Yugoloth Lords?

[Ponderthought]

While creating the deities for my setting, I decided that fiendish cults should have some representation, specifically cults of certain archfiends, like Orcus and Dispater. So I hit upon the idea of having one cult for each race of fiends. Lawful evil types worship Dispater and chaotic evil types worship Orcus.. but who whould neutral evil types worship? For the life of me i can find a list of yugoloth lords. So the question is, A: Where could i find such a list, and B: would it be worthwhile to make up some yugoloth princes?

[arguskos]

A. There are several 'loth "lords", if you want to call them that. The Yugoloths as a race are nominally led by the General of Gehenna and by the Oinoloth (a position held by one 'loth at a time). Since the 'loths are mercenaries, they're not the most organized race ever, but they do have leaders.

B. No. See, the 'loths are the mercs of the Lower Planes. They'll do anything for a coin or three. They don't really have many centralized authority figures, save the two mentioned above, and adding more takes away from their appeal as a people.

C. Why Dispater and Orcus? Graz'zt is a more fitting demon prince to worship, seeing as how he actively fosters cults like it's nobody's business. As for devils, Mephistopheles is the cult master there, since he's trying to usurp the Lord of Hell through gaining a divinity.

[Baron Corm]

The Demented One made a bunch of powerful yugoloths which could be taken as-is or reflavored into commanders of various yugoloth mercenary factions, if you want something more like that: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83367. It's the only thing I know of that's close to what you're looking for. To really shape them into yugoloth lords I think they would need some renaming at least, but in the various supplements I've seen, the seven deadly sins tend to be a yugoloth thing, so these are a good place to start.

[Ponderthought]

I mainly picked orcus and dispater to fill out the pantheons of the setting, but im thinking Graz'zt might actually fill the position better, as I already have several undead themed powers. Dispater stays though, mainly just because i like him.

As for the 'loths, it just seems like their should be some of immense power, even if they arent actively ruling their races. Something akin to the afor mentioned archfiends, who are already semi-divine

Edit: Seven deadly sins you say? That might make it quite easy to brew some up...

[arguskos]

I mainly picked orcus and dispater to fill out the pantheons of the setting, but im thinking Graz'zt might actually fill the position better, as I already have several undead themed powers. Dispater stays though, mainly just because i like him.

Orcus is not really the cult master that Graz'zt is. I'd definitely recommend him

As for the 'loths, it just seems like their should be some of immense power, even if they arent actively ruling their races. Something akin to the afor mentioned archfiends, who are already semi-divine

1. Archfiends aren't semi-divine. What source are you using for that?

2. See, the General of Gehenna and the Oinoloth ARE what you are looking for. Both are immensely powerful and commanding, though the nature of the the 'loths mean that a large amount of the race just ignores them, much as the majority of demons ignore the Princes unless in their realms or presences.

The yugoloths don't need more lords, since due to their mercenary natures, they're not that unified. Adding more lords doesn't make any sense, unless you reflavor the entire race, which is an option (though as a fond fan of Planescape, one I don't support nor suggest).

EDIT: I STRONGLY recommend reading this and paying good attention. More details about things like the General and the Oinoloth can be found online if one digs a little.

[Ponderthought]

1. Archfiends aren't semi-divine. What source are you using for that?

2. See, the General of Gehenna and the Oinoloth ARE what you are looking for. Both are immensely powerful and commanding, though the nature of the the 'loths mean that a large amount of the race just ignores them, much as the majority of demons ignore the Princes unless in their realms or presences.

The yugoloths don't need more lords, since due to their mercenary natures, they're not that unified. Adding more lords doesn't make any sense, unless you reflavor the entire race, which is an option (though as a fond fan of Planescape, one I don't support nor suggest).

The various fiend folios. And Orcus is listed as demigod in a few supplements (fluctuating power levels). Point is, some can grant cleric spells, making them semi-divine in the broadest sense.



Ive always been quite infatuated with planescape myself, so i wouldnt approach reflavoring them lightly. More like adding some rather "accomplished" members of their species. Or maybe detail some Baernaloths. They might fit the bill, plus they seem less like a class of fiends and more like a group of horrifically powerful individuals.

[arguskos]

The various fiend folios. And Orcus is listed as demigod in a few supplements (fluctuating power levels). Point is, some can grant cleric spells, making them semi-divine in the broadest sense.

The spell thing is more that they worship the fiend, and gain their power from devotion instead of the fiend. Fiends cannot grant spells, they're not powers. It's like worshipping an ideal, you know?

If the problems organization, I wouldnt think the abyss had any power players either.

Well, it's not entirely organization. It's more mindset. See, 'loths obey in the presence of a powerful individual like the General or the Oinoloth or a baernoloth or something, but they're independent. They do their own thing. What's the point of more organization? They just don't care. Demons grab what they can through brute force. Devils are regimented. Yugoloths just do what they want and damn anyone who gets in the way. A strong leader would actually RESTRICT that in many cases.

Ive always been quite infatuated with planescape myself, so i wouldnt approach reflavoring them lightly. More like adding some rather "accomplished" members of their species. Or maybe detail some Baernaloths. They might fit the bill, plus they seem less like a class of fiends and more like a group of horrifically powerful individuals.

The link I gave above has some examples.

