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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    cool Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Hi: This is my first post to these forums.

    A friend invited me to join a new group. Both their DMs left the community in the last year and it looks like I'm the next in line, which as far as I'm concerned is GREAT.

    Like all DMs, I do a bit of homebrewing to spice up the game, balance it, and to make it make more sense for me and my players. So, I'm not opposed to anyone else homebrewing either, and I've inherited some legacy homebrew from this crew. The first bit is the feat (below) that one of the more seasoned players' sorcerer received. The campaign started in the World of Whitethorn, which apparently was dominated by halflings at the start. The characters are 8-10 level right now.

    Anyway, I'd like to know what you think about this as a feat. I'm inclined to accept it, as I don't think it's broken, but I'd appreciate your critical commentary before I tell the player whether I am or am not going to let the feat persist. (For the moment, please assume that any decision I make will likely not lead to bad feelings by this or any other player. I'm really looking for your thoughts on the feat rather than the meta-aspects of role-playing.)

    So here's the feat. I'd like to know what you think.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep to be rested and you add the spells enumerated below, which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling wizard, sorcerer, cleric or druid with the saint template, and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).

    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Silence
    3. Know Vulnerabilities (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis
    6. Greater Anticipate Teleportation (with twice the range) (Spell)
    7. Starmantle (Exalted Deeds)
    8. Moment of Presence
    9. End to Strife (Exalted Deeds)
    Last edited by backpackjack; 2010-09-13 at 11:05 AM.

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    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by backpackjack View Post
    Hi: This is my first post to these forums.

    A friend invited me to join a new group. Both their DMs left the community in the last year and it looks like I'm the next in line, which as far as I'm concerned is GREAT.

    Like all DMs, I do a bit of homebrewing to spice up the game, balance it, and to make it make more sense for me and my players. So, I'm not opposed to anyone else homebrewing either, and I've inherited some legacy homebrew from this crew. The first bit is the feat (below) that one of the more seasoned players' sorcerer received. The campaign started in the World of Whitethorn, which apparently was dominated by halflings at the start. The characters are 8-10 level right now.

    Anyway, I'd like to know what you think about this as a feat. I'm inclined to accept it, as I don't think it's broken, but I'd appreciate your critical commentary before I tell the player whether I am or am not going to let the feat persist. (For the moment, please assume that any decision I make will likely not lead to bad feelings by this or any other player. I'm really looking for your thoughts on the feat rather than the meta-aspects of role-playing.)

    So here's the feat. I'd like to know what you think.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep and you add the spells enumerated below, which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling, full-caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).

    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Silence
    3. Know Vulnerabilities (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis
    6. Greater Anticipate Teleportation (with twice the range) (Spell)
    7. Starmantle (Exalted Deeds)
    8. Moment of Presence
    9. End to Strife (Exalted Deeds)
    Two big things:
    1.) Define full caster. Do you need to have only one of cleric, druid, or wizard? Or will a single level of bard do it?
    2.) What does the feat do?

    EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the forums.
    Last edited by GreatWyrmGold; 2010-08-09 at 07:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    cool Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    This was how the feat was presented to me in writing. I do think the questions you've asked are important. Let me try to answer them as I would were I asked these questions on the fly by players.

    1) What is meant by full caster? I think I would say that in this instance "full caster" means that at the time a character is granted the feat that it has to have at least one level of a class that is capable of 0-9th level spells of one kind or another. Thus, a bard 10 would not qualify, but a sorcerer 1, bard 9 would. (Mind you, this may or may not make much sense, as I don't see why any caster could not qualify. And, barring other concerns, I'd not be concerned about replacing "full caster" with "spell caster".

    2) What does the feat do? In my reading, the feat does the following
    a. The character no longer needs to sleep.
    b. The character adds the ten listed spells to her spell books, to her spells known, and/or to spells she can prepare.
    c. The character can cast the listed spells, despite what their spell descriptions say, as an immediate action.
    d. One of the spells, Greater Anticipate Teleport, is given twice the area.

    I've looked at all the spells, none of them seem too powerful, even if cast as an immediate action, but I might be overlooking something. They're all good spells that would enable virtually any character to add some spells that are not already on his list. I can see why a halfling, lawful good goddess would enable the spells on this list. That is, I can see where halflings would specifically benefit. The spells mostly are defensive spells, spells that give a small people some fighting advantage, or that enable, in the case of Telekinesis, a small people to reach a high object. There's the whimsy associated with halflings in Prestidigitation and the peaceful orientation in End to Strife.

