Polymorphed Constructs and Lycanthropy

[felinoel]

4e

Ok, so I have this living construct, Shardmind, who was polymorphed and got infected with lycanthropy...
When he depolymorphs... is he still lycanthropic?

[Urpriest]

How was he polymorphed?

The answer is generally yes, but polymorphing doesn't have a standard way that it works in 4e. Also, living constructs aren't immune to disease in 4e.

[felinoel]

How was he polymorphed?

The answer is generally yes, but polymorphing doesn't have a standard way that it works in 4e. Also, living constructs aren't immune to disease in 4e.

Alchemist made a potion.

We had the lycanthropic disease be spread through a bite infecting the blood, which the Shardmind has no blood?

[Urpriest]

Alchemist made a potion.

We had the lycanthropic disease be spread through a bite infecting the blood, which the Shardmind has no blood?

Irrelevant. 4e only cares about keywords, and "bloodless" is not a keyword. Shardminds are just as susceptible to lycanthropy as Humans, Eladrin, or even Revenants. As far as I know, no 4e playable races have immunity to disease.

What was the name of the potion? I'm not all that familiar with the 4e alchemy rules, I wasn't aware there were any that did stuff like polymorphing, but I'll look around.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'm guessing it's something similar to "DM Fiat Lycanthropy Plot Potion", but you never know.

[felinoel]

Irrelevant. 4e only cares about keywords, and "bloodless" is not a keyword. Shardminds are just as susceptible to lycanthropy as Humans, Eladrin, or even Revenants. As far as I know, no 4e playable races have immunity to disease.

What was the name of the potion? I'm not all that familiar with the 4e alchemy rules, I wasn't aware there were any that did stuff like polymorphing, but I'll look around.

That... doesn't make sense?
But ummm sure... k then?

[The Pressman]

That... doesn't make sense?
But ummm sure... k then?

If that doesn't make sense, think of what a werewolf warforged would look like.

[Yuki Akuma]

That... doesn't make sense?
But ummm sure... k then?

The game mechanics makes no distinction between beings with blood and beings without blood. Thus, from a purely mechanical point of view, a Shardmind can become a lycanthrope.

But there's also this thing called plot, which can override game mechanics in such instances.

[felinoel]

If that doesn't make sense, think of what a werewolf warforged would look like.

Totally... effing... AWESOME!

o.o

The game mechanics makes no distinction between beings with blood and beings without blood. Thus, from a purely mechanical point of view, a Shardmind can become a lycanthrope.

But there's also this thing called plot, which can override game mechanics in such instances.

Plot was kind of what I was talking about, but yea, the guy wants to be a werebat so as long as it works as far as the rules are concerned then it is fine

[Urpriest]

Totally... effing... AWESOME!

o.oPlot was kind of what I was talking about, but yea, the guy wants to be a werebat so as long as it works as far as the rules are concerned then it is fine

There are two questions here:

1. Plot: If your DM thinks it's appropriate, he/she can create some effect that this would have, or rule that it shouldn't.

2. Rules as Written: Shardminds can be affected by Lycanthropy, but Lycanthropes generally end up attacking things randomly (depending on the variety of lycanthropy, which is usually listed as a disease in the monster's entry). As such, a werebat doesn't make much of a character.

Basically, if you want this to work, ask the DM how it's going to work, and together you can agree on some rules. There isn't a set way to get what you want out of this situation.

[felinoel]

There are two questions here:

1. Plot: If your DM thinks it's appropriate, he/she can create some effect that this would have, or rule that it shouldn't.

2. Rules as Written: Shardminds can be affected by Lycanthropy, but Lycanthropes generally end up attacking things randomly (depending on the variety of lycanthropy, which is usually listed as a disease in the monster's entry). As such, a werebat doesn't make much of a character.

Basically, if you want this to work, ask the DM how it's going to work, and together you can agree on some rules. There isn't a set way to get what you want out of this situation.

As long as the rules say it works, the DM is fine with it

[Urpriest]

As long as the rules say it works, the DM is fine with it

The rules say a Shardmind can get infected with lycanthropy. However, just to warn you again, the rules say that someone infected with lycanthropy can't control their powers, so the guy who plays the Shardmind should probably be told that he won't get any cool shape-shifting powers, and might really inconvenience the party.

[TheManlyFlower]

If that doesn't make sense, think of what a werewolf warforged would look like.

First thing that came to mind was the old Beasties Transformers show...

AUTOBOTS TRANSFORM!

*Queue old transformers transformation SFX*

[felinoel]

The rules say a Shardmind can get infected with lycanthropy. However, just to warn you again, the rules say that someone infected with lycanthropy can't control their powers, so the guy who plays the Shardmind should probably be told that he won't get any cool shape-shifting powers, and might really inconvenience the party.

Where exactly are these rules by the way? I skimmed the lycanthrope entry in the Monster Manual and didn't see them there but I guess I could have overlooked them? Or are they elsewhere?

First thing that came to mind was the old Beasties Transformers show...

AUTOBOTS TRANSFORM!

*Queue old transformers transformation SFX*

lol I made that reference when we were playing

[Urpriest]

Where exactly are these rules by the way? I skimmed the lycanthrope entry in the Monster Manual and didn't see them there but I guess I could have overlooked them? Or are they elsewhere?