EDIT: As for the Baernoloths, they're a mostly secret and private race of progenitor fiends. Little is known about them at all. They're a good source to make stuff up for, if you want to, but they're not really 'loths. Instead, 'loths are like their children really.

[Ponderthought]

indeed. For I, in my foolishness, looked everywhere but wikipedia.

Im thinking Harishek Ap Thulkesh might make a good (if obscure) cult patron. The cults actually have more of a reason for existing than most in this setting, due to the settings odd cosmology(a pair of worlds inextricably linked). The fiendish lords are intrigued by this, and the horrible fate of one of the worlds (consumed by Taint)

[Zaydos]

The Blood War box set for 2e gave hints that the yugoloths had some rulers, or ruling council, but never said what. It did make it clear that their mercenary actions were not actually as mercenary as they seem and were coordinated by someone or something (mostly to extend the Blood War and maintain a balance between Law and Chaos as far as Evil was concerned). It also had some references to the General of Gehenna as possibly being the most powerful yugoloth and/or their leader, but it never really told the dark of it even in the DM book. A lot of the old planescape books specifically leave stuff half fleshed out so you can finish them up later, I personally kind of like that.

The big thing is that the loths don't care much for human worshipers. I'd actually go for the baernoloths which were the yugoloths' creators and closest thing they had to gods.

Now I want to re-read the Blood War box set... if I could only find all the books in the pile of stuff called my room...

[arguskos]

You know, if the other fiendish lords are getting more directly involved, the General has a vested interest in becoming involved as well. There are signs that point towards him keeping the war going and preventing an end for some inscrutable reason. Perhaps expounding upon that is a worthwhile course of action?

[Ponderthought]

Its looking like ill be creating a baernoloth lord, as the unique ones ive dug up are either just names or dont fit the bill.

Id use the General, Magnifcient Bastard that he is, but it just dosent seem to jive with the setting.

Im thinking the other might be trying to use their cults to dig up ancient secrets on this world (the system is one of the oldest in the Prime Material), or harness the power of the plague of taint to weaken the other side. That might actually be where the general would get involved, sending minions to ensure there is no easy way to end the Blood War. I imagine Big Baernoloth Daddy would be looking for something even more esoteric. Inscrutable goals.

[arguskos]

See, I like working things in a bit deeper than that.

Consider the following tin hat speculation if you will:
-The General's identity is unknown.
-The baernoloths created the yugoloths and then vanished for parts unknown (rumored to be underneath the Four Furnaces of Gehenna, but no one knows).
-The Yugoloths dance to the secret tune of their own whims.

The General might BE the father of the Yugoloths. It's entirely possible. Since there have been 'loths, there has been the General, so why not? The baerns aren't talking, the General isn't talking, so why not? He acts for the benefit of the 'loths, and the parent baern might do that, so why not? Play up the conspiracy theories, use the General, let rumors fly, and in true yugoloth fashion, keep the dark of it to yourself.

[Urpriest]

I'm going to second the earlier recommendation of the Oinoloth. While most yugoloth leaders are simply interested in the continued success of the species, the Oinoloth promotes disease as a general agenda, and in fact serves as something of a lord of all illness. He is by far the most plausible yugoloth for mortals to worship (besides perhaps Charon, who I would also recommend). He's already got a flavor much like Warhammer's Nurgle.

[arguskos]

I'm going to second the earlier recommendation of the Oinoloth. While most yugoloth leaders are simply interested in the continued success of the species, the Oinoloth promotes disease as a general agenda, and in fact serves as something of a lord of all illness. He is by far the most plausible yugoloth for mortals to worship (besides perhaps Charon, who I would also recommend). He's already got a flavor much like Warhammer's Nurgle.

Actually, Anthraxus (the specific Oinoloth you are referencing) has been deposed. Now, Mydianchlarus is Oinoloth, and he doesn't share Anthraxus' disease focus.

If you wanted such a yugoloth though, Anthraxus is still roaming around being badass and stuff, so you can break him out if you feel the need.

[Urpriest]

Actually, Anthraxus (the specific Oinoloth you are referencing) has been deposed. Now, Mydianchlarus is Oinoloth, and he doesn't share Anthraxus' disease focus.

If you wanted such a yugoloth though, Anthraxus is still roaming around being badass and stuff, so you can break him out if you feel the need.

I had the impression that the Oinoloth's disease focus was a result of the specific powers of the throne, not the individual who held it. At least, that was how it was presented in the old 3.0 Manual of the Planes. More WotC indecisiveness I guess.

Edit: Is Charon still around?

[arguskos]

I had the impression that the Oinoloth's disease focus was a result of the specific powers of the throne, not the individual who held it. At least, that was how it was presented in the old 3.0 Manual of the Planes. More WotC indecisiveness I guess.

Edit: Is Charon still around?

When I was reading up on the Oinoloth, it was implied that the title amplified the nature of the being holding it. Anthraxus is a disease-focused individual. Made sense to me.

As for Charon, yuppers. He's still the boatman on the Styx. He even has an entire sub-race of 'loths that do his work, the Marraenoloths.

[Eldan]

If you want Baerns in your setting, there is really only one source for you:

Shemeshka the Marauder.

That guy is a great writer. Actually, he's been hired to write the books on the Pathfinder planes.