[3.5] Longswords at 20 paces

[Crasical]

Howdy, all. First post here on the boards.

I don't play 3.5 much, but reading elsewhere inspired me, so I've ended up working on a fairly weird character build, and I've run into a few snags.

The character is based on throwing swords at people, Sort of like a poor man's Gates of Babylon/Unlimited Blade Works/ Whoever this guy is.

So far, I've decided on a few things:

1. The character will probably be Fighter 5/Master Thrower 5
2. The character will probably be Human.
3. The character needs the 'Throw Anything' feat to throw swords at people. The feat requires BAB 2 and a dex of 15 or better and does exactly what it sounds like.

However, a lot is up in the air, mostly considering feats. I have to take Point blank Shot (Would anyway, even if not required), Precise Shot, and Weapon Focus.

Other feats that sounded good:

• Quick Draw: Get this anyway when taking first level of Master Thrower
• Far Shot: Throw swords 20 feet instead of 10
• Rapid Shot: Must throw more swords.
• Manyshot: Throw even more swords
• Two Weapon Fighting: Throw more swords, and need to meet the dex requirement anyway to take 'Throw Anything'.
• Improved Two Weapon Fighting: Another attack. MORE SWORDS
• Brutal Throw: Deeply unsure about this one, since it changes my attacks to use STR instead of DEX. After noting that I needed 15 dex or more to take Throw Anything, I think I abandoned the idea of a str based thrower completely.
• Power Throw: Can Power Attack with throws. Need the real power attack and Brutal throw.

ISSUES AND THINGS I DO NOT LIKE:

The thrown weapon tricks are nice, but only work with the single Weapon Focus I have, which has to be a ranged weapon. I think the best choices are Shortspear and Dagger, but not being able to use most of the best parts of the class except with that weapon really hurts.

I don't have power attack, Cleave, or any other melee enhancers. It's fine if I'm just lobbing swords, but will I still be able to melee?

Should I be dex-focused, or split dex/str?

I'm fairly certain that this is actually going to be LESS effective than someone with a longbow, currently.

Am I missing anything here, and can anyone offer suggestions?

[The Dark Fiddler]

Am I missing anything here, and can anyone offer suggestions?

If you have Tome of Battle, consider Warblade > Bloodstorm Blade instead. Note, I don't actually know Master Thrower, but I've seen BB brought up more than MT so I figure it's better or something.

Bloodstorm Blade gets you cool abilities like the ability to automatically have your weapon be returning and use feats like Power Attack as if you were melee-attacking.

[Force]

If you have access to the Tome of Battle, take the Bloodstorm Blade PrC. It gives you Throw Anything as a free bonus feat, makes your weapons return to you without the Returning enhancement, and lets you adjust such feats as your Weapons Focus from, say, greataxe to longsword 1/day. It has a lot more fun abilities, too. Replacing your fighter levels with, say, Warblade would also give your character a lot more "punch".

EDIT: Bah, swordsage'd!

[Boci]

If you have Tome of Battle, consider Warblade > Bloodstorm Blade instead. Note, I don't actually know Master Thrower, but I've seen BB brought up more than MT so I figure it's better or something.

Bloodstorm Blade gets you cool abilities like the ability to automatically have your weapon be returning and use feats like Power Attack as if you were melee-attacking.

BB is better for 2 level dips, MT is better for 5 levels. MT 5 allows you to target the touch AC, along with other goodies.

[Snake-Aes]

bloodstorm blade is a prestige class that lets you throw weapons and have them bounce back
power throw lets you use STR instead of DEX on your thrown to-hit. Give them a check.

[Crasical]

I sadly don't have the Tome of battle, sadly. Also, how does the Returning ability for Bloodstorm Blade work? Do the swords/daggers/whatever just doink off and your character catches them?

Sounds like it has the potential to be fairly silly looking.

[Snake-Aes]

I sadly don't have the Tome of battle, sadly. Also, how does the Returning ability for Bloodstorm Blade work? Do the swords/daggers/whatever just doink off and your character catches them?

Sounds like it has the potential to be fairly silly looking.

Pretty much. It's the same as the weapon enhancement "Returning"

You also quoted Archer. You can't complain about the silliness =P

[Crasical]

You also quoted Archer. You can't complain about the silliness =P

Can too.

bloodstorm blade is a prestige class that lets you throw weapons and have them bounce back
power throw lets you use STR instead of DEX on your thrown to-hit. Give them a check.

I did already see the Power Throw feat, but the way I had it set up I was going to be dex-focused instead of Str-focused.

BB is better for 2 level dips, MT is better for 5 levels. MT 5 allows you to target the touch AC, along with other goodies.

Does the Bloodstorm Blade have the limitation of Master Thrower? Namely that I have to use specific throwing weapons to get the bonuses of the 'tricks', the one I weapon focused?

EDIT FOR FURTHER QUESTION:
Also, what is a Warblade and why would one be more appropriate/efficient than a straight fighter?

