Villainous PrCs -- best and worst

[thirdkingdom]

I'm looking for advice on which PrCs are the best to use with bad guys (and which to avoid at all costs). Assume Core plus the Completes, but no uber-optimization to keep it easy for me; I figure at most 2 classes and one or two PrCs for major baddies, one or two classes and one PrCs for lesser characters. As a side note, which PrCs provide the best flavor and don't suck too badly?

Todd

[Machiavellian]

I'm looking for advice on which PrCs are the best to use with bad guys (and which to avoid at all costs). Assume Core plus the Completes, but no uber-optimization to keep it easy for me; I figure at most 2 classes and one or two PrCs for major baddies, one or two classes and one PrCs for lesser characters. As a side note, which PrCs provide the best flavor and don't suck too badly?

Todd

Look at Book of Vile Darkness

[Boci]

Any class can be a bad guy, so you can really help us with some guidlines. Personally, in a vacuum, I think casters are the best for a bad guy, since they can generally do more to hinder the PCs, plus with a BBEG warrior it can be hard for him to threatan any significant area, and usually you're BBEG will have at least decent mental states.

[Dr.Epic]

Assassin: what other PrC has to force you to kill someone for no other reason other than joining the class?

[Boci]

Assassin: what other PrC has to force you to kill someone for no other reason other than joining the class?

All of the Devil Desciple and Demon Thrall PrC for starters. BoCV. (Book of Cliche Villains)

[Mongoose87]

Risen Martyr is the best PrC, for villains, because, once your nemesis has taken it, the only thing keeping you from global domination is throwing endless waves of nameless henchmen at him until he gains the class feature: Dead.

[RickGriffin]

Soul Eater (BoVD): for an evil monstrous humanoid. Was planning on using this for an evil campaign with a half-minotaur monk. Just as a one-level dip. You drain a level with a touch attack.

I am not quite sure what the ruling is, but every hit from an unarmed strike counts the same as a touch attack if I recall. So every touch-attack hit you make would drain one level. So then all you have to do is max out your # of attacks.

This may not strictly be kosher.

[thirdkingdom]

I guess I'm just curious about PrCs that seem geared towards evil NPCs. For instance, is blackguard worthwhile? I've gotten some ideas from BoVD, but am wondering what the experience of other's has been.

Todd

[Boci]

Soul Eater (BoVD): for an evil monstrous humanoid. Was planning on using this for an evil campaign with a half-minotaur monk. Just as a one-level dip. You drain a level with a touch attack.

I am not quite sure what the ruling is, but every hit from an unarmed strike counts the same as a touch attack if I recall. So every touch-attack hit you make would drain one level. So then all you have to do is max out your # of attacks.

This may not strictly be kosher.

Complete arcane says you can target an opponet's regular AC to add unarmed damage to what is normally a touch attack, but I have never heard of the rule you described.

I guess I'm just curious about PrCs that seem geared towards evil NPCs. For instance, is blackguard worthwhile? I've gotten some ideas from BoVD, but am wondering what the experience of other's has been.

Todd

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...7&topic=5198.0

That should tell you how powerful each PrC is. Overall, BoVD did pretty well, but if you believe PrC should equal base class you may be disapointed.

[Harris the Ford]

Soul Eater (BoVD): for an evil monstrous humanoid. Was planning on using this for an evil campaign with a half-minotaur monk. Just as a one-level dip. You drain a level with a touch attack.

I am not quite sure what the ruling is, but every hit from an unarmed strike counts the same as a touch attack if I recall. So every touch-attack hit you make would drain one level. So then all you have to do is max out your # of attacks.

This may not strictly be kosher.

Improved Unarmed Strike allows you to deliver weaponlike spells with an unarmed attack. Doesnt make it a touch attack though, only in the sense that you are "touching" them. You still deal the level drain when you hit them, and when you make the touch attack, but you cant deal full unarmed damage on a touch attack this way.

source: complete arcane/dmg


edit: back on topic

Blackguard is always a classic. I have a blackguard with levels in Doomlord (manual of the planes) for some tasty, tasty flavor.

[NekoJoker]

It all really depends on which type of villain you want. I personally love the Xanathos type of villains but that's just my guess.

All in all you should divide the Bad Guys into types, maybe you want a Plotter type (namely a caster...) Illithids come to mind, use some scrying on the characters to keep them on check, always be one step ahead of them, when you have acces to divination that's rather easy.

Life Drinker from BoVD seems nice for caster types, you absorb life to power up your spells... sets up nicely for cult-like activities. The thralls are also nice, but have sucky Caster Progression

If you want essentially Evil PrC Use the BoVD or the Masters of Madness, those are plenty evil on their own.

