@3.5@ Most Natural Weapons on Any PC (First Time Posting. Be Kind!)

[SonOfJubilex]

Hullo Playgrounders. This is my first post ever on this forum (I'm new to the forums thing)

In a new campaign the DM is throwing us into, he plans to run a "Tomb of Horrors" (whatever that is)- like campaign.

So the idea hit me of "What if I made a PC who could use Every (or nearly every) type of natural weapon in one round?"

So here's my questions:

1. What would the race/class be like. He says we start off 21st level, and no casters.

2. Would Souleater be applicable here, since if he isn't Humanoid, and has a lot of Natural Weaps, he could literally do a lot of Negative Levels

Books Allowed: Any but Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords and Tome of Magic.

Houserules: No Casters or partial casters. He's running a "magic-free" campaign, throwing mostly Orcs, Drow, and Hobgoblins at us. Triple-Threat rule (3 nat 20's and insta-kill)

[Math_Mage]

...not sure how he's going to accomplish the Tomb of Horrors feel without magic ("Haha, Sphere of Annihilation in the statue's mo--wait a second...").

Soul Eater would indeed be applicable. Feral template, Aberrant feats, etc. Go to town.

[Alleine]

I've heard good things about the totemist in Magic of Incarnum, but have never personally used it. Lots of soulmelds provide natural attacks.

You could also go the cheesy route and make a shapechanging somethingorother with full BAB 4/warshaper 1. Their morphic weapons ability says nothing about duration or limit to how many weapons you can grow, allowing you to grow, say, a set of claws, a horn, teeth, wings, a tail, and as many tentacles as your heart desires.
Good luck getting away with that though.

[Master_Rahl22]

You definitely want a leas some levels of Totemist. You should start as a Warforged (Eberron Campaign Setting), Shifter(ECS), or Skarn(Magic of Incarnum) since they are all good races for a Totemist and have natural weapons to start with. You can get a tail attack, bite, multiple claws, Warforged have a slam, etc.

[Prime32]

The Deepspawn feat will get you two tentacles (has Aberration Blood or Mournland Mutate as a prereq). Draconic Tail (1st-level only, requires Dragon type or dragonblood subtype) will get you a tail slap.

Claws, bites and slams are relatively easy to get.

[drakir_nosslin]

If you're going for as many natural attacks as possible, make sure that you get pounce as well (Barbarian ACF for example), it will make you a lot more useful.

[ex cathedra]

Warshaper is pretty good for this. All you need is move actions and a little imagination. If you're responsible enough to show some restraint, however, it's still a great class.

[BobVosh]

...not sure how he's going to accomplish the Tomb of Horrors feel without magic ("Haha, Sphere of Annihilation in the statue's mo--wait a second...").

Soul Eater would indeed be applicable. Feral template, Aberrant feats, etc. Go to town.

HAHAH, a monk thread is in the statue's mouth.

[DragoonWraith]

At low-ish levels, Totemist (Magic of Incarnum) has by far the most natural attacks. From what I understand though, at high-ish levels, the Psychic Warrior overtakes him.

[Math_Mage]

HAHAH, a monk thread is in the statue's mouth.

Augh!

Anyway, I think most of the Incarnum/Psionics suggestions might be in contravention of the spirit, if not the letter, of the "no casters/partial casters" rule.

Hence I submit the Wildshape Ranger for consideration.

[Greenish]

Anyway, I think most of the Incarnum/Psionics suggestions might be in contravention of the spirit, if not the letter, of the "no casters/partial casters" rule.

I agree that Psionics is pretty castery, but Incarnum really isn't.

[Escheton]

Alternate kobold with claws, bite and slight build.
Totemist for even more natural attack (if it doesnt specifically state it is an action to use), multi attack

[Greenish]

Alternate kobold with claws, bite and slight build.
Totemist for even more natural attack (if it doesnt specifically state it is an action to use), multi attack

Kobolds also qualify for Dragon Tail, and with Dragonwrought for the extra claw attacks granting feats.

[Morph Bark]

I've heard good things about the totemist in Magic of Incarnum, but have never personally used it. Lots of soulmelds provide natural attacks.

