Mystic Theurge?

[WarKitty]

What's the earliest possible entry you could get into mystic theurge? I'm looking for something actually playable in a campaign, so no really broken cheese please.

Edit: Further restrictions, no evil, must be human.

[Snake-Aes]

What's the earliest possible entry you could get into mystic theurge? I'm looking for something actually playable in a campaign, so no really broken cheese please.

What is "Broken Cheese"? I have seen it as early as "wizard 3". Sometimes Wizard 3 / Some-Divine-Caster 1.

[WarKitty]

What is "Broken Cheese"? I have seen it as early as "wizard 3". Sometimes Wizard 3 / Some-Divine-Caster 1.

Try to keep it roughly within RAI. I just put that in case someone figures out how to pun-pun their way in or something.

The character background is a young noblewoman who was trained in magic after showing early talent. Following a civil war, she was placed with a temple for her own protection, and now seeks to combine both her arcane and divine power to help others.

Oh that's the other restriction, no evil alignments.

[arguskos]

Well, I think it's actually possible to do it as a Wizard 3, though that's kinda tough to justify, and to do, IIRC.

My standard entry is Wizard 1/Archivist 3. Use Precocious Apprentice to get 2nd level Wizard casting, and love your Int synergy.

[fryplink]

Well, I think it's actually possible to do it as a Wizard 3, though that's kinda tough to justify, and to do, IIRC.

My standard entry is Wizard 1/Archivist 3. Use Precocious Apprentice to get 2nd level Wizard casting, and love your Int synergy.

Will that give you 9th level spells in at least one class by 20?

[Magikeeper]

I used an Illumian with Improved Sigil Krau to get in with Wizard 2/Archivist 1. The mini practiced spellcaster Krau gives is also nice, and it has the advantage of being one of the most unambiguous ways of qualifying.


Either level 4 or 5 is when you should be taking your first level of MT, IMO.


Edit: Hmm... doesn't fit with backstory, although illumians are humanoids with the human subtype.

[arguskos]

Will that give you 9th level spells in at least one class by 20?

Depending on the precise build, yeah. If you do Wiz 1/Archivist 3/MT 10/something that advances Archivist or Wizard 6, you can get either Wiz 17/Archivist 10 or Wiz 11/Archivist 19. Pick your favorite.

[WarKitty]

Will that give you 9th level spells in at least one class by 20?

We don't need to be optimized here, no one else will be.

[Snake-Aes]

We don't need to be optimized here, no one else will be.

Almost any theurge build that doesn't split casting advancement after theurge10 gets to cast lvl 9 spells at 20. It kinda takes a deliberate effort at sucking to lose it.

[arguskos]

We don't need to be optimized here, no one else will be.

For example, intended entry (Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 10/whatever 4) can give you 9ths at 20th level. *shrug* You're getting 9ths.

Also, asking for early entry MT and saying "we don't need to be optimized here" is silly, since you're asking for Op.

[WarKitty]

For example, intended entry (Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 10/whatever 4) can give you 9ths at 20th level. *shrug* You're getting 9ths.

Also, asking for early entry MT and saying "we don't need to be optimized here" is silly, since you're asking for Op.

LOL ok clarification...I would like to get into it at level 4 or so rather than level 7 or 8. However I don't need to be the bestest magick user evar!!!, just a relatively competent one.

[Snake-Aes]

At 4 will demand megacheese. Wizard1/archivist3 lets you get into it at 5 just fine. After that you just pick back either class and progress it to the end.

[Kylarra]

I'd go arcane hierophant instead of MT, use an early entry trick and finish off your casting with MT.

[Analytica]

Semi-official or official sources (on the WotC official site) says Precocious Apprentice cannot be used this way. Instead, I recommend Alternate Source Spell from Dragon Magazine #325. It requires arcane and divine casting, and allows a spell prepared from an arcane class to count as divine and vice versa.

With that, there are several options. Archivist 1/Wizard 3 qualifies for Mystic Theurge. However, Druid 3/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 6/Arcane Hierophant 10 casts as a Druid 19/Wizard 17, getting ninth-level spells in both classes by lvl 20.

Even without Alternate Source Spell, Druid 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 4/Arcane Hierophant (from Races of the Wild) gets double ninths by lvl 20.

[Lans]

That works better if you take 2 or so levels of MT before you take Arcane Hieraphant, as it has requirements that are harder to break into.

[herrhauptmann]

LOL ok clarification...I would like to get into it at level 4 or so rather than level 7 or 8. However I don't need to be the bestest magick user evar!!!, just a relatively competent one.

Not a problem, using regular entry, you're actually going to be a poor caster.
At 7th level (assuming arcane3/divine3) you cast as a 4th level arcane, and a 4th level divine character. So you're 3 levels behind a regular caster. And probably 5 or more levels behind any boss figure who is also a caster.

At 16th level, (arcane3/divine3/MT10) you cast as a 13th level caster in each. 4 more levels in either your arcane or divine casting will grant you 9th level spells in a single portion of your casting, which you get at level 20.
That's all assuming no cheese.
Correct me if there's any mistakes:
First level of cheese is being evil and going Ur-priest before Theurge. So MT advances Urpriest, which reaches 9th level casting in 10 levels of a PrC, allowing you to focus on your arcane spells after finishing MT.

[Zaydos]

With that, there are several options. Archivist 1/Wizard 3 qualifies for Mystic Theurge. However, Druid 3/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 6/Arcane Hierophant 10 casts as a Druid 19/Wizard 17, getting ninth-level spells in both classes by lvl 20.

Even without Alternate Source Spell, Druid 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 4/Arcane Hierophant (from Races of the Wild) gets double ninths by lvl 20.

And a snazzy animal companion (or at least one of a 13th level druid).

[Teron]

The archivist is available here, by the way, if you don't have Heroes of Horror. It seems like the perfect class for you since, besides the Int synergy, it's a logical way for a character who started as a wizard to approach divine magic.

There are ways to trade away the wizard's redundant Scribe Scroll feat, if you don't think that's "optimizing too much". Off the top of my head (and available online), you can take a fighter feat instead (Improved Initiative is the default choice), or Augment Summoning if you're a conjurer.

You may be familiar with these already, but I thought it couldn't hurt.

[Kosjsjach]

An easy and clean method could be an illumian with the Subtle Sigil feat at 1st, and the Improved Sigil (Krau) at 3rd. I'll +1 the Archivist/Wizard combo for Int synergy.

I know you want to be human, but your type would literally be "humanoid (human)", and (with DM permission) fluff it as, as an infant, you underwent an arcane ritual and it manifested as magical talent. You may not even know your predicament. Gives a cool personal hook, too.

[WarKitty]

Ok starting a new thread, it seems on further reflection what I want is not quite what I was asking in the first place. The difficulty is in converting a pre-established character into 3.5, hence the lack of flexibility in certain areas. Thanks for the help gamers!