Divine Gish?

[Cieyrin]

I'm trying to devise a Divine Gish and, currently, I have Cleric/Ordained Champion/Knight of the Raven with a splash of Warpriest to get Glory domain.

What I'm looking for is the standard gish goal of BAB +16 with CL 17 for my 9s without too much fuss. Any suggestions/builds would be lovely. 28 point buy, no flaws/traits.

For what it's worth, I'm slightly refluffing Ordained Champion to work with the 3rd son of Stern Alia, Stratis, as Stratis kicked a lot more ass than Heironeous and Hextor combined, if the Chainmail fluff is to be believed.

Thanks for any and all input!

[Greenish]

Cleric4/Ordained Champion3/PrC Paladin3/Knight of the Raven 10.

19 BAB, casts as 17th level cleric.

Of course, the most expedient way might be DMM persisted Divine Power on a rather caster-y framework, but yeah, I've a soft spot for more martial clerics too.

[Crow]

Cleric18/Paladin2

[Thefurmonger]

Yeah... As far as i have always known the standard divine gish is Cleric X/whogivesacrapmayaswellbecleric 19 then just DMM some DP

[Tokuhara]

Here's mine (tried and true!)

Race: Half-Vistani (Ravenloft)
Class: Paladin 5/Shadowstriker 2/Divine Crusader 3/Knight of the Raven 10

You are LG, a paladin of Heironious and Pelor, and are a master of facing Evil

[arguskos]

[nitpick]
Gish is a term that specifically refers to an arcane user who can fight with a weapon competently. It originates from the githyanki warrior-caste of the gish, which were 5th level Fighters/5th level Magic-Users, or some such thing, back in AD&D.

Use terminology properly.
[/nitpick]

Now, for an alternative suggestion: Mystic Ranger, mayhaps? Take it to like level 5 or 6, then PrC out into advancement classes that give fun abilities (Knight of the Raven is good times). You don't get 9s though, so if that's a deal breaker, well, it's a deal breaker.

[unimaginable]

Divine Gish so does not require a thread for brainstorming.

Straight cleric or favoured soul. Divine Power + Righteous Might + Visage of the Deity = game over.

[Kris Strife]

Druid: Get Wildshape, and the feat that lets you cast in Wild Shape.

[Greenish]

[nitpick]
Gish is a term that specifically refers to an arcane user who can fight with a weapon competently. It originates from the githyanki warrior-caste of the gish, which were 5th level Fighters/5th level Magic-Users, or some such thing, back in AD&D.

Use terminology properly.
[/nitpick]

It is often used rather liberally to mean any sort of magic knight.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

[nitpick]
Gish is a term that specifically refers to an arcane user who can fight with a weapon competently. It originates from the githyanki warrior-caste of the gish, which were 5th level Fighters/5th level Magic-Users, or some such thing, back in AD&D.

Use terminology properly.
[/nitpick]

To be fair, "gish" has grown linguistically past its origins. While the default will general mean "has 16+ BAB, 9th level spells by 20th level," there are skill gishes with Unseen Seer, Arcane Trickster, and others, as well as the fore-mentioned "divine gish."

Now, for an alternative suggestion: Mystic Ranger, mayhaps? Take it to like level 5 or 6, then PrC out into advancement classes that give fun abilities (Knight of the Raven is good times). You don't get 9s though, so if that's a deal breaker, well, it's a deal breaker.

Mystic Ranger's not bad, but it's still light on the spells. Adding Sword of the Arcane Order would help some, but that's probably not what the OP wants.

I'd say shoot for Ruby Night VWindcator from ToB. Cloistered Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 5 (or something else with full casting that gives domains or turning attempts/day). Use the usual DMM: Persist to get your 20 BAB instead of the build's otherwise 15.


In the event that Persist doesn't fly for one reason or another...

Monk 1/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 10 (assuming text trumps table and you do get full-casting)/Ordained Champion 5. It needs to use fractional BAB to get you there, but you end up with 17th level casting and 19 BAB pre-epic, otherwise you'll need two more levels of cleric.

