Arcane archer help

[Zen Master]

A friend of mine wants to join our campaign, and wants to play an archer. He has suggested a ranger/wizard - which I would say was a horrible combination, but maybe an arcane archer would work?!

Now, this entire group is fairly unoptimized, and none of them know DnD 3.5 too well. I do - I've just never built an arcane archer.

We're currently level 5, will level to 6 next session. So he will be just starting the build - and I expect we will level no higher than maybe 10-12, before switching to something else.

So ... the pure basics of an arcane archer - what would they be? Sources are Core and SRD, plus any feat that's a must have to make it work.

Might be helpful to drop a couple of hints as to tactics aswell =)

[Zen Master]

Oh ....

How on gods good earth did this wind up in this forum?! Gah. Sorry - could someone with the means to do so either delete or move this?! =)

[Arbitrarity]

Report your own post using the report button at the bottom. That gets a mod's attention normally.

Arcane Archer is... well, terrible. That's the problem. If you want an Arcane spellcasting Ranger, consider allowing the FR feat Sword of the Arcane Order, which lets you cast Wizard spells with your Ranger spell slots, and single class ranger easily.

[Runestar]

I think a fighter/wiz/eldritch knight using the smiting spell feat from PHB2 would actually make a better arcane archer.

[Zen Master]

I think a fighter/wiz/eldritch knight using the smiting spell feat from PHB2 would actually make a better arcane archer.

Hm yea ... but, core + srd only, remember?

Are there any decent ways to bring a ranger (ranged, naturally) up to speed? It's not like huge amounts of optimizing are needed - he's up against a singleclass rogue and a paladin/blackguard, who admittedly does a lot of damage with powerattack.

[Soranar]

Thing is , an arcane archer is basically a class that can be completely replaced by a magic bow (which you will get faster than an arcane archer's abilities)

With this in mind, straight ranger or straight wizard would be a better choice (you can still use a bow)

the other decent archer option is the hunting barbarian variant from SRD
makes you a tougher archer , which runs faster too (extra movement always helps)

or just a straight barbarian with a force bow (unlimited strength to damage bonus)

[Mongoose87]

Ask your DM to use the Pathfinder Arcane Archer, which actually advances arcane casting.

[Skycroft]

I agree. Either use the Pathfinder Version of the Arcane Archer, or be an Eldritch Knight focused on archery. (Also, ask if he will allow Deadly Aim).

3.5 arcane archer is really that bad.

[Zen Master]

Ask your DM to use the Pathfinder Arcane Archer, which actually advances arcane casting.

Um .... the DM would be me.

[Prodan]

So you gotta ask yourself, punk, "Do I feel lucky?"

Well do ya, punk?

[Snake-Aes]

Um .... the DM would be me.

Well, this is the big thing about arcane archers: All of their class features together aren't worth a loss of 5 caster levels. It's barely worth 2 since other full progressing PrCs can get most of their stuff.
-----------
The other thing about archery is that damage by bow alone doesn't come from megapowerful shots. It comes from a hail of megapowerful shots.
The Archery Handbook. The core of the handbook is a few handy feats and the bow enchantments.

[Flame of Anor]

I've got a similar archery-focused character (Rgr2/Ftr2/Wiz2), and right now I'm getting into the Abjurant Champion PrC (5 levels); do you have any suggestions for what to do after that?

[Eldariel]

Arcane Archer's level 2 ability is good. It's not worth the feats but it does something. The rest isn't worth 1 level combined. In other words, if AA were a 3-level PrC and got all the remaining abilities on level 3, it still wouldn't be worth taking (except maybe for +5 arrows early in some fringe builds and even that wears out as Greater Magic Weapon catches up).

Some decent AA builds:
Bard 8/AA 2/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 4/Sacred Exorcist 4
Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Arcane Archer 2/Sacred Exorcist ->


In Core, the best you can honestly do is Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight X/AA 2/Eldritch Knight ->

Unfortunately, that's still fairl atrocious as Gishes in Core are wont to be. Other option is postponing AA way too late, but that ends up in something like Wizard 12/AA 2/Eldritch Knight -> and just isn't relevant for most games.

But yeah, Imbue Arrow has uses; shooting Anti-Magic Fields, Greases and company has its uses, and adding 1d8+5d6+10 damage to a Glitterdust's primary target for free doesn't hurt either.

In Core, unfortunately arrow damage mostly comes from weapon enhancements. Character classes do very little to it. Practiced Spellcaster seems like a must tho. I really think he'll want access to non-Core Gish classes or plain better Arcane Archer tho.

[Rixx]

Pathfinder Arcane Archer is wonderful! You get to do so much cool stuff.

[Zen Master]

The Archery Handbook.

Wow - an archery handbook. Thank - I shall scour it for information.

[W3bDragon]

Wow - an archery handbook. Thank - I shall scour it for information.

Unfortunately, the archery handbook doesn't have much for Arcane Archer.

However, since you mentioned that the group is fairly unoptimized, I see no reason why Arcane Archer shouldn't work. To keep things simple, have him take fighter far enough to get Weapon Spec, so he qualifies for Ranged Weapon mastery, and instead of taking a wizard dip, he can take a sorcerer dip. Allow him the 1st level spell Arrow Mind from the spell compendium (negates AoO and lets him threaten squares around him) and he's set. Just make sure you don't put any magical bow loot in the game so he doesn't feel stupid. He'll do fine.

[Runestar]

Thing is , an arcane archer is basically a class that can be completely replaced by a magic bow (which you will get faster than an arcane archer's abilities)

Or rather, a single spell. Or have we forgotten about greater magic weapon already?

