Gestalt arcane/divine

[Paganboy28]

Which is the best option for gestalting arcane/divine casters?

The obvious ones I can see are:

Wizard/Archivist

• lots of spells but have to prepare them all,
• medium armour prof only,
• not that good HD or saves,
• poor combat stats
• only dependant on INT for both sides

I don't like the idea of having to prepare every spell in advance as predicting what is needed is hard.

Sorcerer/Archivist

• some spontenaiety on the arcane side so could use that for blasting/controlling but smaller selection compared to wizard
• still has lots of divine spells but has to prepare

And so forth...

Other combination I am thinking of....

Sorcerer/Cleric

Sorcerer/Favoured Soul

Wizard/Favoured Soul


I am not sure which to do. I want to have blasty/damage power and also have to be party support as well.

Also, I am considering taking Battle Caster feat to allow me to wear armour and still cast arcane spells without failure. The concept of a sorcerous cleric has appeal... a cleric of Boccob for example.

[Touchy]

You have to have the ability to cast in a type of armor before you cast in armor to take battle caster, arcane casting ofcourse.
I suggest you take a look at spontaneous divine casters, which is a class neutral variant for all divine casters.

[Paganboy28]

Would Paladin/Sorcerer be a good gestalt combo?

[Eldariel]

Wizard/Archivist is Int SAD (well, kinda) which makes it excellent. Sorc/Archivist, not so much. And Sorc/Paladin is quite good...for the first two-three levels. After that, Paladin doesn't really give much Sorc cares about; even the Mount is replicable via spells.

[Fouredged Sword]

There are also some nice combos with cleric//dread necromancer. Take walker in the waist for the cleric side as soon as you can to be a litch at mid to high levels.

Paladin//duskblade would also be fun.

[unimaginable]

Sorc//FS would be pretty fun.

[Gavinfoxx]

Heh, my first experience with 3e D&D was when someone handed me a sorcerer//favoured soul... I had nooo idea what I was doing...

[Greenish]

Take walker in the waist for the cleric side as soon as you can to be a litch at mid to high levels.

Ah yeah, Walker of the Waist turns you into Dry Hips as the capstone.

[Tokuhara]

Dread Necro 20//Cleric 10/Walker in the Waste 10 is like Super-Lich. You have both of the Lich's touch attacks, and in Epic, you can become a Super Demilich

[sambo.]

Would Paladin/Sorcerer be a good gestalt combo?

i rekon it would be a great combination myself.

although, personally, i wouldn't be sticking with Paladin past level 2 if i could avoid it.

[BladeofOblivion]

If you don't mind the DM attempting to stab you, try this pointless overkill:

Go With a relatively SAD progression as an Arcane/Divine caster. Decide whether you like arcane or divine more. As soon as you can access it, Go Mystic Theurge: If you prefer arcane, take it on the divine side. If you prefer Divine, Take it on the arcane side. You get progression of your preferred side twice as quickly while not having to sacrifice either. You see, A Wizard 10/Archivist 20/Mystic Theurge 10 casts as a 20th level Wizard and a 30th level Archivist at Level 20(Gestalt). Get ready to dodge plenty of books.

[HunterOfJello]

If you don't mind the DM attempting to stab you, try this pointless overkill:

Go With a relatively SAD progression as an Arcane/Divine caster. Decide whether you like arcane or divine more. As soon as you can access it, Go Mystic Theurge: If you prefer arcane, take it on the divine side. If you prefer Divine, Take it on the arcane side. You get progression of your preferred side twice as quickly while not having to sacrifice either. You see, A Wizard 10/Archivist 20/Mystic Theurge 10 casts as a 20th level Wizard and a 30th level Archivist at Level 20(Gestalt). Get ready to dodge plenty of books.

This would be great, except for the fact that gestalt rules ban all double casting prestige classes. That would include a ban on Mystic Theurge.

~

Wizard//Archivist is the obvious choice and one of the best since you get access to almost every spell in the entire game. Sorcerer//Favored Soul would work well also if you prefer to be a spontaneous caster instead of preparing spells.

