Alchemist in 4e

[felinoel]

Is there anything like a class or something that specializes in alchemy? I am a major fan of the ex-skill and wonder if there is something like the old 3.5 PrC Alchemist in any way in 4e... anyone know?

[Mando Knight]

Closest to an Alchemist is the Artificer, in the Eberron Player's Guide. Gets access to better alchemy than the other Ritual Casters (since the Artificer has a unique feat that grants access to Alchemy and gives a +3 level bonus to crafting alchemical items), and several powers have an alchemical flavor.

Unfortunately, alchemy itself is very weak in 4e. The items aren't that powerful, with set attack/damage rolls that quickly make themselves obsolete, and the time and resources spent making and using them are usually better spent on improving and using your own powers. Alchemical items are in essence items you use to supplement your powers, never replace them.

[mobdrazhar]

i do find it useful it you take the alchemical opportunist feat though

[Kurald Galain]

What Mando said.

Also, the Artificer is a solid class with a definite alchemical vibe to it.

[felinoel]

I see, well thanks guys, hope a real alchemist comes out soon though then...

[Oracle_Hunter]

I see, well thanks guys, hope a real alchemist comes out soon though then...

Seriously, check out the Artificer.

It's everything you might want from an "alchemist" and it already exists.

Read it over and let us know what you feel is missing.

[Faleldir]

I know what he wants.
He wants a class called "Alchemist" that explicitly says "These powers are not magic, but not too sci-fi or too anime either". Whether it's actually good at doing what an alchemist does is irrelevant, just like the 3.5 Ninja class.

[felinoel]

Seriously, check out the Artificer.

It's everything you might want from an "alchemist" and it already exists.

Read it over and let us know what you feel is missing.

I am, I will be using it

I know what he wants.
He wants a class called "Alchemist" that explicitly says "These powers are not magic, but not too sci-fi or too anime either". Whether it's actually good at doing what an alchemist does is irrelevant, just like the 3.5 Ninja class.

No no... I am using the artificer, I just still want an alchemist class

[SSGoW]

See at first I thought you may have meant alchemist as in Full Metal but I'm glad you are not going that route and actually mean an alchemist...

You could always let Artificers make items even cheaper and then replace the [W] with [A] meaning that you may use one alchemy item in place of a weapon attack?

With that in mind...

Remember Rikku from Final Fantasy X and X-2? Yeah well what you do is...

Artificer At-will
Mix
Standard Action * effect and elements varies

You may mix your alchemy items together in haste and cause 1d6 + Int mod damage.
*special* You must know how to create an alchemist item, choose one item at that you know how to make and any effects that item has this power can dupluicate. Any effect last till the end of your next turn

21st level: 2d6 + Int mod dmg + effect till end of your next turn

example:
Level 3 artificer knows the alchemist item creation for Slow Oil

At-will: Mix
Standard action
Int vs. Ref
1d6 + Int mod damage and the target is slowed till the end of your next turn

You don't waste money but knowing more alchemy items is a huge advantage...

Plus.. if you have alchemist oppurtunist feat you may use this at-will as an Oppurtunity Attack (or AoO?) lol

[Caphi]

See at first I thought you may have meant alchemist as in Full Metal but I'm glad you are not going that route and actually mean an alchemist...

I think that's called "projection".

[SSGoW]

I know this guy IRL sooo more like educated projection!

[felinoel]

See at first I thought you may have meant alchemist as in Full Metal but I'm glad you are not going that route and actually mean an alchemist...

But I referenced the 3.5e Alchemist PrC in the OP?

You could always let Artificers make items even cheaper and then replace the [W] with [A] meaning that you may use one alchemy item in place of a weapon attack?

Interesting, I just may...

With that in mind...

Remember Rikku from Final Fantasy X and X-2? Yeah well what you do is...

Artificer At-will
Mix
Standard Action * effect and elements varies

You may mix your alchemy items together in haste and cause 1d6 + Int mod damage.
*special* You must know how to create an alchemist item, choose one item at that you know how to make and any effects that item has this power can dupluicate. Any effect last till the end of your next turn

21st level: 2d6 + Int mod dmg + effect till end of your next turn

One item that I know how to make's effects plus the 1d6+int mod for damage?

example:
Level 3 artificer knows the alchemist item creation for Slow Oil

At-will: Mix
Standard action
Int vs. Ref
1d6 + Int mod damage and the target is slowed till the end of your next turn

You don't waste money but knowing more alchemy items is a huge advantage...

So not only does it do its effect, it also hurts them?

Plus.. if you have alchemist oppurtunist feat you may use this at-will as an Oppurtunity Attack (or AoO?) lol

What is the difference between attack of opportunity versus opportunity attack btw?