EDIT: Swordsage'd on the nitpick because I spent some ten minutes checking my sources. Curse you, Greenish!

[fryplink]

Druid, use wild shape and natural spell, then play them exactly as intended?

[EvilJoe15]

I find the lack of Ur-priest disturbing.

Start with Crusader, or Warblade(If you can spare the feats), and you'll end up with something like this:
Crusader 5 / Ur-priest 2 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 / Crusader +3

Or, if you want something nasty:

Erudite 4 / Crusader 1 / Ur-priest 2 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 7 / Psychic Theurge 10

[Wings of Peace]

Possibly Bone Knight for survivability?

[Gnaritas]

[nitpick]
Gish is a term that specifically refers to an arcane user who can fight with a weapon competently. It originates from the githyanki warrior-caste of the gish, which were 5th level Fighters/5th level Magic-Users, or some such thing, back in AD&D.

Use terminology properly.
[/nitpick]

This is nonsense.

Yes the "gish" derives from that word, but the exact meaning of a "gish" is not officially noted anywhere. You say yourself it's origin was a Fighter/Magic-user (i thought it was level 4 of each).
Is a cleric not a magic user? Sure the Githyanki Gish was an Arcane Caster, but in that same logic would a Warblade/Wizard not be a gish since the Warblade is not a Fighter?

What i am trying to say is there is no wrong usage of this term, it just might differ from your definition.

On top of that he calls it a Divine Gish, which even in your terminology would fit perfectly, not?

[the humanity]

this is too easy normally, try making it with cloistered cleric, it'll turn out a little more unique anyways ;)

otherwise, straight cleric fits perfectly...

[Thrice Dead Cat]

this is too easy normally, try making it with cloistered cleric, it'll turn out a little more unique anyways ;)

otherwise, straight cleric fits perfectly...

Making it with Cloistered Cleric just means grabbing a domains with Extend Spell and/or Extra Turning before grabbing Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. After that, you proceed to take prestige classes like Divine Oracle 2 and other fun full-casting stuffs that give you tricks.

[Amphetryon]

[nitpick]
Gish is a term that specifically refers to an arcane user who can fight with a weapon competently. It originates from the githyanki warrior-caste of the gish, which were 5th level Fighters/5th level Magic-Users, or some such thing, back in AD&D.

Use terminology properly.
[/nitpick]

Yeah, stop referring to members of races besides githyanki as "gish," darn it.

Lesser Aasimar Cloistered Cleric 3/Crusader 2/RKV 7/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 2/Knight of the Raven 5, for my actually helpful contribution to the thread.

Alternatively, use KotR to fuel Turn Undead and take Spirit Shaman 4 or Druid 3 as your base divine class, for access to their spell list, which is slightly more skewed toward buffing and summoning - and slightly less expected for a divine gish - than a Cleric's.

[Greenish]

Lesser Aasimar Cloistered Cleric 3/Crusader 2/RKV 7/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 2/Knight of the Raven 5, for my actually helpful contribution to the thread.

OP wanted 9th level spells.

[Keld Denar]

Is a cleric not a magic user?

Actually, in older versions of D&D, from wence the term gish spawned, it wasn't. Magic-user was the class term for arcanists before they redubbed it "wizard". Just because you could use magic doesn't mean you were a magic-user, for as much sense as that makes!

[Kris Strife]

Druid: Get Wildshape, and the feat that lets you cast in Wild Shape.

Druid, use wild shape and natural spell, then play them exactly as intended?

No one else caught this?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I caught it, but that's boring. There's little if anything to toy with it just is.

[Cieyrin]

Man, this certainly bloomed after I gave up on seeing if people would post to it or not. I have build suggestions as well as fighting over the proper usage of the term 'gish,' which I'll admit is properly a warrior/mage. Hence why I say DIVINE Gish, but I digress.

