[3.5] Can I get Factotum 8 and level 9 spells in 20 levels?

[Zovc]

In 20 non-gestalt levels, can I get Factotum 8 and 9th-level spells?

Ur-Priest? I'unno...

[Eurus]

Ur-priest would definitely do it, yup.

[faceroll]

Sublime chord would, as well. Factotum's capstone might be able to snag you full casting from an obscure class, but iono....

[Zovc]

Any other options?

[faceroll]

Whitedragon spawn loredrake dragonwrough kobold with LA buyoff, improved draconic reservoir & greater rite of passage, and the spell hoarding template gets you wizard 16 casting.

Then it's just a matter of getting ninth level spells to count as 8th level spells.

[Zovc]

Whitedragon spawn loredrake dragonwrough kobold with LA buyoff, improved draconic reservoir & greater rite of passage, and the spell hoarding template gets you wizard 16 casting.

Then it's just a matter of getting ninth level spells to count as 8th level spells.

I won't even bother asking DM if that sort of cheese is allowed. :P

Sublime Chord vs Ur Priest. Who wins?

[Gorgondantess]

I won't even bother asking DM if that sort of cheese is allowed. :P

Sublime Chord vs Ur Priest. Who wins?

Ur-Priest if you like prepared or divine, sublime chord if you like spontaneous or arcane.
....That's pretty much it.

[faceroll]

I won't even bother asking DM if that sort of cheese is allowed. :P

Sublime Chord vs Ur Priest. Who wins?

2 actions a round and ninth level spells is asking for some gouda. But yes, I agree, that is some stinky, stinky cheese. I don't even think spell hoarding is a legit PC template, given that it lacks a LA adjustment.

Ur-Priest if you like prepared or divine, sublime chord if you like spontaneous or arcane.
....That's pretty much it.

Ur-priest has alignment restrictions, RAW. DM may let you get around them.

[Zovc]

Well, this is an arena game I'm in, so it's okay for me to be evil.

What homework should I do before selecting spells? Just at a glance, Energy Drain seems pretty mean.

[Tyndmyr]

Then it's just a matter of getting ninth level spells to count as 8th level spells.

Sanctum Spell would like to say hello.

[Tyndmyr]

I won't even bother asking DM if that sort of cheese is allowed. :P

Sublime Chord vs Ur Priest. Who wins?

Mystic Theurge progressing both?

[faceroll]

Well, this is an arena game I'm in, so it's okay for me to be evil.

What homework should I do before selecting spells? Just at a glance, Energy Drain seems pretty mean.

Go for debuffs and summoned creatures. Just debuff the crap out of your opponent and flood him with fiendish grapplers. Energy drain and other similar stuff is relatively easy to guard against. I would avoid that as well as enchantment effects, given how easy they are to negate (mindblank effects, prot. from evil) or avoid (by being undead).

That's what I would use in an arena game, anyway, given that you'll need effects that breach blanket immunities.

Avasculate is pretty sweet. Pretty sure clerics get it. No save, lose 1/2 your HP. I think it's in libris mortis and/or spell compendium.

[Zovc]

Mystic Theurge progressing both?

You're Naughty. I wonder if I can do that.

Factotum 8 needs +1 more to its Fortitude save before it can get into Ur Priest. Then Bard 1. Then Sublime Chord? ...then Mystic Theurge 9? That work? Can I get Bardic Music from something else/better? (Factotum 8 can cast 3rd-level spells, but I'm not sure it can qualify--they're spell-likes.)

Now I just need 19 Wisdom, 19 Charisma, and a decent Intelligence and Constitution would be nice...

[Tshern]

Well, this is an arena game I'm in, so it's okay for me to be evil.

What homework should I do before selecting spells? Just at a glance, Energy Drain seems pretty mean.

The first thing is to forget about Energy drain, it sucks.

[faceroll]

You're Naughty. I wonder if I can do that.

Factotum 8 needs +1 more to its Fortitude save before it can get into Ur Priest. Then Bard 1. Then Sublime Chord? ...then Mystic Theurge 9? That work? Can I get Bardic Music from something else/better? (Factotum 8 can cast 3rd-level spells, but I'm not sure it can qualify--they're spell-likes.)

Now I just need 19 Wisdom, 19 Charisma, and a decent Intelligence and Constitution would be nice...

You need 2nd level spells (not the factotum's Sp abilities) to qualify for mystic theurge, so you're going to have to use cheese to qualify early. Use fractional save progression, and I think bard 1/fact8 will get your required fort save.

[Tyndmyr]

You can theoretically get four nines in gestalt play by abusing rapid casting progression and dual progression classes, keeping all prcs on one side. It's a horrifically complex build, also abusing kobold cheese, but I've got a copy on the forums somewhere, going by the name of lil Timmy. Getting dual nines should be comparatively easy, even in non-gestalt.