You could also go the cheesy route and make a shapechanging somethingorother with full BAB 4/warshaper 1. Their morphic weapons ability says nothing about duration or limit to how many weapons you can grow, allowing you to grow, say, a set of claws, a horn, teeth, wings, a tail, and as many tentacles as your heart desires.
Good luck getting away with that though.

You definitely want a leas some levels of Totemist. You should start as a Warforged (Eberron Campaign Setting), Shifter(ECS), or Skarn(Magic of Incarnum) since they are all good races for a Totemist and have natural weapons to start with. You can get a tail attack, bite, multiple claws, Warforged have a slam, etc.

At low-ish levels, Totemist (Magic of Incarnum) has by far the most natural attacks. From what I understand though, at high-ish levels, the Psychic Warrior overtakes him.

If the campaign is magic-free, Incarnum won't work. If the campaign is simply caster-free, then yeah.

[Flickerdart]

morbo.jpg

Soul Eater does not work that way! Good night!

(Su) abilities, unless specified, are a standard action. The Soul Eater, thus, must spend a standard action and make a touch attack to inflict his negative level.

[WinWin]

A Necrotic Focus weapon works with Soul Eater. It explicity allows Energy Drain to be channeled through weapon attacks, allowing for iteratives.

As for Energy Drain as a Soul Eater, it works on a touch. That means the Soul Eater can take a standard action to make a melee touch attack. They can also take a standard action to make a natural attack to deliver Energy Drain in addition to normal damage. They also have the option of delivering Energy Drain via a full attack, inflicting a Negative Level with every natural attack that hits.

The relevant details on Touch Attacks should be in the 3.5 PHB or CArc from memory.

There is a Thri-Kreen variant in one of the MM's, 2 or 3 from memory. Non psionic, so should get past the no casters rule. 2HD +1 LA. 4 claws and a bite.

[Math_Mage]

I agree that Psionics is pretty castery, but Incarnum really isn't.

Nor is ToB, but, well...

[Flickerdart]

A Necrotic Focus weapon works with Soul Eater. It explicity allows Energy Drain to be channeled through weapon attacks, allowing for iteratives.

As for Energy Drain as a Soul Eater, it works on a touch. That means the Soul Eater can take a standard action to make a melee touch attack. They can also take a standard action to make a natural attack to deliver Energy Drain in addition to normal damage. They also have the option of delivering Energy Drain via a full attack, inflicting a Negative Level with every natural attack that hits.

The relevant details on Touch Attacks should be in the 3.5 PHB or CArc from memory.

Oh, do quote the relevant rules text.

[kestrel404]

My suggestion is to make two characters. One for the 'no casters' option, the other for the 'no magic' option.

For No Casters: Goliath (Races of Stone) with the templates Feral (Savage Species) and Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313, or the Crystalkeep Templates pdf). So your 'race' is Feral Half-Minotaur Goliath. This makes you Large size (10' reach with natural weapons!), and that combined with powerful build gives you Claw/Claw/Gore (2d8/2d8/2d6) for natural attacks. With Level-adjustment buyoff (Unearthed Arcana), you still get 21 character class levels.
Then, you take 21 levels of Totemist (Magic of Incarnum). This is a class that basically specializes in natural attacks. One thing you want for sure is Totem Avatar, bound to your shoulders, which will increase your natural attacks to (4d6/4d6/2d8). Then take the Improved Natural Attack feat for Claws and Gore attacks (you'll need to take it twice) for (6d6/6d6/4d6) damage.
If your GM is not giving out wealth/magic items/whatever to starting characters, your first 2 feats should be Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty (from Book of Exalted Deeds). That will give you a reasonable amount of AC, attack bonuses, attribute adjustments, etc. for level 21 characters.

For No Magic: Doing a no-magic campaign in the Epic range is pretty unreasonable, but you're probably going to want to start off mostly the same. Go with the same race, then 11 levels of barbarian and 10 levels of War Hulk (miniatures handbook). If you put 18 in strength and then rage, your strength bonus will be +26. That's the bonus, not the attribute. And that's before equipment.

Hope that helps.

[Prime32]

Goliath (Races of Stone) with the templates Feral (Savage Species) and Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313, or the Crystalkeep Templates pdf). So your 'race' is Feral Half-Minotaur Goliath. This makes you Large size (10' reach with natural weapons!), and that combined with powerful build gives you Claw/Claw/Gore (2d8/2d8/2d6) for natural attacks.