While I appreciate the Persist Divine Power suggestions but, since I'm bothering to go for full BAB casting classes, I'm not aiming at CoDzillaing it up, since Divine Metamagic shenanigans probably wouldn't be appreciated the game I'm bringing this to, at least as they relate to Persist.

I also don't won't to lock myself into an alignment with a flavor of Pally, as I'd rather not have to deal with Pally code if I can avoid it, so nix variant Pallies and Prestige Pally.

I also wouldn't bank on Dragon material, such as Mystic Ranger, despite how awesome they are and how I would like to play one. Maybe in the future but now isn't the time.

RKV Clericsader is interesting, though I'll see if I can get some ToB into this game or not.

Not sure about Sacred Fist and ix-nay Ur Priest. I may worship a dead god but that doesn't mean Ur Priest should be my only solution. Don't really like Ur Priest flavor, anyways.

So, is Warpriest trash, then, even if I'm just getting in 1 level for full BAB and Glory? I kinda like getting at Pally specials like Bless Weapon and Holy Weapon without being a Pally, y'know?

Further thoughts, neh?

[Navigator]

Definitely consider Fist of Raziel from Book of Exalted Deeds. Even considering Ruby Knight Vindicator, its probably the best divine gish class available. For filler levels, take a look at Church Inquisitor for some handy abilities.

[dextercorvia]

So, is Warpriest trash, then, even if I'm just getting in 1 level for full BAB and Glory?

Actually just Glory if you only dip one level. Cleric19/Warpriest1 has the same BAB as Cleric20. Still, that's a good domain to grab.

Cleric16/Warpriest4 gets you casting as an 18th level cleric and BAB +16 at level 20. You can do better, but that isn't awful.

If DMM persist is off the table, what about DMM quicken? It's not quite as awesome for a Gish character, but it does allow you to buff and attack in the same round.

I also recommend taking the Travel domain, and the Travel devotion FEAT. I just think the spells in that domain are too good to pass up if you are playing a cleric, so I wouldn't trade it out.

[Rixx]

Holy Vindicator from the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide is way cool.

[Tokuhara]

Definitely consider Fist of Raziel from Book of Exalted Deeds. Even considering Ruby Knight Vindicator, its probably the best divine gish class available. For filler levels, take a look at Church Inquisitor for some handy abilities.

I agree. Here's using FoR and CI

Mystic Fire Knight 6/FoR 10/CI 4

take Sword of the Arcane Order, and other nasty Paladin classic feats. Heck, take either Serenity or Dynamic Priest to make you less MAD

[Cieyrin]

Actually just Glory if you only dip one level. Cleric19/Warpriest1 has the same BAB as Cleric20. Still, that's a good domain to grab.

Good to see I'm not crazy for wanting Glory.

If DMM persist is off the table, what about DMM quicken? It's not quite as awesome for a Gish character, but it does allow you to buff and attack in the same round.

That may be a feasible option, yes.

I also recommend taking the Travel domain, and the Travel devotion FEAT. I just think the spells in that domain are too good to pass up if you are playing a cleric, so I wouldn't trade it out.

Travel doesn't quite fit with Stratis, really. His portfolio isn't about traveling to do battle, it's about what you do in battle, really. I figure his domains being Competition, Courage, Glory, Strength and War, personally.

[TooManyBadgers]

Typically I'd just go with Greenish's first suggestion, but with a Church Inquisitor level subbed in at ECL4.

But for something slightly different:
Bhuka Clositered Cleric 1/Fire Shugenja 3/Ordained Champion 3/Hexer 10/Abjurant Champion 3 [Divine Adaption]

9th level spells, 18 BA, decent Self-buffs from the Air/Earth Shugenja lists and channel-able blasting spells from the Shugenja Fire list. 5 additional Sorcerer/Wizard spells of your choice.

Charisma-based casting and 'Hex' abilities, Turning for Divine feats, Abjurant Champion's goodies and four domains to play with..