Ok, looking for some Ranger help now.

[Nick_mi]

I have a level 5 ranger who is going into a high power level campaign. Current stats are

Str: 16(+3)
Dex: 21(+5)
Cha: 10(+0)
Wis: 12(+1)
Int: 14(+1)
Con: 10(+0)

Weapon:
Composite long bow +3 with a cold and fire enchantment for 2d6 damage.

I also have a buckler with animation.

Feats:
Improved Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Animal Companion:Owl

Looking to class into something that will keep the scouting roll, but kinda of looking for some DPS. Maybe branch out as a healer somehow, but I don't think I have the int or wis for it.

Also looking for some pretty sweet feats, and skill tricks.

Lastly, in another thread I asked about a guide telling you to get rid of some class feats you gained. Someone repsonded with

Yes, get rid of. They're alternate class features (ACF). Take one of the perks of a class, and swap it out for something else.

Can anyone elaborate?

[Eldariel]

The obvious option for multiclassing is Scout [Complete Adventurer]. Take the Swift Hunter [Complete Scoundrel]-feat that stacks your Scout- and Ranger-levels for Favored Enemy and Skirmish, and dip a level of Cloistered Cleric to gain access to "Travel Devotion"-feat [Complete Champion] through domain trade. You can also trade the Knowledge-domain for "Knowledge Devotion" [Complete Champion]. The mechanics for trading Domains for Devotions are explained in Complete Champion.

The crux of the matter

• Scout gains you an ability called Skirmish that adds a certain number of damage on all your attacks you make after moving at least 10' in a turn.
• Swift Hunter stacks Ranger-levels for this, getting you effective full Skirmish-progression. It also allows you to always deal Skirmish-damage to your Favored Enemies, even if they are normally immune to Critical Hits (and thus, precision damage).
• Cloistered Cleric gives you "Travel Devotion", which allows you to move as a swift action (you need to burn Turn Undead-uses for it, but Cleric gives you Turn Undead-pool so you can do that), meaning you still get to do a full attack and apply Skirmish to all the arrows.

This increases your damage somewhat. Since you have access to Cure Light Wounds, you can also be a decent healer, being able to use Wands of Cure Light Wounds. With the Cleric-level, you can also attempt to use Scrolls of Heal, which is a really good healing spell.


As for "getting rid of class features", some books contain Alternative Class Features, which basically replace some of the normal abilities with other abilities.

Like, Player's Handbook II has an ACF for Ranger that allows you to give up your Animal Companion, and gain the ability to make every opponent you hit considered "Flanked" until your next turn.

Complete Champion has one that replaces your Wild Empathy with ability to cast "Speaks with Plants" or something few times per day.

Player's Handbook II also has rules for "Retraining"; that is, giving up something you've already gotten for something else comparable (losing a class feature to gain the appropriate ACF, losing a feat for another feat you qualify for, etc.).

[Human Paragon 3]

Do exactly as the above poster says and you won't go far wrong. I strongly endorse that strategy.

[Nick_mi]

Wow, pretty clear cut and dry eh? Not as much variaty as with a barbarin.

Also, forgot to state it is an elf.

[Eldariel]

Wow, pretty clear cut and dry eh? Not as much variaty as with a barbarin.

Also, forgot to state it is an elf.

It's one option. It's good, simple and clean tho, and seems to fit for what you're going for. So I didn't really find a need to elaborate on anything needlessly complex.

[Nick_mi]

Feel free, I do like options and I do want to learn as much relevant stuff as I can.

[Eldariel]

Feel free, I do like options and I do want to learn as much relevant stuff as I can.

Read this, this and this, then.

[Keld Denar]

You could do something really fun with Ranger, Cyran Avenger (Eberron Campaign Setting? Maybe Dragonmarked), Suel Arcanamach (CArcane), Abjurant Champion (CMage), and a splash of Spellsword (CWarrior) or Sacred Exorcist (CDivine).

Sure, it uses things from multiple settings, but Cyran Avenger is pretty adaptable, and Suel Arcanamach even more so. Lots of Cha synergy, which is always delicious.

Build would go something like Ranger5/Cyran Avenger1/SuelArcanamach4/AbjChamp5/CyranAvenger+4/Spellsword1/X1.

With Versatile Spellcaster(Races of the Dragon), you'll be able to swap your low level Suel spell slots for Ranger spells, allowing you to keep with the Archer theme. If you do dip Sacred Exorcist in at some point, you could take Divine Might (CWarrior) to add Cha to damage with your bow shots a few times per day, giving even more reason to pump Cha. Suel casting would also allow you to Polymorph into an Arrow Demon (MMIV?), but that might be a bit outside of the realm of the power level you are looking for.

[Human Paragon 3]

Keld, with Cha +0, that build is probably not the best...

