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2010-08-07, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
Some of my players have wondered, and I've been thinking about this. Are there rules for characters researching new spells in 4e? I haven't found any in the core rulebooks, but maybe there's a supplement that can help. If anyone has found some, could you refer me to the book or website they were on? I don't need specifics- general guidelines would do fine.
And as a side note, would the rules be applicable to martial classes' powers as well?
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
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2010-08-07, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
well, i dont think there is any, but it would be cool ,or not, its supposed to be like monster making: hard work.
Despite everything, its still me.
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2010-08-07, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
I'm not aware of any rules for researching new spells.
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2010-08-07, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
There aren't any; the standard approach is to take an existing power of the proper class and level, and change its fluff.
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2010-08-07, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
Hmmm. Too bad. Oh well, thanks anyway guys.
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."--Adolf Hitler
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2010-08-07, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
There aren't rules for it because it isn't really something that you should consider yourself entitled to.
But I'm sure most of the designers would more than endorse the idea of player and DM sitting down together and scratching up something cool.
Balance it against other powers available, and I'd personally reccommend sticking to the concept of the class where it is possible, but as long as the power you come up with is something the DM and PC are happy with, it's all good.
You might want to consider consulting page 42 and the guidelines for creating NPC's and Monsters and so on, to give you a little more idea of more-or-less how it works, but inside your own game I wouldn't worry so much about Balance or 'Correct by the Rules'.
Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2010-08-07 at 03:17 PM.
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2010-08-07, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
That makes sense; I was really pushing my PC wizard to let me help him make up his spell, so now I can just show him this and say I have backup.
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."--Adolf Hitler
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2010-08-07, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2010-08-07, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
Well, I asked him. I think he's insane now, but here it is: he wants to be able to summon pillars of stone out of the ground, which then topple and make a sort of burst attack, possibly with a sonic element.
So, what does the forum think of that?
-----edit-----
Cool names would be appreciated.Last edited by iDM; 2010-08-07 at 03:56 PM.
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."--Adolf Hitler
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2010-08-07, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
what does he want it to be? At will? Encounter? Daily?
Seems like an Okay concept, in theory. Single target ranged attack (some damage and knock prone perhaps) with a secondary burst - 1 for lowish damage seems the general shape, but it depends on the level and so on I'd say.
(If it's a central part of the character concept, I'd suggest a piddly little version as at-will with one pillar, and a later daily like that magic-missile-spam daily)Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2010-08-07 at 03:58 PM.
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2010-08-07, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
He's 5th level, so probably 5th level daily or 3rd level encounter. He wants it to deal a lot of damage, so 5th level daily seems more likely. Also, he thinks that having it able to summon more pillars at higher tiers would be interesting-or maybe just having higher-level versions that make more pillars.
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."--Adolf Hitler
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2010-08-07, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
Rite of the Collapsing Temple (wizard daily, level 9, conjuration)
Standard action, close burst 5.
Target: up to 4 non-adjacent unoccopied squares in burst.
Effect: You conjure a pillar in each square. The pillars are blocking terrain and block line of sight. The pillars last until the end of your next turn.
Sustain minor: The effect persists. When you sustain the power, you may make the following attack using one of the pillars as the origin square. If you do, remove that pillar.
Close blast 3, target all creatures in blast.
Attack: intelligence vs. reflex
Hit: 2d10 + intelligence modifier damage, and the target falls prone.
Miss: 1d10 + intelligence modifier damage.
Effect: the area of the blast is difficult terrain until the end of the encounter.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2010-08-07, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."--Adolf Hitler
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2010-08-07, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-07, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."--Adolf Hitler
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2010-08-07, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
Nothing in 4E costs XP, so it should either A) cost gold, or B) just let him take it as one of his appropriate-level daily powers, just as he would with any other daily, retraining if necessary. Probably the latter, actually, since that's kinda what new powers are; learning new techniques or spells.
I do feel that I should question some things about that power, especially "how tall are the pillars," "can the pillars be stood on top of," and "how difficult are the pillars to climb?" While the close burst AoE kinda limits its usefulness for this purpose, it's entirely possible that the party might occasionally want to use it to provide convenient stepping-stones over a chasm or a makeshift ladder or somesuch.
Edit: Oh, and that power should also have the Arcane and Implement keywords, just to be proper and specific about these thingsLast edited by NecroRebel; 2010-08-07 at 05:18 PM.
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2010-08-07, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
my empire of doom begins NOW!
"Summon iPod" or "Summon DM's Best Friend" avatar by me, of meSpoiler"How would that flying cat work? Would you tape buttered toast to its feet buttered side-to-foot? Because cats always land on their feet, and buttered toast always lands buttered side-down."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."--Adolf Hitler
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2010-08-08, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
Thanks
I don't think spell research (or indeed anything else) should cost XP in 4E. I would suggest requiring the character visit a library and spend some time researching, assuming your campaign has downtime.
I'd say the pillars are four squares tall, which is also the height for most wall spells. Climbing should follow the regular rules for climbing and needn't be detailed in the spell description.
And yeah, the spell needs arcane and implement keywords; but I consider those to be rather silly because every wizard attack spell has those keywords.Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2010-08-08 at 06:14 AM.
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2010-08-08, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spell Research in 4th Edition D&D
I must agree, Kurald. That's pretty good stuff.
Didn't WotC have a 'Submit stuff!' section or link somewhere? :)