duskblade multiclassing into TOB

[thorgrim29]

Hey, I'm currently playing a level 12 duskblade in a weekly game, and I'm nearing the point where continuing with the duskblade meets diminishing returns, I put that point after level 15. With 3 uses of quick-cast, full attack channelling, 3 level 4 spells (probably dispel magic, dimension door and shout) and loads of spells per day, I figure it's time to multiclass a bit. My dilemma is this, warblade or swordsage?

Swordsage gives me +3 ac (stupidly high stats so wis 16, and using light armor), +2 initiative, 10 known manoeuvres, 6 prepared, and 3 stances, plus if I go for a lot of shadow hand (using a bloodstone spiked chain) I get weapon focus and insightful strike for my main weapon. However I get less hp and loose 2 BAB as well as delaying my fourth attack by one level.

Warblade gives me more hp, more BAB, int on reflex saves and critical confirmation, access to white raven (my favourite discipline), more staying power, but at the cost of 4 manoeuvres and a stance known.

Right now my guts are telling me swordsage, but I figured I might as well ask the playground.

Right now my feats are:
weapon proficiency spiked chain, power attack, eschew material, somatic weaponry, arcane strike, versatile spellcaster, and knowledge devotion, and as I said I use a bloodstone spiked chain, a mithril breastplate and a composite longbow and scorching ray at range.

My party has an orc.... something (monk paragon barbarian, odd character with ridiculous str), a pixie warlock, a human rogue/ninja spy who sneaks and two weapon fights, a dwarf horizon walker and sometimes a halfling sorcerer. Plus we've got a mystic theurge (from druid and sorc I think) waiting in the wings for the orc to die.

[Machiavellian]

Duskblade is INT based. For INT Synergy, go with Warblade. Warblade also adds INT to pretty much everything. If you have the space for it, try to get into Jade Phoenix Mage to pump up your casting a little and your Maneuvers. Take feats to pick up a couple or so of the required maneuver disciplines and become a walking nuke

[Snake-Aes]

You could try dusk13 + warblade/Jade Phoenix Mage

[Machiavellian]

You could try dusk13 + warblade/Jade Phoenix Mage

I just suggested that... and in Greater Detail

[Snake-Aes]

Don't have to rub it in.

[Fax Celestis]

Duskblade is INT based. For INT Synergy, go with Warblade. Warblade also adds INT to pretty much everything. If you have the space for it, try to get into Jade Phoenix Mage to pump up your casting a little and your Maneuvers. Take feats to pick up a couple or so of the required maneuver disciplines and become a walking nuke

You can actually walk into JPM after one level of Warblade as a Duskblade greater than level 5. It's what I'd do (actually, I would've done Dusk 5/War 1/JPM 10/something else 4, with something else being Abj Cham, Spellsword, more Duskblade or Warblade, Eldritch Knight, Knight Phantom...).

[Elfin]

Warblade seems especially useful in your case, since it'll allow you to change your EWP into anything you like.

[Machiavellian]

You can actually walk into JPM after one level of Warblade as a Duskblade greater than level 5. It's what I'd do (actually, I would've done Dusk 5/War 1/JPM 10/something else 4, with something else being Abj Cham, Spellsword, more Duskblade or Warblade, Eldritch Knight, Knight Phantom...).

Excellent point. and since we are here, let's get the obligitory feat out of the way: Arcane Strike. There, I said it.

However, Duskblade is a sort-of sub-par gish in a box. Excellent for lazy players, not as great as a Hexblade/Paladin of Slaughter/Battle Dancer/Suel Archanamach, but it does its intended job

[thorgrim29]

Thing is I don't want to do something incredibly strong, I actually said what my party looks like to point at the general power level. But JPM's a cool idea... Thanks

[PId6]

I'd go with Swordsage. The AC bonus is great, you get more maneuvers, and warblade doesn't actually give you all that much Int synergy if you only dip it for a few levels (capped Ref saves and crit confirmation, meh). However, if you're going to dip for 5+ levels, you might as well just take both, since that means you get more maneuvers out of it and your IL won't be that different. Duskblade 15/Warblade 1/Swordsage 4 gets 4th level maneuvers from warblade (I'd take White Raven Tactics + Iron Heart Surge), as well as up to 6th level maneuvers from swordsage.