[TooManyBadgers]

Read this...

Just curious -- can we expect that guide to ever be finished?

I remember being curious whether you'd have any new tricks in the ToB/Incarnum/Psionics sections, but that was a long time ago.

[Rigor_Mortis]

Just as a note, you might also want to look into changing your race to Strongheart halfling if it's not too late already.

[Gavinfoxx]

And also, if you are DEADSET on elf, there are 20 varieties of Level Adjustment +0 elves out there... literally 20...

[Ruinix]

u want DPS with range attack, and use amunition weapon. lets stay on that, then .. :

2 mistic ranger / 1 cloister cleric / 2 elf paladin / X scout / from here u can go for some PrC for improve some kind of rol for ur char or stay with scout wich give more damage in the end.

for weapons and tactics.

exotic weapon. hand crossbow.
take the line of 2 wealpon fighting and use 2 hand crosbows.
crossbow sniper. extend the distance for make precision damage to 60'
rapid reload.
precise shot.
swap knowlege domain for knowlege devotion feat (for the cloisted cleric dip)


for the weapons. 2 hand crossbows and just make them +1 magic for add some enhancements later when u can afford.

+3 spliting is u enhancement target. double ur attack.
+2 force, make ur attacks force attack and bypass all DR and some annoying defensive spells against arrows, also hit incorporeals target without the 50% miss chance ^^


forget the animal companion from ranger, is to weak and lame. buy a beast alredy tamed with warbeast AND magebread templates.

[Nick_mi]

And also, if you are DEADSET on elf, there are 20 varieties of Level Adjustment +0 elves out there... literally 20...

I don't even know what that means, and it's probably to late to switch, but do elaborate.

Also, I picked owl because basically during every fight I have it move silently+20 roll, and then I have it do listen(+17) and spot(+9) checks every turn. It has so far proven very helpfull as we notice any and all ambush attempts, as well as anything in the area that might help us.

[Keld Denar]

The elf stats presented in the PHB are the basic "high elf". The Monster Maneual has a couple other flavors, namedly grey elf and wood elf, which have similar yet slightly different stats. PGtF adds in a few more, and IIRC, so does the ECS. There are in fact so many different breeds of elves that with a bit of looking, you can find an elf with nearly every combination of stat boosts which allows you to tailor them to the exact build you want.

To rip off Apple's slogan: The's an elf for that.

[Nick_mi]

The elf stats presented in the PHB are the basic "high elf". The Monster Maneual has a couple other flavors, namedly grey elf and wood elf, which have similar yet slightly different stats. PGtF adds in a few more, and IIRC, so does the ECS. There are in fact so many different breeds of elves that with a bit of looking, you can find an elf with nearly every combination of stat boosts which allows you to tailor them to the exact build you want.

To rip off Apple's slogan: The's an elf for that.

Any idea on where a list would be that is not searching twenty million books.

Also, I jhust checked out players guide handebook 2 and looking at things I could swap. In a guide for a barbarian it said swap out trap sense, and whjat not, but the only thing I found was swapping out rage for something else.

Also what is this

"Magic Weapon Special Abilities:
Splitting (+3 price) [CoR Pg. 42]
Ok, so this is the best ability in the books. By far. It requires Precise Shot (just one extra reason to get it) and is a +3 ability, but by gods does it kick ass. Every attack you do hits. Twice. In effect, this doubles your damage output; normal +3 would be about ~+10 damage, this can be around +30 damage easily. Also, getting two attack rolls is incredibly useful for having higher hit percentage and goes perfectly with Woodland Archer [RoTW Pg. 154]."


That someething I can enchant on my bow, and if so what's the normal going price?

[Eldariel]

Just curious -- can we expect that guide to ever be finished?

I remember being curious whether you'd have any new tricks in the ToB/Incarnum/Psionics sections, but that was a long time ago.

...hopefully, yeah. I've been feeling really unmotivated for god-knows-how-long but on the other hand, I've decided that it will be finished anyways so I'll try and get it done.

[Keld Denar]

As I said, the Monster Manual has the 3 main flavors. If you are curious, just state what stats you'd like bonuses to, and which you wouldn't mind penalties, and I'm sure someone around here can find an elf to fit.

Splitting is pretty much universally regarded as the strongest weapon enhancement for bows ever printed. Its REALLY good, in that it doubles your attacks (and thus damage). Its a +3 equivalent, which means you add that to whatever your weapon's enhancement bonus is and use that total to calculate the price. Since a weapon needs at least a +1 enhancement bonus, the cheapest you could get a +1 Splitting bow would be thus:

+1(base) + 3(splitting) = 4. The weapon formula is 2000 * (X)^2, where X is the total effective enchancement bonus. In your case, is 4. So 2000g * (4)^2 is 32,000g, plus the base cost of the bow.

