Researching Original Spells

[aeauseth]

In the DMG35 pg 198 there is a section on researching original spells. It provides no guildlines what so ever.

I remember seeing somewhere a general guideline about arcane spells using d6's and divine using d8's, with max damage per spell level, max range/cone sizes per spell level, durations, etc. Anyone know where those guidelines are at?

Specificlly I have a player who wants to make a 24 hour Align Fang. The standard spell is Druid2 1min/level. I roughly figured Druid3 1hr/level and Druid4 24hrs. Seems reasonable, but I wanted to find some guidelines to make sure it was reasonable.

Using the same logic for the Shield spell Wiz1 1 min/level would be Wiz3 for a 24hr sheild spell. Seems a bit too powerful. (ie: I'd rather have this spell than Displacement for 1round/level)

Should I increase the level by 2 for each duration increase. Thus a 24 hour sheild would be level Wiz5? This seems about right. (ie: Wiz5 Permanency would seem to compare well, so does Wiz4 Greater Invisibility).

So by my estimation a Durid6 spell of 24 hour Align Fang seems reasonable.

[Kylarra]

I don't know where such a general guideline is, but I would just match it to an appropriate spell +metamagic if possible, and if not, come up with closest approximation.

[aeauseth]

I would just match it to an appropriate spell +metamagic if possible

So for a 24 hour spell that would be persistent for a +6. Seems a bit rough, but definately a good starting point.

[Kylarra]

So for a 24 hour spell that would be persistent for a +6. Seems a bit rough, but definately a good starting point.

Yeah, all day buffs are rough because you can extend them to double their duration and thus only need to buff every other day or so and save spell slots.

[Eldariel]

I remember seeing somewhere a general guideline about arcane spells using d6's and divine using d8's, with max damage per spell level, max range/cone sizes per spell level, durations, etc. Anyone know where those guidelines are at?

DMG Page 36 has the damage limitations, at least.

[Human Paragon 3]

Level 7 for 24 hr magic fang seems way over the top. Level 4 sounds right to me.

[Kylarra]

Level 7 for 24 hr magic fang seems way over the top. Level 4 sounds right to me.

Align fang is a level 2 that well... aligns your natural weapon for the purpose of overcoming DR.

[Human Paragon 3]

Oh, align fang. That's a little different, but still.

Why 24 hours? Why not 1/hr per level or 2/hr per level like Mount?

[aeauseth]

DMG Page 36 has the damage limitations, at least.

Thanks, this was what I was looking for! Pretty good guidelines. Doesn't specifically address durations. I remember the discussion about comparing the best X level spell with the new spell you are trying to create.

[Kylarra]

Oh, align fang. That's a little different, but still.

Why 24 hours? Why not 1/hr per level or 2/hr per level like Mount?

I dunno to be honest. Setting it to 24 means that it should be a higher level, because extend spell is only +1.

[Human Paragon 3]

Well, compare flight to overland flight. I think that's a good measurement.

[Telonius]

Let's have a look at Greater Magic Fang, since it's a bit easier to show it with that. A level 12 druid casting an Extended GMF would use up a 4th-level spell slot to get +3 for 24-hours. That's +3 to attack and damage on all attacks; quite a bit more powerful than simply having something Good for purposes of DR. Just eyeballing it from that, a 24-hour version of Align Fang would probably be between Druid 2 (for regular Align Fang) and Druid 4 (for extended Greater Magic Fang). I'd call it Druid 3.

[Kylarra]

Those examples tell me it should be +2 spell levels for hr/lvl duration, which I'd be fine with.

[ericgrau]

Generally you look at similar spells to figure it out. So the obvious answer might be druid 2 for 1 min/level. Other considerations are "Is this druid territory", "how effective will the spell be when optimally used" (not just random situations), "does it stack with other spells" (meaning the player is still getting a power boost even if you make the spell equal to the other spells) etc.

Optimally it would be self targeted and used against up to DR/10 against creatures of around CR 11, After that you need a special metal as well. It does stack with other sources of damage, there is no other core way to do this to natural weapons, and alignment isn't really druid territory. The main drawback is the limited duration often forcing you to burn a round to cast it. A minor drawback is even in a demon campaign you might not always know if you'll be fighting one. So it's almost (but not quite) as good as +10 damage when you can use it well; +5 at lower levels, which is kinda like scaling. Multiply that by 4 for total damage in an average combat. +X buffs tend to be weaker than direct damage if you're forced to spend a combat round on one (generally you use a buffing round when possible). Flame strike is 11d6 (38.5) at caster level 11 for a 4th level spell. So I'm leaning towards druid 4. The fact that it's alignment based (cleric territory) cinches it. A 1 hour/level duration is almost as good as quickening it, so I'd put that at druid 7.

That's used optimally. You may say "Whatever, I'm not running a campaign through the 9 hells so as-is the spell isn't that useful and will never see play". Then I would drop it 1 or 2 levels, depending on how common DR/good monsters are. The main thing when balancing a spell is to select a level such that the player barely wants to use it and sometimes prepares a different spell instead. If he prepares it every day it's too strong, never prepares it (even after he's tried it out once), then it's too weak.

[aeauseth]

We decided to bail on the 24 hour spell and allow the following 1hr/level custom spells. The 24 hour just got too complicated to determine level and 1hr/level is close enough, possibly requiring 2-3 castings depending on activity and foe composition (like in hell or something).

ALIGN FANG, IMPROVED
Transmutation [see text]
Level: Druid 3, ranger 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell functions like align fang,
except that it has a longer duration.

and

ALIGN FANG, GREATER
Transmutation [see text]
Level: Druid 4, ranger 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell functions like align fang,
except that it has a longer duration
and natural weapons are considered
bane (+2d6 against outsiders of the
selected alignment).