Monstrous Centipedes (3.5)

[unimaginable]

Is it just me or does it seem like a Large or Huge sized centipede ought to be a much greater threat than in the rules as written?

Has anybody actually used them? Got any ideas how to make them better?

[hamishspence]

Maybe take the Megapede (MM2) and downscale it- reduce its stats, size and the amount of punch its poison has, but it's still much meaner than ordinary Monstrous Centipedes.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Honestly, the CR system in general is borked. From that damned crab to epic level monsters who can't even fly.

To actually answer your question, those centipedes could pose a real threat to parties of those levels. My gut reaction is to double the CR for the large and huge bugs, so they'd be 2 and 4, respectively. However, they are mindless creatures, which is probably why they were listed at such low CRs.

[hamishspence]

Oh right- I thought the OP wanted Large/Huge Centipedes to be made into a greater threat, rather than that they were saying the Centipeded are under-CRed.

[Harperfan7]

The main issue with this is grapple, right?

Would a mindless creature like a centipede know to grapple?

I would rule not, except with anti-grappling.

[hamishspence]

Japanese bees grapple giant hornets- and buzz violently to generate enough heat (with a large group grappling) to kill the hornet.

I'm not sure therefore if "grappling" can be ruled out as a basic method for mindless creatures.

[unimaginable]

Well, basically, I want a monstrous centipede that'll be a reasonable threat for a lvl 5 party, without going Gargantuan.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I'm not sure therefore if "grappling" can be ruled out as a basic method for mindless creatures.

Yeah, grappling is only complex as a game mechanic. What it represents is just grabbing and holding. Doesn’t require anu more intelligence than any of the other attacks mindless creatures can make.

Of course, you also have to remember that mindlessness doesn’t mean the creature is incapable of complex behavior. Just that any complex behavior is the product of instinct rather than thinking. For instance, ant society is pretty complex, but even giant ants are still mindless.

[Keld Denar]

That, and if you've ever seen a hunting centipede (go go animal planet!), they grab onto things with their jaws and front legs and then wrap themselves around and essentially rake their foes with their lower legs. Between that and the venom, they are pretty brutal killers. A large or huge centipede that grappled a PC would do something similar, curling itself around the PC in a similar fashion and biting it mercilessly while injecting poison and gripping it with their lower legs.

[Starbuck_II]

That, and if you've ever seen a hunting centipede (go go animal planet!), they grab onto things with their jaws and front legs and then wrap themselves around and essentially rake their foes with their lower legs. Between that and the venom, they are pretty brutal killers. A large or huge centipede that grappled a PC would do something similar, curling itself around the PC in a similar fashion and biting it mercilessly while injecting poison and gripping it with their lower legs.

You'd think a creature that grapples normally would have improved grab so no provoking.

[unimaginable]

Occured to me that the centipede fight takes place on the Beastlands, which means it gets the Celestial template, which means DR 5/magic, a handful of resistances, low (but existent) SR and an Int of 3, which means it can take feats. What three feats?

[Starbuck_II]

Occured to me that the centipede fight takes place on the Beastlands, which means it gets the Celestial template, which means DR 5/magic, a handful of resistances, low (but existent) SR and an Int of 3, which means it can take feats. What three feats?

Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grapple
Scorpian's Grasp

[unimaginable]

What does Scorpian's Grasp do?

[Darrin]

Is it just me or does it seem like a Large or Huge sized centipede ought to be a much greater threat than in the rules as written?

Has anybody actually used them? Got any ideas how to make them better?

Monstrous centipedes can be interesting because on the Summon Monster lists, they tend to be one size larger than anything else you can summon. So yes, this makes them better grapplers, and yes, they can understand basic commands because almost all summoned creatures have a celestial or fiendish template, which increases their Int to 3. This means they understand Common as a default language, and can follow simple commands. With such large footprints, it's also easy to summon a bunch of them and block off or deny sections of a battlefield.

The other interesting thing you can do with monstrous centipedes is with the Conjure Ice Beast line of spells. One of the special abilities you can give ice beasts is an Engulf (Su) ability, where it's also quite handy to be larger than your opponent.

[The Glyphstone]

What does Scorpian's Grasp do?

Gives Improved Grab.

[awa]

personally i like to take the vermin and reduce their size but keep all their stats and hd the same. (the reasoning being i personally think a bug the size of a man should be extremely dangerous which lets face it a medium centipede is not)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

personally i like to take the vermin and reduce their size but keep all their stats and hd the same. (the reasoning being i personally think a bug the size of a man should be extremely dangerous which lets face it a medium centipede is not)

To be fair, it could go toe-to-toe with a house cat, which is more than most commoner's can say.

[Harperfan7]

I wasn't saying a centipede is too stupid to grapple, I was saying they are too stupid to know to grapple (not know how to grapple).

[The Glyphstone]

That's the same thing though - being able to grapple is merely a factor of strength/having limbs or jaws. As mentioned above, 'grappling' is part of a real-world centipede's basic hunting technique, so it'd be perfectly logical for the thing, though mindless, to try grappling. It doesn't need to be smart enough to grapple, because it grapples everything anyways, that's instinct.

[pres_man]

That's the same thing though - being able to grapple is merely a factor of strength/having limbs or jaws. As mentioned above, 'grappling' is part of a real-world centipede's basic hunting technique, so it'd be perfectly logical for the thing, though mindless, to try grappling. It doesn't need to be smart enough to grapple, because it grapples everything anyways, that's instinct.

But does it grapple everything? Or does it try to bite, then fails and on the next round tries to grapple (which usually involves hitting a much lower touch AC)?

[Keld Denar]

Video of a centipede mercing a tarantula...

AKA: Damn nature, you is SCARY!