Armor Doesn't Fatigue When You Just Rest? [3.5]

[Temotei]

Sleeping in Armor
A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a -2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.

Here.

So, does this mean simply resting (not sleeping) in medium or heavy armor will not fatigue you?

[Spiryt]

Here.

So, does this mean simply resting (not sleeping) in medium or heavy armor will not fatigue you?

Is there something like "only resting" in 3.5 mechanics?

[Dr.Epic]

If you're looking armor that won't let you get fatigued, there is Armor of the Unending Hunt from Complete Warrior.

[Ernir]

Yup. It's the stuff you need to do to regain arcane spell slots, naturally heal HP, and such. Requiring sleep rather than just rest would be a bit unfair to things that don't sleep, like elves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure there is any benefit to actually sleeping.

[Temotei]

Is there something like "only resting" in 3.5 mechanics?

Sleeping isn't required to restore hit points or spell slots, but resting is.

If you're looking armor that won't let you get fatigued, there is Armor of the Unending Hunt from Complete Warrior.

Nah. I'm just curious.

Yup. It's the stuff you need to do to regain arcane spell slots, naturally heal HP, and such. Requiring sleep rather than just rest would be a bit unfair to things that don't sleep, like elves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure there is any benefit to actually sleeping.

I don't think there is, actually. It's just assumed that when you rest, you're sleeping, but it doesn't actually say you're sleeping, so...yeah. You could just be rather relaxed for eight hours.

[Spiryt]

Sleeping isn't required to restore hit points or spell slots, but resting is.

Still, I would say that any attempts at "just resting" instead of sleeping would just be lawyerish attempts at 'optimizing'

I would say, no to the thread title, aside from the fact that you need to sleep from time to time to rest, armor on 24/7 doesn't help.

[Oracle_Hunter]

*facepalm*

I'll just add this to the list, after "Buckets of Healing" but before Pun-Pun

[ScionoftheVoid]

That seems to be true. I'm running a game soon so that's good to know, though it probably won't come up. Nice work finding something new!

[drengnikrafe]

Something similar has been done to this. Rather than avoiding armor penalty, though, they were working towards another goal in the time gained.

[thompur]

My books are currently in storage, but, as I recall, in MIC there is a crystal that you can attach to magic armor* that lets you sleep in armor and still be rested, with no penalties.


*I believe the Crystals can only be attached to magic armor, I could be wrong.

[Ernir]

My books are currently in storage, but, as I recall, in MIC there is a crystal that you can attach to magic armor* that lets you sleep in armor and still be rested, with no penalties.


*I believe the Crystals can only be attached to magic armor, I could be wrong.

Restful Crystal, 500GP.

It counts as a least crystal, so it can be attached to any armor of masterwork quality.

[Aroka]

*facepalm*

I'll just add this to the list, after "Buckets of Healing" but before Pun-Pun

The big list of idiots pretending the game should have explicit rules for every facet of life, whether it's significant or not, and whether it's altered from baseline reality or not?

[Coidzor]

*facepalm*

I'll just add this to the list, after "Buckets of Healing" but before Pun-Pun

Alphabetically it'd go on before "B" for Buckets, due to being "A" for Armor.

[FMArthur]

This really isn't a big deal, but I guess it is something to be said for elven warriors, who need the help anyway. It's probably not a rules loophole since the rules distinguish between just 'resting' and sleeping. It's a miniscule advantage for races that don't need to sleep. I don't know why you'd even associate this with Pun-Pun or healing-by-drowning.

[Rin_Hunter]

In one of the Dragon magazine OotS comics, I'm sure this has been made fun of, along with eating only once every 3 days to avoid starvation and not bathing because there's no downside to being dirty.

[thompur]

Restful Crystal, 500GP.

It counts as a least crystal, so it can be attached to any armor of masterwork quality.

That's the one.
Thanks Ernir!

So just get arestful crystal. Problem solved.

[Coidzor]

Oh gods.... I just imagined the dead parrot sketch. x.x

[Greenish]

Still, I would say that any attempts at "just resting" instead of sleeping would just be lawyerish attempts at 'optimizing'

Damn those warforged/elves/elans! They're all just lawyerishly optimizing!

[Marnath]

I should think that "resting" in armor would still be just as uncomfortable as sleeping in it, because presumably you're sitting/kneeling in it, which is something it wasn't designed for so corners and things jab into you. I suppose if you really want to know what it's like you could ask some of those medieval reinactors to try it out, see how tired they are in the morning from sitting in armor vs. lying down in it all night.
Actually come to think of it, there are rules for this. You have to make fort saves vs. fatigue for a certain period of time beyond 24 hours in which you haven't slept/tranced.

