Bard <3.5>

[Tokuhara]

From basic reading of Bard, it seems actually pretty weak. Sure, it can cast spells, and sure, it has lots of options (being essentially the first Jack of All Trades), but I must not see the diamond under the crap casting and very situational abilities.

Am I missing what the real advantage to Bard is, or am I close?

[Forever Curious]

From basic reading of Bard, it seems actually pretty weak. Sure, it can cast spells, and sure, it has lots of options (being essentially the first Jack of All Trades), but I must not see the diamond under the crap casting and very situational abilities.

Am I missing what the real advantage to Bard is, or am I close?

Core Bard is pretty "meh" all things considered. However, there are rather awesome spells in Spell Compendium, and crazy awesome Inspire Courage feats in other source books (Dragonfire Inspiration being one of them).

In my opinion, they're solid Tier 3 using other material, but Tier 4 or lower straight core.

[gorfnab]

With the right splat books bards can become extremely powerful, especially Diplomacy focused bards. The Bard's Handbook has some info on how to create a decent powered bard.

[Daelen]

I believe that as written, straight from the PHB, the Bard is the quintessential 5th man. However, with some basic optimization it becomes an essential member of the party. Snowflake Wardance out of Frostburn gives you some good combat utility based off your best stat (Cha), Dragonfire Inspiration out of Races of the Dragon, or Dragon Magic... I can't remember which and am AFB... adds damage to all of your party's weapon-based damage dealers. It is the best at Diplomancy as far as I've seen. Anything more than that and someone else will have to step in, that is as far as I know.

[mcl01]

He's a force multiplier. When you can easily add +8 to all allies' melee attacks at once (BEFORE cheese), you really increase your team's ability to kill things a LOT more quickly (greatly increasing survivabiltiy). Stacking with that is the ability to grant +8d6 energy damage to all their attacks as well. Add in the cheesy Words of Creation, and thats +16 to attack/damage, +16d6 energy damage to all teammates. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Spellcasting is always nice. 6th isn't amazing, but you do get some nice gems. Improvisation, Charm Person, Glibness, Silence, and the Image line of spells just to name a few. Combine with Sublime Chord to get pseudo-sorceror casting.

Whatever he lacks in spellcasting, he can make up in Use Magic Device.

Also even practical social-skill optimization yields generally crazy results.

In core, you're right. Bard is pretty well balanced and isn't absolutely crazy. Once you start adding other sources, however, the jack of all trades gets better at pretty much everything, and gets a few nice tricks of his own.

[Tokuhara]

I did have a good question, mostly for parties without a full-time healer:

I realise that Divine Bard sucks badly, but could the feat Dynamic Priest help, by making their casting CHA again?

[Keld Denar]

Yea, google "optimized Inspire Courage" then look up the Sublime Chord PrC in Complete Arcane. IC is incredibly easy to boost to rediculous levels that increases that effective killing power of your party to a pretty massive degree, and Sublime Chord turns you into a Sorcerer 1 level behind from levels 11 to 20 when you can't just power through things with IC anymore.

[Greenish]

I did have a good question, mostly for parties without a full-time healer:

I realise that Divine Bard sucks badly, but could the feat Dynamic Priest help, by making their casting CHA again?

Bards have UMD and have the basic Cure line of spells on their list. Given how situational the spells Divine Bard has over normal bards (remove disease, restoration, raise dead), you probably wouldn't want to waste spells known for them anyway.

[TooManyBadgers]

Without digging through splatbooks, the Bard pales to the Beguiler in pretty much every respect.

It's a decent skillmonkey and illusions/enchantments are always useful in the hands of a clever player. Also, Fascinate has a pretty ridiculous save DC and Suggestion can be spammed against anything that fails it [it's not useful in combat, but it's not hard for that single ability to gut a campaign].

Its built-in buffing is pretty weak, but the Bard spell list has gems like Glitterdust and Color Spray (even though they're a level late) and the skill list/points per level are both pretty brilliant.

So in a Core-only game, it's okay. It occupies a realm of always-useful, but rarely stellar classes alongside the Ranger, Barbarian and Rogue.

Outside core, it's given a lot of room to expand. Melodic casting in Complete Mage lets it simultaneously sing and cast spells. Bardic Knack in the PHB2 gives it enormous quantities of virtual skill points. Crystal Echoblades (MIC) and Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion) provide decent damage sources. Doomspeach and Haunting Melody and Gnome sub levels give it some scary debuffs. Sublime Chord does the silly and horrible things that Sublime Chord does. And Inspire Courage can get silly pretty easily once you start digging through splats.