[SSGoW]

AoO and OA are the same thing just one is 3.x term and the other is 4e but i never remember wich one is which >.> I like OoA look rather than OA lol

anyways

Yes it hurts them a little bit cause you mixed it on the fly and its not just that item but you making a bomb of that item... You can't make that item for free but you can have its effects for free more or less lol Maybe you can choose one item per item level that you know that you can use with this at-will ... So you could do tanglefoot bag and alchemist fire (but not at one time)... Actually...
Heroic: Use one item you can create
Paragon: Use 2 items you can create
Epic: use 3 items that you can create
Keep the damage no matter what tier as 1d6 (represents how volitile the concoction is) and Int because you know where to throw it to hit the enemy the best way possible.

Yes you said that in the OP but the title of the thread + your name under it made me think Full Metal (although there is a paragon path that lets a artificer to become full metal ... lol)

[felinoel]

AoO and OA are the same thing just one is 3.x term and the other is 4e but i never remember wich one is which >.> I like OoA look rather than OA lol

AoO is 3.X

anyways

Yes it hurts them a little bit cause you mixed it on the fly and its not just that item but you making a bomb of that item... You can't make that item for free but you can have its effects for free more or less lol Maybe you can choose one item per item level that you know that you can use with this at-will ... So you could do tanglefoot bag and alchemist fire (but not at one time)... Actually...
Heroic: Use one item you can create
Paragon: Use 2 items you can create
Epic: use 3 items that you can create
Keep the damage no matter what tier as 1d6 (represents how volitile the concoction is) and Int because you know where to throw it to hit the enemy the best way possible.

Awesome, simply awesome

Yes you said that in the OP but the title of the thread + your name under it made me think Full Metal (although there is a paragon path that lets a artificer to become full metal ... lol)

As in the anime?

[SSGoW]

No as in the artificer turns his arm into a metal weapon of doom

[felinoel]

No as in the artificer turns his arm into a metal weapon of doom

So... like the anime? o.O

Now I understand the anime's name! I figured it was just because slightly less then half of him was robotic lol

[SSGoW]

Did you not catch on to what I was doing?

[felinoel]

Did you not catch on to what I was doing?

It is late and I am tired, shush you

[Tengu_temp]

I'm sure there will never be an official alchemist class. All you can do is take an artificer and refluff heavily.

[SSGoW]

Oh! You could always make that at-will...

At-will: Mix
Standard action * Ranged (crossbow)

which could be lots of fun...

I made a wizard that used a hand cross bow to delever spells and turned him into the main character from Outlaw star :3

[felinoel]

I'm sure there will never be an official alchemist class. All you can do is take an artificer and refluff heavily.

How can you be so sure?

Oh! You could always make that at-will...

At-will: Mix
Standard action * Ranged (crossbow)

which could be lots of fun...

I made a wizard that used a hand cross bow to delever spells and turned him into the main character from Outlaw star :3

How do you mean? Do you mean attach the alchemized product to an arrow and fire it at people? Why not just use a sling? That wouldn't fly off course due to the extra weight?

[SSGoW]

No no no it doesn't work that way... If its in the power then you don't attach anything since its part of the power.

If the power says you can deliver a power through a crossbow then you don't have to take an extra action to do stuff... its all part of the power..

[Tengu_temp]

How can you be so sure?

Because alchemy is already a crafting skill. At best we will get an update to it that makes it less useless.

[Siegel]

There is the "Alchemic Savant" PP in EPG

[felinoel]

There is the "Alchemic Savant" PP in EPG

!!!
I overlooked paragon paths even though in 3.5 it was a paragon path?! It even uses the same name as it did in 3.5!

[SSGoW]

when did 3.5 have paragon paths?

Prestige class you mean?

[Kurald Galain]

How can you be so sure?

Because from WOTC previews we pretty much know which classes are in the works, and from history we know they tend to give more emphasis to "iconic" classes, which the alchemist is not. The next classes are publically known to be a reprint of fighter, wizard, cleric, thief, druid, paladin, ranger, and warlock; and the bladedancer, necromancer, and hexblade.

[felinoel]

when did 3.5 have paragon paths?

Prestige class you mean?

I didn't care to bother with stating both the 3.5 name and 4.0 name of the same thing just because Gygax died thus allowing WotC to ruin his creation

Because from WOTC previews we pretty much know which classes are in the works, and from history we know they tend to give more emphasis to "iconic" classes, which the alchemist is not. The next classes are publically known to be a reprint of fighter, wizard, cleric, thief, druid, paladin, ranger, and warlock; and the bladedancer, necromancer, and hexblade.

Ummm, but yea... it already is made though? Alchemist Savant? The PrC/Paragon Path I overlooked that was just being talked about?

[Kurald Galain]

Ummm, but yea... it already is made though? Alchemist Savant? The PrC/Paragon Path I overlooked that was just being talked about?

Tengu was talking about an alchemist class, not a paragon path.

Yes, the PP exists, in the Eberron Player's Guide if I recall correctly. It is fairly unimpressive, though; you'd be better off with any other artificer PP.

[felinoel]

Tengu was talking about an alchemist class, not a paragon path.

Yes, the PP exists, in the Eberron Player's Guide if I recall correctly. It is fairly unimpressive, though; you'd be better off with any other artificer PP.

Well I was talking about anything alchemy related