[Boci]

Does the Bloodstorm Blade have the limitation of Master Thrower? Namely that I have to use specific throwing weapons to get the bonuses of the 'tricks', the one I weapon focused?

Nope. Even lets you treat a ranged attack as a melee strike for the purpose of PA and other things.

[Snake-Aes]

EDIT FOR FURTHER QUESTION:
Also, what is a Warblade and why would one be more appropriate/efficient than a straight fighter?

It's one of the base classes from Tome of Battle.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...060802a&page=2
The maneuvers are also freely available there.
Maneuvers are, essentially, Ex abilities that ToB characters can use, similar to spells. For example the boost maneuver "Sudden Leap". It lets you perform a jump check (and move accordingly) as a swift action.

[Critical]

]The character will probably be Fighter 5/Master Thrower 5

*twitch*

Alright, seriously, this is pretty hard to do effectively without Tome of Battle. But if you're still up for that - Throwing + Returning enchantments on your longsword + Sneak Attack + Craven + Greter Invisibility. Invisible swords, duh!

[Crasical]

*twitch*

What? Are level 5 fighters taboo?

[Boci]

What? Are level 5 fighters taboo?

Yep, you gain +1 BAB, d10 hp and 2 skill points. Any other full BAB class is usually better.

[Critical]

What? Are level 5 fighters taboo?

Yes, because you don't get a bonus feat at level 5. You'd be better of if you spent that 5th level on something else, barbarian, for example.

EDIT: Slightly Cleric of Olidammara'd.

[Heliomance]

Never take an odd number of levels in Fighter, unless it's 1. That fifth level is getting you precisely sod all squared in a bucket.

Grr, Swordsaged

[Prime32]

What? Are level 5 fighters taboo?

Fighters gain no class features at odd levels.

[Crasical]

Odd, barely tangential question: I've heard people reference a 'Human Paragon' PRC. What book is that one from?

Edit: Nevermind, found it on the D20SRD.

[Eldan]

You could also consider 2 levels of ranger since you take the feats anyway.

[Kobold-Bard]

Paragon classes are 3 level classes available at d20srd.com and that book of variants (urban arcana?).

Each gives bonuses based on that particular race.

[Greenish]

(urban arcana?).

Unearthed Arcana, not to be confused with Urban Arcana (which is d20 modern, I think?) or Arcana Unearthed.

[Crasical]

I believe I have become distracted. Depending on where this train of thought goes, this character's going to be either awesome in a can or utterly bizarre and horrifying.

EDIT: "Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action."
If I throw a Bastard Sword, is it Full-round or Standard? Does it change depending on if I have Exotic Weapon Proficiency with it?

[Morph Bark]

bloodstorm blade is a prestige class that lets you throw weapons and have them bounce back
power throw lets you use STR instead of DEX on your thrown to-hit. Give them a check.

I thought for thrown weapons you normally already use your Str mod for attack rolls rather than your Dex mod?

[Urpriest]

One thing to remember: normal Returning is a weapon enchantment that will bring the weapon back to you at the end of the round. Thus if you have multiple attacks you need to quick draw multiple magic swords. Bloodstorm Blade lets you get your weapon back after every attack, which means you need fewer magic weapons to get a full full attack. Without that it's much trickier to build a full thrower build.

[Urpriest]

I thought for thrown weapons you normally already use your Str mod for attack rolls rather than your Dex mod?

Nope, that's 4e. You get Str to damage, though.

[Boci]

Nope, that's 4e. You get Str to damage, though.

And BB gives you 1/5 strength to weapons throw with both hands.

[Escheton]

Swords are cool, harpoons are awesome.
'Specially with a build like this. Harpwn-spam.

Consider just stuffing a quiver of ehlonna/mielikki with swords.
Get 2, like the 3rd link guy.

There are also gloves for 10 to 12k in one of the fearunbooks, shining south I think, that gives any weapon you hold distance and returning.
Which is awesome because its a flat cost and does not up the cost of your magic weapons.

[Volos]

Magic enhancements to consider.
The distance ability will double your range again.
Throwing ability will allow it to be thrown without wasting a feat.
Seeking ability will make it turn corners and dodge obstacles to hit the bad guy.

Just have two and you should be fine.

[Morph Bark]

Nope, that's 4e. You get Str to damage, though.

I see... thanks for the correction.

...wait, considering shuriken are thrown weapons, this means a single shuriken could do significant damage if the thrower's Str is high enough, doesn't it? Or would the Str mod not be added in case of the shuriken, considering there are differences in rules for them between them and other thrown weapons already? ('sfar as I know the only difference is in drawing them, but I'd rather make sure.)

[mjames]

If you can find a tome of battle (even a *cough* pdf *cough*), it is definetly worth it. I actually managed to find the last copy in my city. I cherish it like a firstborn child....

It makes melee fun and playable. If you can use the pdf form and get at least two levels of the throwing PRC so that you can have that changing Weapon Focus/Aptitude and returning weapons (not sure which level as I'm away from book), it will greatly improve your Master Thrower.

[Defiant]

I just have to pitch in here...

I love the title