Lockdown Feats

[true_shinken]

I'm trying to find all the feats that might be useful in a lockdown build. By now, I have:
Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise (requirement), Improved Trip, Knockdown (SRD)
Evasive Reflexes (ToB), Deft Opportunist (Complete Adventurer, I think), Sidestep, Double-Hit (Tome of Battle), Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane), Supernatural Reflexes (or was it witch hunter? it's from Tome of Magic, allowing AoO on supernatural abilities), Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades (ToB).
Stand Still (XPH, can't believe I forgot that), Defensive Sweep (PHB2; requires BAB+15)

Did I miss any?
EDIT: Also, is there any specially good equipment for a lockdown build?

[Zeta Kai]

Please define lockdown for us, so that we know what you mean when you use it. I consider lockdown to mean "negating my opponents' opportunities to act", but you may have a differing definition, resulting in confusion.

[Andion Isurand]

Stand Still (ExpPsiHB)

[Keld Denar]

Defensive Sweep for the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" theme.

[Greenish]

If you mean AoO related stuff, there's Earth Devotion and that Knight ability whose name I can't recall just now, which both make difficult terrain and thus prevent tumbling, running and charging.

[true_shinken]

Defensive Sweep for the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" theme.

Is that a feat? I thought it was a fighter alternate class feature.

Please define lockdown for us, so that we know what you mean when you use it. I consider lockdown to mean "negating my opponents' opportunities to act", but you may have a differing definition, resulting in confusion.

I think that is a good definition, yes.

Stand Still (ExpPsiHB)

Can't believe I forgot. Thanks.

[FelixG]

Is that a feat? I thought it was a fighter alternate class feature.

It is indeed a feat, required BAB 15+ though

[true_shinken]

It is indeed a feat, required BAB 15+ though

Hmm, nice to know, thanks.

If you mean AoO related stuff, there's Earth Devotion and that Knight ability whose name I can't recall just now, which both make difficult terrain and thus prevent tumbling, running and charging.

Hm, Earth Devotion. Sounds like a good find. Is it only 1/day?

[Greenish]

I think that is a good definition, yes.

I've found that often a good way of negating the opponent's opportunities to act is to kill them. Granted, death doesn't actually impair you much, but most DMs tend to houserule it.

Also, Martial Study. White Raven, for example has great maneuvers that prevent your opponent from using AoO (or any actions with higher level maneuvers).

[Keld Denar]

Devotions are 1/day, unless you have a source of Turn Undead (cleric/paladin/KnightoftheRaven/etc). Then they are 1 + X/Y times per day, where X is the number of TU attempts you have and Y is the number of TU attempts the feat requires. Different devotions require different amounts. Law, for example, is 3, while Travel is 2 and Strength is 1.

Grappling is also a form of lockdown. Its not hard to make an optimized grappler that can pin an equal CRed dragon, and if you go a little crazy with Multigrab and Improved Multigrab, you can even hold multiple foes at once.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hmmm, Feats useful for lockdown characters...

Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Two Weapon Fighting
Weapon Finesse
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Chain (this is different than Spiked Chain, this one is 1d6, and can have reach OR be a 1d6/1d6 for use with two weapon fighting. It's in Oriental Adventures, and it was *not* changed in the Dragon Magazine update to Oriental Adventures which made OA 3.5 compatible)
Improved Trip
Curling Wave Strike
Cunning Sidestep
Combat Stability
Double Hit
Overhead Thrust
Sidestep
Evasive Reflexes
Stand Still
Knock-down
Robilar's Gambit
Karmic Strike
Hold the Line
Mage Slayer
Jotunbrud
Deft Opportunist
Defensive Sweep
Improved Combat Reflexes
Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades

[true_shinken]

I've found that often a good way of negating the opponent's opportunities to act is to kill them. Granted, death doesn't actually impair you much, but most DMs tend to houserule it.

I take it this was supposed to be a joke...

Also, Martial Study. White Raven, for example has great maneuvers that prevent your opponent from using AoO (or any actions with higher level maneuvers).

Hm, never heard of those specific maneuvers, really. I'll check'em, thanks.

[Eldariel]

I take it this was supposed to be a joke...

I think he was making a case for using Chargers (or generic Melee Damage) as "control" of sorts.

Hm, never heard of those specific maneuvers, really. I'll check'em, thanks.

Douse the Flames and Covering Strike both stop enemy from taking AoOs; one is a Strike, other is a Boost. Strike is 1st level, Boost is 4th.


Anyways, Person Man's Melee Compilation contains fairly decent lists of the Lockdown tools (Knockback Bull Rush-based, Trip-based (with or without Knock-Down), simple Stand Still-base and Fear-base).

[true_shinken]

I think he was making a case for using Chargers (or generic Melee Damage) as "control" of sorts.

Oh. That sounds like those pesky 'play X instead' advices... I don't think Greenish would do that, he's a nice guy.

[Eldariel]

Oh. That sounds like those pesky 'play X instead' advices... I don't think Greenish would do that, he's a nice guy.

It's probably a jest, at least to a degree (though also sorta true). Alternatively, it could be a case of semantics; after all, Big Smash Hulk qualifies as "melee lockdown" for certain definitions of lockdown. But mayhap I ought to wait for him to clarify.

EDIT: And yeah, you should probably add the Improved Bull Rush > Rampaging Bull Rush chain for lockdown as it allows knocking people down too.