Bardic Music is, sadly, only available by taking a class level, so far as I can tell. Taking a level in monk is an easy way to handle the save requirements. It makes the build sticky at low levels, but hey, kobold cheese helps mitigate that. I suppose you probably *could* get bardic music by creativity involving a Sarrukk, but that's sufficiently munchkiny that I'd hesitate to advise ever using it.

[Zovc]

You need 2nd level spells (not the factotum's Sp abilities) to qualify for mystic theurge, so you're going to have to use cheese to qualify early. Use fractional save progression, and I think bard 1/fact8 will get your required fort save.

So I have to do Ur-Priest 2 and Mystic Theurge 8. We are using fractional progression.

Edit: As if getting Rebuke Undead is a bad thing.

[faceroll]

You can theoretically get four nines in gestalt play by abusing rapid casting progression and dual progression classes, keeping all prcs on one side. It's a horrifically complex build, also abusing kobold cheese, but I've got a copy on the forums somewhere, going by the name of lil Timmy. Getting dual nines should be comparatively easy, even in non-gestalt.

I've seen that one. It's not really legal, but it doesn't quite break any rules.

Bardic Music is, sadly, only available by taking a class level, so far as I can tell. Taking a level in monk is an easy way to handle the save requirements. It makes the build sticky at low levels, but hey, kobold cheese helps mitigate that. I suppose you probably *could* get bardic music by creativity involving a Sarrukk, but that's sufficiently munchkiny that I'd hesitate to advise ever using it.

I think you can take a feat from Champions of Valor that lets paladins turn either their remove disease (bleh) or smite evil (cool!) into bardic music. Of course you have to worship a paladin god from Faerun.

[edit]
Yeah, it's called From Smite to Song, requires 3 ranks in perform and membership in the Harmonious Order.

[Tyndmyr]

So I have to do Ur-Priest 2 and Mystic Theurge 8. We are using fractional progression.

Fractional Progression helps.

Note that sanctum spell is quite helpful in dodging all the various requirements for casting, if you want to try to engineer your way in early.

[Zovc]

Where is Sanctum Spell?

Also, is there a handbook (or something similar) for selecting spells? Apparently this is something I will struggle with.

[Kylarra]

Warning:Use of sanctum spell in this manner may result in books being flung at you.

[Zovc]

Warning:Use of sanctum spell in this manner may result in books being flung at you.

I am kind of expecting that, I don't intend to use it, but I am curious.

[faceroll]

I am kind of expecting that, I don't intend to use it, but I am curious.

When you cast a sanctum spell in your sanctum, it counts as one level higher. It's a cheaper way than using earth spell + heighten spell. You can also use it to cast spells outside of your sanctum from lower level slots than they were intended.

Speaking of, if you went a caster like warmage, beguiler, or dread necro, you could use easy metamagic, earth spell, heighten spell, and sanctum spell to cast a spell 3 levels higher out of a slot. So you could be casting evard's black tentacles from your first level slots. Use of arcane disciple (won't work with ur-priest) will get you 9 more spells known.

[edit]
Throw in versatile spell caster and get another spell level. So fifth level spells from 1st level slots.

[Kylarra]

Complete Arcane pg 82, effectively Sanctum'd spells are considered one spell level higher if cast within your sanctum, so dubious readings of RAW allow that to qualify for "can cast Xth level spells" even though technically you can only cast X-1th level spells "normally".

[Tshern]

Heh, there are neat tricks with Sanctum spell. Like Magical training+Precocious apprentice+Sanctum spell that allows you to enter prestige classes requiring third level arcane spells as a divine caster. Be ready to dodge the flying DMG though.

[Endarire]

Beholder Mage (Lords of Madness) is uber if you can qualify. Beholder Mage/Sublime Cord is even more so.

[Tshern]

Beholder Mage (Lords of Madness) is uber if you can qualify. Beholder Mage/Sublime Cord is even more so.

Again, be sure to acquire protection from blunt objects before you introduce your DM to your character sheet.

[Morph Bark]

I won't even bother asking DM if that sort of cheese is allowed. :P

Sublime Chord vs Ur Priest. Who wins?

Factotum 8/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 9?

[Tyndmyr]

Heh, there are neat tricks with Sanctum spell. Like Magical training+Precocious apprentice+Sanctum spell that allows you to enter prestige classes requiring third level arcane spells as a divine caster. Be ready to dodge the flying DMG though.

My favorite involves applying to cantrips for wand crafting outside the sanctum. Negative half a lvl spell, meaning you MAKE money and xp crafting them. Also, it makes books fly.

[Douglas]

If the goal is multiple standard actions per round rather than specifically Factotum 8, Swiftblade can do it without complicated cheese and loses only 3 levels of casting (if you stop at level 9 for Perpetual Options), leaving a simple wizard build at 17th level casting and 9th level spells.