Spheres and Specialties [3.5/Prime20]

[alchemyprime]

So I was doing more work on Prime20 (no, you can't see, it isn't done yet) and I came to a dead end:

Clerics, Wizards and Doo-dads- Er... Druids, are too darn powerful. And I didn't want to nerf them, but I have to. The problem isn't the classes themselves, or their spell lists, it's the fact that they get EVERYTHING. Sorcerers, Bards and Warlocks are easier because they have to pick what they want. Paladins I can deal with because their list is smaller. Rangers I made into Martial Adepts because it was cooler.

But what to do about those Tier 1 classes? Well, I decided: I need to make Spheres for the Clerics and Druids, and Specialties for the wizards.

All wizards will be specialists. Specializing does not mean you get the whole school as a bonus spell. You get once small list of spells exemplifying a concept or school, and your bonus spell is from that.

Also, every wizard can only use one spellbook a day to prepare spells from. Meaning that the wizard going "Oh, well I will just go through every book I have" will not be able to. We give him 100 pages to write spells on, besides the basic Cantrips pages in the back, and when he's done, he gets the spells to set up. Meaning a spellbook can only hold so many spells, so if he wants to get more for his money, he needs to set up his spellbooks carefully.

But he'll always have his specialty spells.


As for Clerics and Druids, we're going back to how it was in 2e: Every god will grant you access to Spheres, and these Spheres will determine what spells you can cast.

The only problem is dividing them up into each area.

Any input you Playgrounders have would be mighty appreciated!

[Caphi]

I've been considering this idea exactly, at least the part about wizards. It does a number on their ability to rewrite their spell list daily, but without any other reaching modifications, it still makes a wizard equivalent to approximately as many sorcerors as he has spellbooks.

[alchemyprime]

I've been considering this idea exactly, at least the part about wizards. It does a number on their ability to rewrite their spell list daily, but without any other reaching modifications, it still makes a wizard equivalent to approximately as many sorcerors as he has spellbooks.

That's exactly why I was doing it. It essentially turns the wizard, at least at high levels, into the guy with multiple spell lists, instead of the guy with a huge spell list.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Wait, so for clerics + druids do you ONLY get to cast from your sphere? Or can it be more like, at least 50% of each level out of your sphere.

[alchemyprime]

Wait, so for clerics + druids do you ONLY get to cast from your sphere? Or can it be more like, at least 50% of each level out of your sphere.

Well, all clerics will have a "Universal" sphere to cast out of too. A list of kinda useful spells that all can use, and then your spheres on top of that.

So let's say your god is Pelor.

Pelor is a god of Strength, Good (or Evil if he's Burning Hate) Light, and Healing. So you get two of those spheres (you'll pick more later), and the Universal Sphere. You will also get the Blessing of that Sphere.

So for Light, you'll get a nice spread of spells added to your spell list (at least 3 or 4 of each level), and a bonus power. So Spheres are kind of like bigger domains. But without special slots.

[Eldan]

If you want, I've started doing some of the work of collecting spells from various sources for you:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160051

[alchemyprime]

If you want, I've started doing some of the work of collecting spells from various sources for you:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160051

Well, I was looking at them and I like what you did and then I hadn an epiphany:

Most things in Prime20 (my fixes) are Tiered. Not like the classes, those I aim to stick on Tier 2 and walk away. I mean most class abilities. Warlocks get invocations in 4 tiers, Fighters, Rogues, Barbarians and Knights get Talents in 5 tiers, etc.

So I thought "Why can't I copy the 4 tier progression for spells?" It makes more sense for a game that everyone can get to 20

So all Spheres have 4 tiers: Least, Lesser, Greater and Holy (Or Unholy, or Primordial, based on your god).

Least Tier is a small ability, and has spells of 0 to 2nd.
Lesser has a slightly better ability and 3rd to 5th.
Greater is even better and goes from 6th to 8th.
Holy is the 9th level spells, and the best ability. Every cleric will only have one Holy sphere.

I think 3 or 4 spheres total is best. One Holy, One Greater and Two Lessers seems best as the final count, as well as Universal as Holy, and one least and Universal at Least at beginning. The clerics get a more variable spell list, they feel like they got to pick more, and there are now no more all cleric spells besides one little sphere with no powers.

How's that sound?