[Cespenar]

Go Barbarian 4/Ranger 2/Sorcerer 1/AA 2. If your game is indeed fairly unoptimized as you say, this build can dish out an 'acceptable' amount of damage with a composite longbow of, say, +8-9 strength rating, rapid shot, and a full attack.

Then get Obscuring Mist on your arrows and smokebomb wherever you want.

[Zen Master]

Then get Obscuring Mist on your arrows and smokebomb wherever you want.

That's the thing that always bothers me about the AA - there are so few spells it's really interesting to imbue your arrows with.

Anyways - it doesn't have to be an AA, that's just me feeling around the edges of this whole archer thing. I've ... never played an archer. Hardly ever used a ranged weapon.

[Eldariel]

That's the thing that always bothers me about the AA - there are so few spells it's really interesting to imbue your arrows with.

Anyways - it doesn't have to be an AA, that's just me feeling around the edges of this whole archer thing. I've ... never played an archer. Hardly ever used a ranged weapon.

Archers in Core aren't amazing in general; or well, they're quite good but the issue is their power relies on magic items; class features give very little and Rapid Shot is the only real feat-based boost in Core for Archers. Unlike outside Core, in Core you're stuck relying on magic items to do much as an archer.

Cleric 20 makes for a fine Archer though and especially if you pick domains appropriately (level 6 sees Divine Favor get up to +2/+2 already), definitely has the feel of a magical archer. So...I suggest looking in there and refluffing as necessary.

If it has to be arcane, Barbarian - or - Ranger - or - Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight -> is the best you can do.

[Douglas]

The biggest problem with Arcane Archer is that it was horribly nerfed in the transition from 3e to 3.5e by a change elsewhere in the rules - projectile weapons were changed from having enhancement bonuses on the launcher and projectile stack to having them overlap. Thus, AA went from getting extra bonuses without having to constantly shell out money on single-use ammunition to being replaced by a magic bow.

Simple fix: house-rule that the Arcane Archer's Enhance Arrow ability stacks with his bow's enhancement bonus. This still won't bring the class up to being competitive in high optimization games, but I think it should be good enough in the relatively unoptimized game the OP is running.

[Cespenar]

Simple fix: house-rule that the Arcane Archer's Enhance Arrow ability stacks with his bow's enhancement bonus. This still won't bring the class up to being competitive in high optimization games, but I think it should be good enough in the relatively unoptimized game the OP is running.

Wouldn't a better fix be to simply advancing caster level?

[Person_Man]

The archery mechanics in 3.X are total garbage. There's a relatively large feat tax (Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Precise Shot, and potentially Greater Manyshot), your ability to deliver damage or special effects is relatively limited, and there are several things (Deflect Arrow, Block Arrow, Wind Wall, Wind Cloak, etc) that nerf or negate it. The only advantage is that you generally have an easy time staying away from the front line of combat, and DR is rarely a problem for you.

So my suggestion is to just play your standard Cleric or Archivist archer. Arcane Archer builds, even after the Pathfinder semi-fix, are still quite limited.

[JonestheSpy]

If you don't want to deal with Pathfinder, there's a pretty good fix in the Hombrew section of the forum here.

Really, the SRD Arcane Archer is a great example of the rules' schizophrenic attitude toward magic. It would be a good class as written in a world where magic items are really rare - which is totally not the world the WBL tables were written for.

[TooManyBadgers]

Depending on the optimization level of the group and your taste for houserules, these you could do one of a few things. I'm just going to throw some ideas out here:

Within RAW:

Ranger 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer X: sure it sucks, but if the rest of the party are Paladins and Fighters, it won't really matter.

Or

Druid 8/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 2/Druid 9: works with the concept from level 1, gets level 9 spells by level 20, takes the high point from Arcane Archer. Could probably contribute alongside Clerics at higher levels.

Or

Ranger 2/Wizard 6/Elritch Knight 2/Arcane Archer 2/Eldritch Knight 8: Epic-ready, gains the defining features of the Ranger and the Wizard. It loses 5 caster levels, but should hold up in a mixed group of Bard/Rogue/Ranger/Barbarian-powered classes.

Or

Ranger 20. It gets spells and arrows and it's pretty middle-of-the-road as far as core class power is concerned.


Outside RAW:

Modify the Ranger: strip the Combat Styles, animal companion and maybe a couple skill points away, replace with Bard-rate casting from the Wizard list and keep Arcane Archer special shots at the same rate (Imbue Arrow at class level 2, Arrow of Death at class level 10). Make any combination of special arrows (beside Imbued Arrows) usable Class Level+Wis times per day.

It'll be a bit strong at first, but if the rest of the party is made of Druids & Clerics or something, it shouldn't stand out too much past level 4 and should hold up strongly up to the mid-teen levels.

Or

Modify the Ranger by substituting spells into its class list.

Or

Turn Imbue Arrow into a feat or a Companion-replacement.

[Kylarra]

If it's just access to materials that's an issue, I was going to suggest soulbow because those are kind of fun and available for free online.

[Thespianus]

Pathfinder Arcane Archer is wonderful! You get to do so much cool stuff.

+1

I hadn't read it before, and ... MAN! It just reeks of cool.

[DragonsAion]

I'm most likely going to get beat for this but would a duskblade make a decent arcane archer if you used the PF verson?

I know duskblade is melee focus but....

[Flame of Anor]

Ranger 2/Wizard 6/Elritch Knight 2/Arcane Archer 2/Eldritch Knight 8

So eight levels of Eldritch Knight...and two levels of Elritch Knight. Let me guess, he has full Misspellcasting advancement?

[TooManyBadgers]

So eight levels of Eldritch Knight...and two levels of Elritch Knight. Let me guess, he has full Misspellcasting advancement?

It's a rare ability, but well worth all the exprience points.