Powerful Build does not increase natural weapon damage.

Better to go with something that gets a natural slam attack or two, then stick on Mournland Mutate, Deepspawn and Draconic Tail (andd possibly Dragontouched).

[SonOfJubilex]

Okay: For clarification, our DM is not allowing us to be caster/psionic classes and won't hand out any magic items.

I like the idea of the Feral template, totemist as class, and race of whatever (probably Skarn)

The plan is to Full Attack with the Hilarity of Soul Eater's negative levels.

We also have a Samurai/Soulknife/Iaijutsu Master, a Pouncing Barbarian, a Dragon Shaman/Dragon Samurai (who the DM is giving a "Lay on Hands"-type ability), a Divine Fighter (Tank), and a SA Fighter/Ninja of the Crescent Moon.

The VoP seems appropriate, since we don't get Magic Items. However, I have a good question: Since Incarnum is like Magic Items, doesn't it void VoP?

[WinWin]

Oh, do quote the relevant rules text.

p293 DMG Energy Drain and Negative Levels.

p66 BoVD Soul Eater

p308 MM Energy Drain

I see nothing that conflicts with my description of how the Soul Eater ability functions. In fact, the Soul Eaters ability is superior to normal energy drain, as it can be delivered with a touch. Normally it can be delivered only with an attack. Unless you are arguing that striking something does not count as touching. If that is the case I suggest you provide evidence to support that claim.

[HunterOfJello]

If you can get the dragonblooded subtype you can use the icarnum soulmelds from the Dragon Magic book (or was it Races of the Dragon?).

One of the better ones is a soulmeld that has you grow a dragon tail that you can use as a slam attack. Growing the tail and being able to use it as a weapon is achieved by merely having it as a soulmeld and not by having to bind it to one of your chakras. All the other natural attacks that Totemists develop will come form binding a soulmeld to your chakras, especially the totem chakra. (For more info on Magic of Incarnum, you really should buy the book, it's a great read and makes for interesting characters.)

[kestrel404]

Okay: For clarification, our DM is not allowing us to be caster/psionic classes and won't hand out any magic items.
...
The plan is to Full Attack with the Hilarity of Soul Eater's negative levels.
...
The VoP seems appropriate, since we don't get Magic Items. However, I have a good question: Since Incarnum is like Magic Items, doesn't it void VoP?

Unless the DM is waiving alignment restrictions, Soul Eater and VoP are mutually exclusive. You have to be good aligned to use Vow, and Evil to be a Soul Eater.

Even IF your GM is waiving alignment requirements, being an eater of souls with a ton of feats that requires you to be good is going to be a bit awkward.

[MachineWraith]

The plan is to Full Attack with the Hilarity of Soul Eater's negative levels.

The VoP seems appropriate, since we don't get Magic Items. However, I have a good question: Since Incarnum is like Magic Items, doesn't it void VoP?

As stated previously, the negative levels can't be applied through iterative attacks, but only through a standard action touch.

The soulmeld thing is tricky, though. Personally, I'd rule that since soulmelds have no monetary value they do not violate the vow. They can't be sold, traded, or even given away.

[Trodon]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112349

You can get one bite, two pair of claws or slams, one gore attack, two tails and two pairs of tentacles. Just my first thought though.

[drakir_nosslin]

Incarnum is magic items in the same way as buffs from spells are (ie. not at all), they work fine with VoP

[Greenish]

However, I have a good question: Since Incarnum is like Magic Items, doesn't it void VoP?

In short, no. Soulmelds aren't items, even though they sometimes occupy magic item slots.

They're class features.

[Alleine]

Soulmelds are only likened to items by the fact that they can take up the slot an item uses. Thats as far as it goes, they are not items and do not restrict VoP.


Also, relevant text for energy drain:

Some horrible creatures, especially undead monsters, possess a fearsome supernatural ability to drain levels from those they strike in combat. The creature making an energy drain attack draws a portion of its victim’s life force from her. Most energy drain attacks require a successful melee attack roll—mere physical contact is not enough. Each successful energy drain bestows one or more negative levels (the creature’s description specifies how many). If an attack that includes an energy drain scores a critical hit, it drains twice the given amount.

Found here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...NegativeLevels