    Generally speaking, I'm inclined to let the player continue to use the feat, but I just wonder if I'm overlooking something.
    Last edited by backpackjack; 2010-08-09 at 08:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    I think I might go a little lighter--and given the level of your party, this shouldn't affect much in terms of prior play. Some of those upper level spells made less sense to me so I doubled up on the 1-4th level spells and chose defensive spells, which seems consistent with Yondalla's perspective toward halflings. (The only reason I left telekinesis in was because that comment you made about being able to reach things made me laugh, which also struck me as Yondalla-esk.) Try this.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep and you add the spells enumerated below, which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling, spell caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).

    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Beastland Ferocity (Spell), Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Silence, Wings of Cover (Spell)
    3. Delay Death (Spell), Know Vulnerabilities (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr, (Spell) Sheltered Vitality (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by ShriekingDrake View Post
    I think I might go a little lighter--and given the level of your party, this shouldn't affect much in terms of prior play. Some of those upper level spells made less sense to me so I doubled up on the 1-4th level spells and chose defensive spells, which seems consistent with Yondalla's perspective toward halflings. (The only reason I left telekinesis in was because that comment you made about being able to reach things made me laugh, which also struck me as Yondalla-esk.) Try this.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep and you add the spells enumerated below, which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling, spell caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).

    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Beastland Ferocity (Spell), Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Silence, Wings of Cover (Spell)
    3. Delay Death (Spell), Know Vulnerabilities (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr, (Spell) Sheltered Vitality (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis
    This is a good suggestion. While I don't see anything wrong with the 6-9th level spells, I also, after taking a deeper look at Yondalla, can see where the lower level spells might be more appropriate.

    Thanks.

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    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    I'm having some second thoughts about my "wings of cover" recommendation. Too powerful and gives too many other classes access to a sorcerer only spell. Maybe "mirror image" or "alter self"; I don't know. But I'm definitely stepping back from my previous recommendation and staring at it askance.

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    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Just checking in to see where this ended up going. What did you decide to do?

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by backpackjack View Post
    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep and you add the spells enumerated below, which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling, full-caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).

    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Silence
    3. Know Vulnerabilities (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis
    6. Greater Anticipate Teleportation (with twice the range) (Spell)
    7. Starmantle (Exalted Deeds)
    8. Moment of Presence
    9. End to Strife (Exalted Deeds)
    What about a wizard X/fighter 1? How about a paladin 2/sorcerer X? How does multiclassing work with your full caster definition? What about a psion X?

    Do you still have to sleep to regain spells?

    Do these spells take up spell slots, or are they entirely separate? Why can you cast them as immediate actions?
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Thanks for these thoughtful questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    What about a wizard X/fighter 1? How about a paladin 2/sorcerer X? How does multiclassing work with your full caster definition? What about a psion X?
    I appreciate the concern you raised. I edited the original post to now specifically lay out the four traditional casting classes. I suppose I could add others, but I couldn't think of a way to say "have at least one level of a class that is able to cast 9th level spells." Perhaps I should just use the quote I just wrote.

    Do you still have to sleep to regain spells?
    I am wondering if the "rested" I added language I added clears this up. What do you think?

    Do these spells take up spell slots, or are they entirely separate?
    My thought was that they just are added to the list of spells known or knowable or to spells in a spell book.

    Why can you cast them as immediate actions?
    I didn't conceive of this originally, so I don't know what the creator's thinking was. But I'd say that because it's from the halfling god, and most of the spells are protective, I'd say the idea was to keep the small race alive and that the swift halfling gets to do things quickly. I don't mind it. I'm not sure it's broken with any of those spells, but I might have overlooked something?

    Thanks again for the good questions.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by backpackjack View Post
    My thought was that they just are added to the list of spells known or knowable or to spells in a spell book.
    What happens if a wizard's spellbook is already full of spells?
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    I have been running a Monk Sorcerer who ended up with this feat as written below, which the DM approved.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep to get the benefits of sleep and you add the spells listed below, which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling, spell caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).
    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Beastland Ferocity (Spell), Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Mirror Image, Silence (Spell)
    3. Delay Death (Spell), Know Vulnerabilities (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr, (Spell) Sheltered Vitality (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis

    So far, so good. It has not been unbalanced at all. The only thing that I think the DM regrets is that the rest of the party gets a full night's sleep, as my character takes the watch. As a result, he's throwing more monsters at us to disrupt sleep. I've used these spells almost exclusively defensively and haven't used the first level spells, favor of the Martyr, or Delay Death all that much.

    I'll keep you posted.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Thanks, drake. We haven't had similar tensions over the sleep stuff.

    I'll post, soon, the new version of this feat that we've been using. It addresses some of the concerns raised on this site.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Here's what we ended up going with:

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep to get the benefits of sleep and you add the spells listed below, each of which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling, spell caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).
    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Beastland Ferocity (Spell); Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Mirror Image; Silence (Spell)
    3. Alter Fortune (PHII); Delay Death (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr (Spell); Sheltered Vitality (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis

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    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    So how's this going?