I would consider picking a casting class and a non-casting class for your gestalt combo. With limited action economy, you can only cast one spell per round and there will be a limited number of combat rounds per day. If you picked one half of your gestalt combo to be from a non-casting class then you could significantly improve your versatility through more hit points, melee capabilities, skill points, class skills, and more options in combat than just casting another spell at the bad guys.

For instance, a Wizard//Factotum would have d8 instead of d4. Their skill points would be improved from 2 to 6 + int per level. They would have a good Reflex Save and get a medium BAB progression. They could use Simple and Martial weapons along with shields and light armor (which can be enchanted to not have arcane spell failure). They would also get a long list of scaling class abilities that let the character use their Intelligence modifier to boost their fighting, skill, armor, and healing capabilities. At level 8 you would even be able to take extra standard actions per turn allowing you to cast an extra spell with a standard action casting time on your turn. And finally, at level 11 you'd gain the ability to ignore a target's spell resistance for 1 round by spending one of your Factotum's inspiration points.

Wouldn't you love to be able to spend an Inspiration point while doing a Knowledge check to understand a Elder Dragon's weaknesses, then spend another to disable it's spell resistance for a turn allowing you to cast a single perfect spell that will destroy it all in your first turn?

By taking factotum instead of another spellcasting class, you'd improve your character's capabilities at everything within the game becoming both a powerful jack-of-all-trades and an unstoppable spellcaster.

[BladeofOblivion]

This would be great, except for the fact that gestalt rules ban all double casting prestige classes. That would include a ban on Mystic Theurge.

Missed that, Too Bad. That would have been fun.

[HunterOfJello]

Missed that, Too Bad. That would have been fun.

Yeah, if the gestalt rules for prestige classes didn't exist you could have a level 8 character who could cast as a lvl 5 wizard, lvl 5 sorcerer, lvl 7 cleric and lvl 7 druid quite easily. Those sort of characters would be far more powerful than a gestalt character is intended to be.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, if the gestalt rules for prestige classes didn't exist you could have a level 8 character who could cast as a lvl 5 wizard, lvl 5 sorcerer, lvl 7 cleric and lvl 7 druid quite easily. Those sort of characters would be far more powerful than a gestalt character is intended to be.

That's not really a problem. Indeed, that would suck. The issue is that you could have a level 10 Wizard 10/Psion 10 with 8 levels of Factotum. That would be sick. In general, using the other side to "fill in" the opener levels so your dual progression is actually full progression on one side of the build freeing up the other for yet more; that would generate problems.

[Jack_Simth]

Would Paladin/Sorcerer be a good gestalt combo?

Reasonably, yeah. Your Sorcerer spells interfere with your Paladin heavy armor proficiency, though, so you'll want to do something like:

Monk-2/Paladin-2//Sorcerer-X, picking up Ascetic Mage and possibly Ascetic Knight (both feats from Complete Adventurer). Also, on the 'mixed' side, you'll benefit from going into Pious Templar (Complete Divine) quickly. Nothing quite like Charisma-based Spellcasting, Charisma to saves, Charisma to AC, Evasion, and Mettle...well, unless you can add a level of Contemplative and pick up the Pride domain to reroll all 1's on saves....

[Tokuhara]

i rekon it would be a great combination myself.

although, personally, i wouldn't be sticking with Paladin past level 2 if i could avoid it.

Paladin is actually decent into 5th/6th level (Mount is awesome in most campaigns) and with Mystic Fire Knight/Sword of the Arcane Order, you would be able to really ruin someone's day.

here's my build:

Mystic Fire Knight 6/Fist of Raziel 10/Contemplative 4//High One Warrior-Wizard (CoV Web Enhancement) 5/Exalted Arcanist 10/Mage of the Arcane Order 2/Archmage 3

This way, you can swap paladin and wizard spells, you familiar and mount are the same critter, You can smite all day long, and you have nearly full casting (since SotAO and MFK give you wizard and paladin spells)

[Tyndmyr]

This would be great, except for the fact that gestalt rules ban all double casting prestige classes. That would include a ban on Mystic Theurge.

Well, not exactly. Here's what it says.

"Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant."

First, you have the words "should be". I read that as a strong reccomendation, not a "this is a rule".

Second, it's kind of silly as written. Eldritch knight and arcane trickster are not really balance breakers in gestalt. Making an effective gish in gestalt is dead easy.