So it's not a terrible class and it's not a great class, but it has a lot of room for expansion when you venture into supplementary rules.

edit:
Does dynamic priest work with Intelligence? Because that would go a lot further with a Bard, IMO - Words of Creation has hefty stat requirements and there are too many goodies on the Bard skill list to ignore.

[Human Paragon 3]

In my opinion Factotum makes a much stronger 5th wheel.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yeah, just check out this Red Hand of Doom play by post I'm running. The 5th level bard, with Song of the Heart, a Badge of Valor, and Inspirational Boost, is pretty much making the entire party an unstoppable juggernaut of death.

[El Dorado]

I ran a bard from 3rd to 13th. Core would've been okay but thankfully our DM allowed most other sources. Most of my spells were core though. Grease, haste, dispel magic, displacement, hold monster, cure critical wounds, freedom of movement.

Our group was melee heavy so I tended to hold back and do the Inspire courage + inspirational boost + song of the heart + haste thing and then use spells as needed unless things went south (my group hated for me to jump into melee early because if I dropped, they'd lose their bonuses ).

Also, Diplomacy, Use Magic Device, and Tumble are your friends.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If you're a bard, you'll want to try to focus on something, be it casting, attacking, or Inspire Courage. Core only, you really don't have anything for the first or the last, so you're not left with much.

Splat books open up things like Sublime Chord and whatever the feat from Complete Mage is that lets you cast and sing at the same time is for casting, the numerous things mentioned for cranking Inspire Courage up to the point where the entire party basically turns into rogues for the purposes of rolling d6s, and Song of the White Raven for meleeing joy.

[ZeroGear]

If built properly, bards can be very powerful in their own right:

Someone mentioned the Sublime Chord, and thats a good choice if you want to go full caster since the Chord can learn wizard/sorcerer spells, and can boost them with his music.

For a slightly more militant bard, the Warchanter is decent. While it may not be up to figher standards, it still packs quite a punch with it's Inspire Recklessness ability. If you use a savage bard as a starter class, it gets more eficient with the use of Boar's strengh to boost his strength even higher.

The Virtuoso gives the bard a greater boost in terms of his ability to manipulate people, and can work his way around a lot of hazards.

I know that few like the Falcion Lyrisist, but it's got a good deal: lots of spells that can support the party and manipulate the foes, an animal companion to defend him, and the nice ability to get rid of traps from the rogue entry requirement.

For those who like to play emo characters, the Dirgsinger has a few good abilities if you put him in a campain with lots of undead.

The Devine Orator is a good choice for religious individuals, and works well with other members of the faith.

My favorite prestige class, the Seeker of the Song, may give up his spellcasting, but that does not really matter if you can blast foes with energy a number of times per day equal to your level (or more with extra music) while protecting them from the same energy type. And the Combine Songs ability can also become very useful if you combine the right songs: combining the songs of fire and frost protection allows you to keep safe from the reddragons breath while blasting it with cold. Combine Inspire Courage and Inspire Heroics, and you can go almost toe-to-toe with the fighter, especially if you add in the boosts you get while performing a song.

Song of the Heart can boost your abilities further than before, and Extra Music lets you do it more often. Dragonfire inspiration lets you deal extra fire damage if you sacrifice the Inspire Courage boost, and there are feats that evel let you affect constructs, plants and undead. Battle dancer lets you hurt others in battle, Chant of the Long Road can keep the party moving, and Ironskin Chant (I think) keeps you safe from damage.

Bards can also be the ultimate jack of all trades, literally. The Jackof all Trades feat, when combined with Bardic Knack from PHBII, gives you access to all slills! Just Max out the ones you really need and get going.

Also, the core bard has some decent tricks to work with: several Cure Wounds, Remove Disease, Charm, Disguise Self, and Image spells. Humming to yourself while bluffing others is a good trick, as is the use of the Fascinate and Suggestion abilities. Cat's grace makes you harder to hit, and Foxe's Cuning makes your spells and abilities harder to resist. Mage Hand grabs those keys you need to unlock the cell door, and Shape Sound can help avoid comflict whith keen-eared foes.

Even when it comes to non-standard spells, bards have some decent options:
Masters Touch can really put the hurt on others without the pesky -4 nonproficientcy penalty, while Alter Weapon changes the normal whip or dagger you are carrying into a wicked greatsword. Inspiration Boost buffs up your Inspire Courage, and Phantom Steed gices you a mount when you need it. Peacebond and Call weapon can help take out an enemy group easier, and Glibness is the ultimate bluff tool.

So you see, the Bard is not really useless, just a little underused.