If you want a lot of muscle, then you need the Dragon. That's a significantly less charismatic/inteligent/wise type of villain ... that can punch you into oblivion with half a punch. Use it for muscle. On that side, Mortal Hunter, Soul Eater and disciple of Juiblex are rather good.

Now, this all come from the BoVD, which is a bit cliched, but has much of the flavour you need.

In my mind, Bards can be plenty evil... after all specially if they are charming, even to the players... once again, I love the Xanathos type of villain.

Let us know a little bit more about what you are looking for.

[aivanther]

Thrall herd: there's just to much awesome to be had there. Dominate a beholder for Days/ml. Then get yourself two thralls and a horde of believers as fanatical minions willing to throw themselves between the thrall herd and any threat to absorb what damage they can. Pick up empathic transfer, hostile, and give any damage to your believers. All sorts of fun and evil things possible.

[Boci]

Life Drinker from BoVD seems nice for caster types, you absorb life to power up your spells... sets up nicely for cult-like activities. The thralls are also nice, but have sucky Caster Progression

If by "sucky" you mean absolutely nothing what so ever, then yes. They are pretty sweet in gestalt though.

In my mind, Bards can be plenty evil... after all specially if they are charming, even to the players... once again, I love the Xanathos type of villain.

Heroes of Horror had some pretty good brief ideas for how each core class + the EXH's could be villains.

[RickGriffin]

Improved Unarmed Strike allows you to deliver weaponlike spells with an unarmed attack. Doesnt make it a touch attack though, only in the sense that you are "touching" them. You still deal the level drain when you hit them, and when you make the touch attack, but you cant deal full unarmed damage on a touch attack this way.

source: complete arcane/dmg

I thought so; my impression was from the other player being munchkiny again

[TooManyBadgers]

Paladin/Radiant Servant/that sort of thing are definitely my favorites for a BBEG. They can be much more memorable villains than Evil Wizard #17. They're just as easy to overdo, though.

Shadowdancer is fun for a quirky villain's sidekick; very good at creepy sneaky stuff, very good at getting away from the players. Not much for BBEG material, though.

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is also really good. Strong defenses are typically what I go for in climactic fights, because D&D3.X battles have a penchant for ending in the first round or two. Iot7V is very good at dragging fights out a bit, which is usually my goal with BBEG battles.

Polymorphers and summoners are also fun in various roles, but the paperwork is kind of a turn-off.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Soul Eater: Stylish, deadly, gruesome, and badass.

Necrocarnate: Torture the souls of the past, present, and future for fun and profit.

Blighter: Sure, kind of goofy, and not that good, but a crazed anti-druid is a cool concept in my book.

Illithid Savant: The brain connoisseur of mind flayers. The way the class is designed, each encounter could be different as your nemesis consumes new brains and gains new abilities.

Mortal Hunter: For outsiders, usually demons or devils. It just *sounds* cool and ominous.

Thrallherd: I second this one. The titular psionic domination class.

Beholder Mage: Do I even need to explain why this is terrifying?

[Wings of Peace]

Vermin Lord. Can you say 'The H.I.V.E.'?

[The Glyphstone]

Definitely Thrallherd. PCs already treat their followers and henchmen as disposable meat, this gives you the mechanical traits to do so!

[Thurbane]

Soul Eater (BoVD): for an evil monstrous humanoid. Was planning on using this for an evil campaign with a half-minotaur monk. Just as a one-level dip. You drain a level with a touch attack.

I am not quite sure what the ruling is, but every hit from an unarmed strike counts the same as a touch attack if I recall. So every touch-attack hit you make would drain one level. So then all you have to do is max out your # of attacks.

This may not strictly be kosher.

I've got a Soul Eater MBEG in my current camapign - Spellwarped Worg called Grimfang...he's proven quite a challenge for my group.

[Postmodernist]

Master of Shrouds is a favorite of mine, especially in the 10ish level range when the class hits its sweet spot. Not necessarily required to be the ultimate BBEG, but definitely an excellent choice for a lieutenant.

[GoatBoy]

Okay, I didn't read what you said about "PrC" or "Core plus Complete" so I'm going to suggest a Beguiler (PHB2). They work great as a single threat or as mob bosses, plus they can slink away when the fight doesn't go so well. They can present a very real threat against low Will save types when the party's numbers go down by one and yours go up. Plus they have the almighty Halt and Stay The Hand. And if that isn't enough, they have UMD.

Sorry for blatantly ignoring your source request, but if you have the time, I seriously suggest giving the Beguiler a look.