[Escheton]

Bard//druid?
think about it, it makes sense. In that wait, what? right...huh? wait...wow...cool- kinda way.

[Tyndmyr]

No. Singing animals must be purified with fire.

[gallagher]

Wizard/Archivist is Int SAD (well, kinda) which makes it excellent. Sorc/Archivist, not so much. And Sorc/Paladin is quite good...for the first two-three levels. After that, Paladin doesn't really give much Sorc cares about; even the Mount is replicable via spells.

hmm, i am thinking of around level 2 you could do:
Spellthief1/Sorc9/Unseen Seer 10//Paladin of Freedom 5/Scout 3/Ranger 12

get devoted tracker so you can have your mount and animal companion to count as the same thing, get swift hunter for 4d6 of skirmish, take the mounted combat style, and get master spellthief so you can steal spells with your sneak attack on the other side.

have a couple damage spells, but mostly focus on defensive spells so you dont have to put too much of your ability points into Con, buff yourself to high heaven, and go to town with your high CHA beast

[mangosta71]

Given that you want to be a blaster first and supporter second, sorcerer//favored soul may be your best SAD option. Focus on attack spells on the sorcerer side and buff spells on FS, and they're all spontaneous. No "oh crap, I need to meditate for 8 hours before I can cure my poison!" situations. Another variant would be psion (kineticist)//archivist, if you're willing to sub psionic for the arcane caster.

[Kylarra]

If you don't mind the DM attempting to stab you, try this pointless overkill:

Go With a relatively SAD progression as an Arcane/Divine caster. Decide whether you like arcane or divine more. As soon as you can access it, Go Mystic Theurge: If you prefer arcane, take it on the divine side. If you prefer Divine, Take it on the arcane side. You get progression of your preferred side twice as quickly while not having to sacrifice either. You see, A Wizard 10/Archivist 20/Mystic Theurge 10 casts as a 20th level Wizard and a 30th level Archivist at Level 20(Gestalt). Get ready to dodge plenty of books.

Even allowing for dual casters, common interpretation is that increasing your spellcasting by 1 level is equivalently the same thing as just taking the level in the class, so it wouldn't double stack.

[mangosta71]

Even allowing for dual casters, common interpretation is that increasing your spellcasting by 1 level is equivalently the same thing as just taking the level in the class, so it wouldn't double stack.

Well, you would gain the level-specific benefits (like the extra feats from wizard, turning attempts from cleric) that you don't get in the dual-progression PrCs, but that's it.

[Tyndmyr]

Even allowing for dual casters, common interpretation is that increasing your spellcasting by 1 level is equivalently the same thing as just taking the level in the class, so it wouldn't double stack.

Agreed.

The extra ten levels would be more profitably used by grabbing an entirely different class.

[subject42]

Aren't Shugenja (Complete... Divine, maybe?) entirely Charisma based? If they are, they might be a nice pairing for Sorcerer.

[Kylarra]

Well, you would gain the level-specific benefits (like the extra feats from wizard, turning attempts from cleric) that you don't get in the dual-progression PrCs, but that's it.

Right, I was addressing the specific interpretation of increasing spellcasting at double the rate for a single level.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, not exactly. Here's what it says.

"Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant."

First, you have the words "should be". I read that as a strong reccomendation, not a "this is a rule".

Second, it's kind of silly as written. Eldritch knight and arcane trickster are not really balance breakers in gestalt. Making an effective gish in gestalt is dead easy.

Ah... I think it's more intended to address the problem of the double PrC's being used to get a third fraction in there with no noticeable costs. Builds like....
Rogue-5/Factotum-10//Wizard-5/Arcane Trickster-10

[Tokuhara]

Aren't Shugenja (Complete... Divine, maybe?) entirely Charisma based? If they are, they might be a nice pairing for Sorcerer.

hmmm....

Race: Fire Elf (UA)
Shugenja 5/Seeker of the Misty Isles 6/Sovereign Speaker 3/Contemplative 6//Sorcerer 5/Sandshaper 1/Dragon Prophet 10/Blood Magus 4

[AdamSmasher]

Sorcerer/Spirit shaman.

And take a few levels of Prestige Paladin on the divine side for the crazy CHA to saves.