First of all, I'm not sure where the stats for a Werebat are. Each lycanthropy disease is different. The one for Werewolves, for example, is listed on the bottom of page 181. If you look at the Werebat entry you'll find something similar to that, unless the DM made up the stats for the Werebat, in which case it's their call how the disease works.

[Keld Denar]

Taa-Daa!!!!!!!

Spoiler

Show

[felinoel]

First of all, I'm not sure where the stats for a Werebat are. Each lycanthropy disease is different. The one for Werewolves, for example, is listed on the bottom of page 181. If you look at the Werebat entry you'll find something similar to that, unless the DM made up the stats for the Werebat, in which case it's their call how the disease works.

I am not looking for the stats of a werebat, I am looking for the rules of lycanthropy, I am aware that it likely will have the stats of a werewolf and that those will need to be adjusted to that stats of a werebat, I just want these lycanthropy rules you reference

Are these rules you reference also on page 181? I will go now to check

[Yuki Akuma]

There are no rules on lycanthropy. There are rules on werewolves and wererats and so on, specifically, but no general lycanthropy rules.

[felinoel]

There are no rules on lycanthropy. There are rules on werewolves and wererats and so on, specifically, but no general lycanthropy rules.

You mean there are stats and behavior of wererats and werewolves, but no rules on lycanthropy, which is contrary to what Urpriest was saying?

[dgnslyr]

Totally... effing... AWESOME!

o.oPlot was kind of what I was talking about, but yea, the guy wants to be a werebat so as long as it works as far as the rules are concerned then it is fine

I'd allow it, if only because a cyborg were-bat would be so freaking cool.

[felinoel]

I'd allow it, if only because a cyborg were-bat would be so freaking cool.

lol so true, a furry mass of movable crystals, some would see it as an abomination, though I already would call the shardmind that anyways

[Urpriest]

You mean there are stats and behavior of wererats and werewolves, but no rules on lycanthropy, which is contrary to what Urpriest was saying?

No, it's that there are stats on "I have been bitten by a Werewolf and now have contracted lycanthropy" and different stats for "I have been bitten by a Wereboar and have contracted lycanthropy". There isn't a general way lycanthropy works, rather each lycanthrope has different mechanics for it. Page 181 has a disease called Moon Frenzy, which is supposed to be the equivalent to Werewolf Lycanthropy. Similar diseases in the MM2 cover Wereboars and the like. There isn't one set of rules for lycanthropy, each form is a different disease.

[felinoel]

No, it's that there are stats on "I have been bitten by a Werewolf and now have contracted lycanthropy" and different stats for "I have been bitten by a Wereboar and have contracted lycanthropy". There isn't a general way lycanthropy works, rather each lycanthrope has different mechanics for it. Page 181 has a disease called Moon Frenzy, which is supposed to be the equivalent to Werewolf Lycanthropy. Similar diseases in the MM2 cover Wereboars and the like. There isn't one set of rules for lycanthropy, each form is a different disease.

Odd... because that is contrary to what you have been saying...

The rules say a Shardmind can get infected with lycanthropy. However, just to warn you again, the rules say that someone infected with lycanthropy can't control their powers, so the guy who plays the Shardmind should probably be told that he won't get any cool shape-shifting powers, and might really inconvenience the party.

[Urpriest]

Odd... because that is contrary to what you have been saying...

Sorry, let me clarify: there are no central rules for lycanthropy. However, every "lycanthropy disease" that has been printed has a final stage that makes the sufferer attack allies. While you could design a new lycanthropy disease without this feature, it wouldn't fit the theme of the design of the others.

[felinoel]

Sorry, let me clarify: there are no central rules for lycanthropy. However, every "lycanthropy disease" that has been printed has a final stage that makes the sufferer attack allies. While you could design a new lycanthropy disease without this feature, it wouldn't fit the theme of the design of the others.

You mean every lycanthropy disease except those in 4e? Because those in 4e speak only of being born into lycanthropy, not of contracting it, in fact, the bite of a lycanthrope in 4e just makes you really, really ill until someone uncurses you or you die or something.

[FelixG]

You mean every lycanthropy disease except those in 4e? Because those in 4e speak only of being born into lycanthropy, not of contracting it, in fact, the bite of a lycanthrope in 4e just makes you really, really ill until someone uncurses you or you die or something.

Now you are contracting yourself....

4e

Ok, so I have this living construct, Shardmind, who was polymorphed and got infected with lycanthropy...
When he depolymorphs... is he still lycanthropic?

If the only lycanthropes are ones born into it then your little 4e construct cant contract it, he would need to be born with it, polymorphed or not.

[felinoel]

Now you are contracting yourself....

If the only lycanthropes are ones born into it then your little 4e construct cant contract it, he would need to be born with it, polymorphed or not.

I was commenting on the lack of rules for the subject matter; unlike Urpriest, I never said that the polymorphed Shardmind followed any rules, in fact the sole purpose of this thread was to discern what the actual rules were since I was unable to find any, then Urpriest comes along quoting these rules of his and got my hopes up