[Temotei]

I should think that "resting" in armor would still be just as uncomfortable as sleeping in it, because presumably you're sitting/kneeling in it, which is something it wasn't designed for so corners and things jab into you. I suppose if you really want to know what it's like you could ask some of those medieval reinactors to try it out, see how tired they are in the morning from sitting in armor vs. lying down in it all night.
Actually come to think of it, there are rules for this. You have to make fort saves vs. fatigue for a certain period of time beyond 24 hours in which you haven't slept/tranced.

D&D 3.5, however, isn't reality. It doesn't matter what logic says when the rules say otherwise! Until the DM says so.

Do you have a link to that sleep rule?

[The Rose Dragon]

I don't know about the books, but in SRD, there are two references to sleeping where magic is not involved: that armor clause and hustling. Apparently, you can't hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles without taking nonlethal damage and getting fatigued.

Other than that, can't find any rules on sleeping that doesn't involve spells or magic items or supernatural abilities.

[Andion Isurand]

I wonder if it means elves can trance in any armor without penalty.

[Oracle_Hunter]

The big list of idiots pretending the game should have explicit rules for every facet of life, whether it's significant or not, and whether it's altered from baseline reality or not?

Y'see, the problem is that WotC wrote their game poorly.

Spoiler

Show

First they create a defined term ("resting") to fix one problem ("elves and warforged don't sleep, how do they recover spells?").

Then they attempt to create verisimilitude by adding penalties for "sleeping" in armor.

And then they don't bother to either alter their term of art ("resting") to include sleeping OR define the term "sleeping" to include "resting." This is why you have so many RAW arguments in 3.5 - half the rules are written like a legalistic rules text and the other half are written in layman terms. You lose both the clarity of legal text while adding the confusion that comes from implied textual canons to lay-speech! And it would have been so easy to just add a single line "Resting in armor invokes the same penalties as sleeping in armor" - if that's even what they meant to do!

Heck, can you even say that WotC intended resting in heavy armor to impose the same penalties as sleeping in it? Before I read their definition of Rest and the rule regarding Sleep & Armor I would have assumed that they did - but now I have as much a reason to assume otherwise! And why are there rules for penalties for going without food or drink but not sleep? It's not that uncommon an occurrence after all - much more common than getting turned to stone and we have rules for that!

So no, I'm not "pretending" the game was written to cover all aspects of life - I'm pointing out that arbitrarily picking-and-choosing which mundane aspects of life to treat as rules-worthy is going to result in absurd results like "buckets of healing" and this case

[Marnath]

D&D 3.5, however, isn't reality. It doesn't matter what logic says when the rules say otherwise! Until the DM says so.

Do you have a link to that sleep rule?

I can't find it now! I could have sworn it was in somewhere with the rules for regaining spells or forced marching. The way i remember it being worded is something like: "there are no rules for working hard and exerting yourself throughout the day because it is assumed most adventurer's can handle a normal amount of exertion is any given 24 hour period. Beyond that, every hour you go without sleeping calls for a DC(something) fort save vs fatigue, with a cumulative +1 to the DC every time you succeed. On a failed save you become fatigued. further failed checks result if exhaustion." I can't find it anywhere though! *sob* I can't have imagined something like that, can I?

[Eloel]

I can't find it now! I could have sworn it was in somewhere with the rules for regaining spells or forced marching. The way i remember it being worded is something like: "there are no rules for working hard and exerting yourself throughout the day because it is assumed most adventurer's can handle a normal amount of exertion is any given 24 hour period. Beyond that, every hour you go without sleeping calls for a DC(something) fort save vs fatigue, with a cumulative +1 to the DC every time you succeed. On a failed save you become fatigued. further failed checks result if exhaustion." I can't find it anywhere though! *sob* I can't have imagined something like that, can I?

Did you check Rules Compendium? Away from my books, I can't check, but it's a possibility..

[Rin_Hunter]

Did you check Rules Compendium? Away from my books, I can't check, but it's a possibility..

The Rules Compendium doesn't change anything. You sleep in armour to become fatigued and you can rest in order to heal and regain magic.

[Marnath]

I don't even know where to find the rules compendium, so i doubt i saw it there. Perhaps i am remembering some sort of homebrew idea posed by a person in a previous thread on this topic?

[2xMachina]

Next, you'd be resting standing up with your eyes open, and weapon in your hands.

[Greenish]

Next, you'd be resting standing up with your eyes open, and weapon in your hands.

It's very relaxing.

Besides, isn't that how warforged casters rest?

[Tyndmyr]

Then they attempt to create verisimilitude by adding penalties for "sleeping" in armor.

Which is odd, because properly fitted armor is actually not at all a problem to sleep in.