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    It seems to be working just fine, actually. Thanks for asking.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    I did a little update.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep to get the benefits of sleep and you add the spells listed below (to the extent that you can cast spells of that level), each of which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Prerequisite: You must be a halfling, divine or spontaneous spell caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).
    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Beastland Ferocity (Spell); Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Mirror Image; Silence
    3. Alter Fortune (PHII); Delay Death (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr (Spell); Sheltered Vitality (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis
    Last edited by backpackjack; 2011-02-24 at 10:37 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by backpackjack View Post
    I did a little update.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep to get the benefits of sleep and you add the spells listed below (to the extent that you can cast spells of that level), each of which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Perequisite: You must be a halfling, divine or spontaneous spell caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).
    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Beastland Ferocity (Spell); Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Mirror Image; Silence (Spell)
    3. Alter Fortune (PHII); Delay Death (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr (Spell); Sheltered Vitality (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis
    Was this change in response to the spellbook problem? OR the full caster problem? OR both?

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by ShriekingDrake View Post
    Was this change in response to the spellbook problem? OR the full caster problem? OR both?
    Both. I ran the issue by my DM who came up with the language.

    One guy in our group keeps advocating for including Alter Self, but I think that we don't need that here. I think these particular spells are quite halfling/hobbitish.

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    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by backpackjack View Post
    2. Mirror Image; Silence (Spell)
    Silence is not the in the Spell Compendium.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Oooops. Fixed it.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by backpackjack View Post
    I did a little update.

    Yondalla's Favor [Exalted]
    Because Yondalla finds favor in you, you no longer need to sleep to get the benefits of sleep and you add the spells listed below (to the extent that you can cast spells of that level), each of which may be cast as an immediate action, to your spell list or list of spells known.
    Prerequisite: You must be a halfling, divine or spontaneous spell caster with the saint template to be eligible for this feat and Yondalla must find favor with you (DM's discretion).
    0. Prestidigitation
    1. Beastland Ferocity (Spell); Blood Wind (Spell)
    2. Mirror Image; Silence
    3. Alter Fortune (PHII); Delay Death (Spell)
    4. Favor of the Martyr (Spell); Sheltered Vitality (Spell)
    5. Telekinesis
    This is cool. But why these particular spells? What does this have to do with halflings and Yondalla?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Yondalla's Favor [3.Xe] (an exalted feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by cowsay View Post
    This is cool. But why these particular spells? What does this have to do with halflings and Yondalla?
    I proposed many of the spells on the current list, so I donít feel bad chiming in before bpj does. But a general disclaimer, I didnít create this feat, I only tried to improve it.

    My thinking was largely influenced by my impression of hobbits and halflings. I tried to think about what made sense for this group of little people upon whose grace Yondallaís favor falls. As youíll see from the thread, some of the spells were a part of the OP query and I tried to keep as many as made sense to me. I thought about Yondalla protecting her people through the favored one and about how hobbits/halflings seem (at least to me) to lead lucky/protected lives with a dash of trickery thrown in.

    Prestidigitation: This plays nicely into the trickery theme. Little halflings doing bits of small magic to amuse (smoke rings, etc.) seems to fit them nicely.
    Beastland Ferocity: Iím a bit of Tolkien fan and I have always envisioned the little people as being made of tougher stuff than it at first blush appears.
    Blood Wind: This seems also to be a bit of a tricky spell allowing a halfling to attack at some distance, perhaps even as a distraction, to allow her compatriots to flee. This also seemed a fitting way to let halflings attack targets that were otherwise out of reach.
    Mirror Image: As a solid defensive spell, this fits with the idea that Yondalla seeks to protect her people and having multiple copies, seems fitting.
    Silence: Halflings pride themselves on being quite quiet when they wish to be. This can help.
    Alter Fortune: This seems fitting, given how lucky hobbits tend to be.
    Delay Death: See the Beastland Ferocity rationale.
    Favor of the Martyr: Yondalla is part paladin, so it seemed fitting to have something in there representative of that. Moreover, this is the kind of spell that will let a little halfling face a seemingly more powerful enemy (Like Bilbo and Smaug).
    Sheltered Vitality: Ditto, i.e.: this is the kind of spell that will let a little halfling face a seemingly more powerful enemy (Like Bilbo and Smaug).
    Telekinesis: This appealed to me because itís a handy way to reach things that are just placed too high.

    There are certainly many other spells that could fit within the flavor of this spell. But this is why I think these spells fit thematically.

    Thereís my 2 cp.
    Last edited by ShriekingDrake; 2011-02-28 at 04:44 PM.

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