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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Laurellien's Avatar

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    Default Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    The spells included in a golem manual require a spell trigger activation and can be activated only to assist in the construction of a golem. The cost of the book does not include the cost of constructing the golemís body. Once the golem is finished, the writing in the manual fades and the book is consumed in flames. When the bookís ashes are sprinkled upon the golem, it becomes fully animated.
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A stone golemís body is chiseled from a single block of hard stone, such as granite, weighing at least 3,000 pounds. The stone must be of exceptional quality, and costs 5,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 17 Craft (sculpting) check or a DC 17 Craft (stonemasonry) check.
    Does this mean that if one has a stone golem manual, one needs only to pay 5000 GP on top of the price of the manual to make a golem?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurellien View Post
    Here's a good one

    "We are not working on 4th edition and we have no plans for it."
    -Every single person at WotC when asked
    You sir, win.

    Robin of Whitehills, NG Human Druid IV, by me.


    Carradoc of the Hall of Grond, CG Dwarf Berserker (complex build), by the illustrious Ceika.

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    Snake-Aes's Avatar

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Yes. ......

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Isn't the book more expensive than just doing it yourself?

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    Snake-Aes's Avatar

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Isn't the book more expensive than just doing it yourself?
    Yes. ......

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Yeah, thought so. So golem manuals aren't really cheap, just save you XP. Now for a de-rail, what exactly is your avatar a picture of snake?

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    Snake-Aes's Avatar

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Yeah, thought so. So golem manuals aren't really cheap, just save you XP. Now for a de-rail, what exactly is your avatar a picture of snake?
    The mad hatter.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Laurellien's Avatar

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A stone golemís body is chiseled from a single block of hard stone, such as granite, weighing at least 3,000 pounds. The stone must be of exceptional quality, and costs 5,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 17 Craft (sculpting) check or a DC 17 Craft (stonemasonry) check.

    CL 14th; Craft Construct, antimagic field, geas/quest, slow, symbol of stunning, caster must be at least 14th level; Price 90,000 gp; Cost 50,000 gp + 3,400 XP.
    So with a manual, do you just have to pay the 5k or the 50k for material components?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurellien View Post
    Here's a good one

    "We are not working on 4th edition and we have no plans for it."
    -Every single person at WotC when asked
    You sir, win.

    Robin of Whitehills, NG Human Druid IV, by me.


    Carradoc of the Hall of Grond, CG Dwarf Berserker (complex build), by the illustrious Ceika.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jack_Simth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurellien View Post
    Does this mean that if one has a stone golem manual, one needs only to pay 5000 GP on top of the price of the manual to make a golem?
    Well, it depends.

    Let's look at the manual base description again, and focus on two different portions:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Golem Manual

    A golem manual contains information, incantations and magical power that help a character to craft a golem. The instructions therein grant a +5 competence bonus on skill checks made to craft the golemís body. Each manual also holds the prerequisite spells needed for a specific golem, effectively grants the builder use of the Craft Construct feat during the construction of the golem, and grants the character an increase to her caster level for the purpose of crafting a golem. Any golem built using a golem manual does not cost the creator any XP, since the requisite XP are "contained" in the book and "expended" by the book during the creation process.

    The spells included in a golem manual require a spell trigger activation and can be activated only to assist in the construction of a golem. The cost of the book does not include the cost of constructing the golemís body. Once the golem is finished, the writing in the manual fades and the book is consumed in flames. When the bookís ashes are sprinkled upon the golem, it becomes fully animated.
    (Emphasis and emphasis added, specific text copied from Here).

    The underlined portion is what the manual explicitly grants you for purposes of making the golem. The bolded portion is what it explicitly does not grant you.

    The magical materials required for enchantment? It's not explicitly mentioned, either way. So there's two ways to look at it:
    1: It gives you everything needed except what it explicitly says it doesn't.
    2: It gives you exactly what it explicitly says it does and nothing more.

    Interpretation 1 means that when making a Stone Golem, no, you don't need the 45,000 gp worth of magical crafting materials, just the 5,000 gp body (as it doesn't say it doesn't provide crafting materials).

    Interpretation 2 means that when making a Stone Golem, you need the 45,000 gp worth of magical crafting materials in addition to the 5,000 gp body (as it doesn't say it does provide crafting materials).

    Which interpretation is correct is up to the DM running the game.


    From a balance perspective:
    The Stone Golem Manual has a market price of 22,000 gp.
    The crafting materials for a Stone Golem (Excluding the body) cost 45,000 gp.
    It's a *ridiculous* savings if the book gives you the XP and the materials.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    One of the uses of the manual is to allows high UMD non magic classes to make their own golems.

    I wonder if one can abuse them with artificer's.

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Heck, just abuse them with rogues.

    "Say hello to my new flanking buddy."
    I just published my first novella, Lķnasa Days, a modern fantasy with a subtle, uncertain magic.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn080 View Post
    One of the uses of the manual is to allows high UMD non magic classes to make their own golems.

    I wonder if one can abuse them with artificer's.
    Perhaps..., in order to get a better assembly line of golem production via the use of expert followers, maybe.



    How many days does it take to make 'em with golem manuals if one has the body and book on hand already? Is it just a ritual(the checks) and bam, golem?

    Because if so, there's no real point for the artificer doing anything other than just enchanting the golem himself... I think... Mostly because the XP cost is increased for the artificer for making the book when he can just make the golem.
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    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Golem Manuals and dirt cheap golems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake-Aes View Post
    The mad hatter.
    It looks like something Brom painted. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans
    Not again...

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