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    herrhauptmann's Avatar

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    Default 3.5 Would this be too much?

    We all know how certain casting classes get bonuses when using certain spells.
    Two biggest I think of off the top of my head, are the abjurant champions (swift to cast, and add AC level to the AC gained), and swiftblade, who gets special things when under the effects of his own haste spell.


    Would it be overpowered to let these characters include those abilities when crafting an item like a wand or scroll?
    Say the swiftblade is a wizard 6/ swiftblade 6, so he's got fortified hustle. Ordinarily when making a scroll, he'll use his lowest possible caster level (spell level 3, caster 5) and get a standard haste spell.
    But if he wanted to include fortified hustle, alacrity, and celerity, he'd be able to, he would just have to use the lowest level he could cast haste and use those abilities (swift6), so spell level 3, caster level 10.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    Don't do it. Your players will abuse this to such lengths that you can't even comprehend, and then desecrate the corpses of the monsters encounters they just slaughtered in one round.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    I would say no as well. This is partially for balance reasons (though I don't think it would affect the player so much as, say, his teammates who would suddenly have all the Swiftblade class abilities for free--that, as a DM, is something you cannot allow), but also partially for fluff reasons.


    Note, for instance, that others affected by his Haste spells don't get any benefit beyond the normal spell effects. This is to prevent him from becoming the most broken buffer in all of D&D, yes, but it also relates to the flavor of the class--namely, that he is infused with residual Haste energy that he alone has access to.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    Imagine, if you will, a fighter with boots that not only allow him to act with haste, but can also act first in each round. This fighter (wielding a greatsword) could deal 4d6+{3*Strength modifier} damage before a single enemy even attacked. He would also be able to avoid spells and mundane attacks 20-40% of the time. That is called broken gaming.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by iDM View Post
    Imagine, if you will, a fighter with boots that not only allow him to act with haste, but can also act first in each round. This fighter (wielding a greatsword) could deal 4d6+{3*Strength modifier} damage before a single enemy even attacked. He would also be able to avoid spells and mundane attacks 20-40% of the time. That is called broken gaming.
    Actually, that would be a "needed buff" in the case of the Fighter. The real issue is that when Cleric of Wizard puts the those boots on and starts abusing it while still not giving up any spell levels, or Dweomerkeeper/Incantatrix access, all hell really starts to break loose. When all creatures start combat dead/incapacitated/mind controlled unless they have the same boots, you know something's wrong.

    Though I wonder how you get the "also act first in each round"-part; no PrC to my knowledge grants that directly through a spell, and only few boost Initiative, none through spell effects. But still, e.g. Swiftblade Haste Boots would suddenly give all casters access to 3.0 Haste without lost CL & PrC access, no thanks.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-08-10 at 10:38 PM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    You could make scrolls for double price that are simply a haste, but used by the creator add the abilities he would otherwise only get from cold casting it.

    That way he has to worry less about running out of his critical spell and can just use monetary resources to replace it. Something normal casters do all the time.
    Letting others umd it, or just get his benefits in any way, is right out though.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    If you have to ask the answer is usually YES.

    This thread is no exception.
    Last edited by Kaww; 2010-08-11 at 07:58 AM.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Escheton View Post
    You could make scrolls for double price that are simply a haste, but used by the creator add the abilities he would otherwise only get from cold casting it.

    That way he has to worry less about running out of his critical spell and can just use monetary resources to replace it. Something normal casters do all the time.
    Letting others umd it, or just get his benefits in any way, is right out though.
    That's pretty much what I was envisioning, just not spelled out.
    Making it into items for the rest of the party, well I can't see the average wizard being that generous, what with XP hit and all that. Plus something like boots of haste that can be used more than 3/day already cost about 25k (that's just infinite use, not continuous), upping that to a CL of 10 and you've suddenly got a significant portion of your resources put into a pair of boots. Awesome boots, but boots nonetheless. About a quarter of WBL at level 15.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Though I wonder how you get the "also act first in each round"-part; no PrC to my knowledge grants that directly through a spell, and only few boost Initiative, none through spell effects. But still, e.g. Swiftblade Haste Boots would suddenly give all casters access to 3.0 Haste without lost CL & PrC access, no thanks.
    I see your concerns, but to be fair, perpetual options doesn't occur until swift9, ie: Level 15. If you run a magic walmart type game that'll happen often, but not if the only swiftblade they're liable to meet is already in the party. And who's gonna say the party caster will spend a feat on any craft object, let alone craft wondrous item.
    Last edited by herrhauptmann; 2010-08-11 at 04:45 PM.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    I see your concerns, but to be fair, perpetual options doesn't occur until swift9, ie: Level 15. If you run a magic walmart type game that'll happen often, but not if the only swiftblade they're liable to meet is already in the party. And who's gonna say the party caster will spend a feat on craft object, let alone craft wondrous item.
    Scribe Scroll, though, is gained as a bonus feat. Also, casters can collaborate in creating an item with one having the item creation feat and other providing the spell; as such, as long as the world contains persons with the Craft-feats, any items imbued with the Swiftblade's Haste would be available.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Would this be too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Scribe Scroll, though, is gained as a bonus feat. Also, casters can collaborate in creating an item with one having the item creation feat and other providing the spell; as such, as long as the world contains persons with the Craft-feats, any items imbued with the Swiftblade's Haste would be available.
    Only for wizards is it a bonus feat. Considering all the other types that can gain access to swiftblade. Plus there's all the other PrC's that are based on a single spell, or set of spells.

    For that cooperation thing, do you have a link to it? I swear I saw a printout to it from the interweb, but haven't found it in several years.

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