[Greenish]

Hm, never heard of those specific maneuvers, really. I'll check'em, thanks.

Offhand, there's Douse the Flames (prevents target hit from using AoO for a turn), White Raven Strike (makes target hit flat-footed, which prevents using AoO or Immediate Actions, such as counters) and White Raven Hammer (which flat out stuns the target).

I don't think Greenish would do that, he's a nice guy.

Who me?

Meh, it was just a lame excuse to make a joke on how, by RAW, death doesn't prevent you from taking actions.

[Edit]: Though, Shock Trooper allows you to trip up people by bull rushing them to each others, and a case could easily be made that Bull Rush can be used to deny opponents actions, or at least make them less effective.

[true_shinken]

Offhand, there's Douse the Flames (prevents target hit from using AoO for a turn), White Raven Strike (makes target hit flat-footed, which prevents using AoO or Immediate Actions, such as counters) and White Raven Hammer (which flat out stuns the target).

Stunning! There is a stunning weapon enhancement, right? I think I could get him that...

[Greenish]

Stunning! There is a stunning weapon enhancement, right? I think I could get him that...

There are two, I seem to recall. Sudden Stunning and Stunning Surge, or something like that. The other one's decent, the other great for a charismatic character.

[Pechvarry]

Supernatural Reflexes (or was it witch hunter? it's from Tome of Magic, allowing AoO on supernatural abilities)

I believe there's a Dragon magazine with something along these lines that probably lacks additional feat reqs, but the Tome of Magic version is Supernatural Opportunist and requires Supernatural Crusader (+1 attack/damage vs creatures with Su abilities).

Also (because Person_Man's monk thread is on the mind), Improved Unarmed Strike >> Acheron Flurry (Planar Handbook). It occurs to me that a Swiftblade or a Factotum whose dipped Monk or Unarmed Swordsage could use their action economy advantage to shut down an enemy and continue on to another foe.

Of course, there's the pesky requirement that you must've actually dealt damage to them with a melee attack... Snap kick!

[WinWin]

EWP or MP in a reach weapon is neccesary. Otherwise the opposition can take a 5 ft step out of your area of control in a lot of cases. Gear and powers/spells to increase size help.

Greatreach breacers. Bracers of opportunity. Sidestep boots can be handy getting close to a large creature. Alchemical Weapon capsule retainers from Complete Adventurer can be handy. Depends on whether you consider poison use control.

Elusive Target has some amusing uses, even if the prerequisites suck. Three Mountains is decent, not much is immune to being Nauseated. With an Aptitude weapon on a Knockdown build it can be used to great effect. The prerequisites for Three Thunders set you up for Shock Trooper, obviously synergising with Dungeoncrasher.

Most of the good stuff has already been covered, I am sure there are a few tricks for specific builds though.

[Volthawk]

Also, Deformity (tall) (Heroes of Horror; requires Willing Deformity) and Inhuman Reach (Lords of Madness; requires Aberrant Blood) both increase reach. However, Deformity gives you -1 AC and -2 Hide, while Inhuman Reach gives a -1 penalty to attacks, so it is a little bit of a trade-off.

[panaikhan]

I remember a Lasher (PrC) lockdown build based on whip-daggers, where the character got an AoO against anyone in their (quite impressive) 15' reach, without racial size/reach cheeze.

[Coidzor]

I remember a Lasher (PrC) lockdown build based on whip-daggers, where the character got an AoO against anyone in their (quite impressive) 15' reach, without racial size/reach cheeze.

Hmm, wonder how he did that legally.

[true_shinken]

Hmm, wonder how he did that legally.

Exotic Weapon Master's exotic reach, most likely.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hey there, do you need help finding the sources of most of those feats in my list? I THINK most of them are findable via realmshelp, except the Tome of Battle ones... those are good for lockdown characters... some of them are from dragon magazine, lots of them have prerequisites. If you want to play a lockdown fighter, basically just give the list to the DM, talk about what they do, talk about what is the minimum needed to actually get the character able to do the role, point out how a ton of these feats have very silly and odd prerequisites, and ask permission to be able to do things to get more of these feats as options in the fighter build, and also talk to the DM and ask for the option to reflavor some of the prerequisites for some of these feats to instead have, as prerequisite, OTHER feats on that list. Ask for a bit of help in focusing the numbers to follow the character concept.

[Lans]

Boomerang Daze is a very good lockdown feat, but it doesn't fit in the rest of the feats unless your using an aptitude weapon.

[Thurbane]

I believe there's a Dragon magazine with something along these lines that probably lacks additional feat reqs, but the Tome of Magic version is Supernatural Opportunist and requires Supernatural Crusader (+1 attack/damage vs creatures with Su abilities).

There's one in FC II that does the same thing as Supernatural Opprotunist - Supernatural Instincts, and the only req is Combat reflexes, which is already part of this build.

[Pechvarry]

There's one in FC II that does the same thing as Supernatural Opprotunist - Supernatural Instincts, and the only req is Combat reflexes, which is already part of this build.

FC2 delivers yet again. That's awesome.

[Hirax]

Knockback+rampaging bull rush feats from Races of Stone

[true_shinken]

There's one in FC II that does the same thing as Supernatural Opprotunist - Supernatural Instincts, and the only req is Combat reflexes, which is already part of this build.

So THAT is where it's from. Thanks.