[Nick_mi]

So I'm looking at these classes, and I'm not finding many of them, and from what I can see from scout, I don't know if I want to multiclass into that as I lose a BA right away at level 1, and I have to be constantly moving which means I lose rapid shot. Someone try to convince me otherwise?

Also, still haven't found a suitable prestige class. :(

[Diarmuid]

So, the cleric dip with the travel devotion mentioned upthread allows you to move as a swift action, meaning you can still take a full attach action and still gain the benefits of the additional skirmish damage.

I realise you seem pretty new to the game, but if you're not even going to read the responses you're getting people are going to stop responding.

Also, for any classes you cant find, a simple Google search will almost always tell you what book they came from.

[Human Paragon 3]

Officially, you don't even need to dip cleric to get that ability (though it's better if you do). You can just take the feat Travel Devotion. The "devotion" feats are in Complete Champion.

[Nick_mi]

No hard magic casters in this campaign, so cleric is out of the question unfortinately.

[Harris the Ford]

Also a 1 level dip into Occult Slayer (CW) will get you and extra 1d6 versus anything that can cast spells or use SLAs. Another level in it and you deal double damage on any attack made to disrupt spellcasting. It has some flavor regarding disapproving of spellcasting but you might be able to talk with your dm and change it to just arcane or something.

[Person_Man]

List of all Alternate Class Features.


I'm of the opinion that archer Rangers are garbage. Archery is a huge feat sink, and the DPS is a joke compared to the DPS offered by spells or melee combat. If there is any way you can retrain, then you should retrain to be a Wildshape Ranger instead. At least then you could be useful.

Having said that, here are my suggestions:

Arcane Hunter: Lose one normal Favored Enemy, gain Favored Enemy Arcanist, which applies against everything that casts arcane spells and spell-like abilities. Complete Mage pg 32.

Stalker of Kharash Prestige Class: 2 levels gets you Favored Enemy Evil, which applies against all Evil enemies. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 75.

Wise to Your Ways feat: Allows you to apply your Favored Enemy bonus to Saves against Supernatural, Spell-like, and Extraordinary abilities from that Favored Enemy. Very useful when applied to Favored Enemy. Ghostwalk (3.0 material).

Sword of the Arcane Order feat: Allows Rangers to use Wizard spells. Spells like Alter Self, which is ridiculously easy to abuse. You turn into something with a high Dex bonus and a fly or burrow speed, and your animal companion turns into a dinosaur (or any other animal really. You picked an owl? Seriously?). Champions of Valor.

Wands and Staves: The real reason to take Sword of the Arcane Order. Remember, you can use spell trigger items for everything on your spell list, even if you can't cast it yet. Although even if you don't there are some real gems on the Ranger spell list in the various splat books. You'll probably also want to buy some Wand Chambers and Bracers (Dungeonscape, IIRC) so that you can use your wands without having to spend an action to draw them.

Urban Companion: Superior to your normal companion, in that it shares your BAB and has 3/4 your hit points. Web. Augment it with Alter Self or take the Improved Familiar feat.

Swift Hunter: Well outlined by Eldariel. Note that Swift Hunter also makes your Favored Enemies subject to Skirmish even if they're otherwise immune, which is a nice perk when combined with Favored Enemy Evil.

Kensai: An alternative to the Stalker of Kharash route. By ECL 10, you'll have the best magic weapon in your group. Use the savings to buy magic ammo. Remember that the properties from magic ammo and arrows stack. So a +1 Flaming bow firing +1 Frost arrows deals +1 Flaming Frost damage (the enhancement bonus doesn't stack, but everything else does). Complete Warrior.

Anything with a burrow speed or Earth Glide: With the Shot on the Run and Manyshot feats, you can move, fire, and move. If you're moving through walls or from the ground, then enemies won't have line of sight, and can't target you unless they ready an action to do so. This can be gained via Alter Self or various other spells, and a few grafts and magic items.

[Greenish]

You could do something really fun with Ranger, Cyran Avenger (Eberron Campaign Setting? Maybe Dragonmarked)

Cyran Avenger is from Five Nations.

[Keld Denar]

Bah, all those Eberron books look the same to me...

[DaragosKitsune]

Or, if you are determined to have an animal companion, I'm pretty sure there is a spell-less ranger variant somewhere that gives you the druids Animal Companion progression.

Edit: It isn't the CW one. I can't remember where it is though.

[Gavinfoxx]

There's an elf for that!

http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...st_Version_2.0

Mostly, that thread is the "'There is a Race that you can take without any particular weird rules to keep you from doing so' for that!

And if you want to take an animal companion, take one which is powerful for combat.

...But seriously, for ranger? The Wild Shape Ranger is where it's at, combined with the Mystic Ranger!

Consider the PHBII retraining rules, for example!