. Most Technocrats would invest 5 points in it anyway right from the get-go for the +2 Synergy to Operation. But yeah, I think we could definitely make it an enjoyable class to play (which is my personal goal for any homebrew I make).

    As for Operation, I might make it a rogue skill in my personal campaign, and if anyone else decides to actually use this class, they could hand out the skill to anyone they deem would be able to use it (like a Fighter if Steamblades are widely used). I still believe Construction should be relegated to Technocrats, though.

    Edit: more peaching?
    __________________________________________________ _____________

    Alright, added the invention section and the invention table. It's preliminary, and I had to update it constantly, but it seems to work. Could someone help by creating gadgets with it they'd use and seeing how well they'd work?

    I also reworked the current gadgets under the system. Most of them have a special "*" effect, so I made that effect range from +1 to +3 Construction/Operation. You can tell which ones got which if you add them up.

    EDIT: I accidentally didn't save the changes of my last chart, so I had to redo it. I'm leaving the example gadgets be, but I had to redo it.
    Last edited by Meirnon; 2010-07-31 at 10:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Ignoring cost, I found a pattern for how to standardize the skill gadgets.

    +5 to one skill when activated: DC 20
    +10 to one skill in one specific situation: DC 20
    For each additional skill or situation that requires the same skill as the original situation: DC +10
    For each situation that uses a different skill: DC +15

    As to cost, I think something like 50gp per situation or skill would be fair. Also, I think some kind of mechanic to increase the skill bonuses (at a much higher cost of course) of a gadget wouldn't be unwarranted. Although, the issue comes up of the Steamblade Auto-starter (+10 to Operation checks to Activate a Steamblade). This idea can always be altered as needed, of course.
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

    I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaragosKitsune View Post
    Ignoring cost, I found a pattern for how to standardize the skill gadgets.

    +5 to one skill when activated: DC 20
    +10 to one skill in one specific situation: DC 20
    For each additional skill or situation that requires the same skill as the original situation: DC +10
    For each situation that uses a different skill: DC +15

    As to cost, I think something like 50gp per situation or skill would be fair. Also, I think some kind of mechanic to increase the skill bonuses (at a much higher cost of course) of a gadget wouldn't be unwarranted. Although, the issue comes up of the Steamblade Auto-starter (+10 to Operation checks to Activate a Steamblade). This idea can always be altered as needed, of course.
    Empower Machinations gives your skill gadgets a boost.

    I'll definitely build off of that framework.

    As for the framework I've built so far, opinions or alterations?

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    Default Re: Technocrats, Gearslings, & Steamblades (3.5e, PEACH)

    Any new peachers want to take a whack at this class? I'm always looking for ways to balance/improve upon it. And it's not thread necro yet~

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