Jade Phoenix Mage is powerful, but you're much better off with a better casting class as the base in that case, like wizard or sorcerer. The whole point of duskblade is that it doesn't need (or particularly want) gish PrCs to work.

[Pechvarry]

I dunno, JPM is still great for duskblade. I mean, what's not to like about "I'm a duskblade with ToB maneuvers"? Duskblade 13/Warblade 1 (changing around your Exotic weapon, as mentioned previously, is always cool)/JPM X is what I'd do.

I also don't really think it's fair to say "Duskblade is a subpar gish" because quite honestly, BAB 16 and 9th level spells makes you tier 1 or 2. Duskblade sits right where the community as a whole says design "ought to be".

Another great thing about Duskblade into JPM: JPM doesn't actually require maneuvers of any specific school. Just that you need 2 maneuvers, at least one strike, and a stance*. This means you can use your single Warblade level to get the White Raven stuff you love. And Iron Heart Surge if you can fit it in. Then you can use your JPM levels for Devoted Spirit maneuvers, gaining staying power (on a primary Duskblade character, the healing moves could easily be reflavored as an "arcane siphon") as well as the occasional desert wind to reinforce magical fighter-ness. All told, I'm jealous and wanna play this character.

*It occurs to me that if Stances count as maneuvers for the purposes of qualifying for higher level maneuvers, they should also qualify for anything else. So having one stance and one strike should be enough to count as knowing 2 maneuvers, thus gaining access to JPM.

[PId6]

I dunno, JPM is still great for duskblade. I mean, what's not to like about "I'm a duskblade with ToB maneuvers"? Duskblade 13/Warblade 1 (changing around your Exotic weapon, as mentioned previously, is always cool)/JPM X is what I'd do.

It's just that A) JPM doesn't come in until very high levels for duskblades (you don't want to delay full channeling), and B) it feels like wasted potential, because the benefits of duskblade, like full BAB, aren't really doing all that much if you're going into gish PrCs anyway. Ultimately, there's nothing wrong with duskblade -> JPM; it's just not the best use of JPM (which is okay).

Another great thing about Duskblade into JPM: JPM doesn't actually require maneuvers of any specific school. Just that you need 2 maneuvers, at least one strike, and a stance*. This means you can use your single Warblade level to get the White Raven stuff you love. And Iron Heart Surge if you can fit it in. Then you can use your JPM levels for Devoted Spirit maneuvers, gaining staying power (on a primary Duskblade character, the healing moves could easily be reflavored as an "arcane siphon") as well as the occasional desert wind to reinforce magical fighter-ness.

I would actually suggest Crusader if you're going into JPM. Not having to spend actions to recover maneuvers is pretty huge for gishes, since there's a wide variety of uses you can be doing with your swift actions. Besides, Crusaders get more maneuvers and Devoted Spirit by default, which means you can bypass the prereqs on higher level Devoted Spirit maneuvers when you pick them for JPM. Crusader also gets White Raven as well, if you want it.

[thorgrim29]

I was thinking about duskblade 13, swordsage 2, JPM for the duration, that way I get 2 stances, +3 to AC, +1 to initiative, and 6 manoeuvres readied. Desert wind is fun.

[true_shinken]

For high level Duskblades, I like the Wild Soul class from Complete Mage.
Gives you versatility for your spells slots, though your offense suffers...
...but you can now channel Otto's irresistible dance.
This is awesome. Whirl a spiked chain over your head and turn everyone around you into extras from Saturday Night Fever!

[Machiavellian]

For high level Duskblades, I like the Wild Soul class from Complete Mage.
Gives you versatility for your spells slots, though your offense suffers...
...but you can now channel Otto's irresistible dance.
This is awesome. Whirl a spiked chain over your head and turn everyone around you into extras from Saturday Night Fever!

I adore dipping 4 levels into Suel Archanamach, since by 13/14, duskblade can qualify (No ASF in Medium with Armored Mage becomes No ASF in heavy. With maybe a dip into fighter, you can pick up another weapon of war and get full armor proficiency) and since you have ANOTHER list of spells and spells/day, and most of these are combat spells, you shouldn't run out of spells anytime soon. And just an average CHA score is needed.