Multiclassing

[zephiros]

Alright, I figured it was about time to abandon the other thread about class suggestions, it brought in such a huge number of great classes already for me to think about, and thanks again to everyone who contributed.

As I mentioned in that thread, I've never actually played a multiclassed character before, whether that's because I've never progressed to a high enough level to feel it was necessary, or whether I just prefer single class advancement from the little that I know, I'm not sure.

I can say that I would prefer to multiclass into one of those prestige classes that allows you to continue advancing in the base class at the same time.

That being said if anyone had some time to explain the basic rules behind multiclassing that'd be great. I recall that there was something about only being able to multiclass from or to (can't remember which) your race's favoured class and taking some kind of penalty if you don't. Personally I think that's a bit weird and I would imagine it gets house-ruled out a lot but again I don't really understand it that well.

The main purpose of this thread though is just for people to throw out some ideas on which kinds of classes work well together, because really my ideas in that respect are extremely limited by my knowledge of the subject.

If anyone wants to throw in their favourite PrCs or specific builds of any number of different classes that they feel works really well, then by all means please do. I would ask that if you mention a class that might be considered more obscure, you include the book with it.

Anyway...that's about all, thanks in advance for any suggestions you might have.

[WarKitty]

You take multiclass experience penalties if you have two or more base classes that are more than one level apart. Any levels in your favored class do not count towards this. Prestige classes also do not incur multiclass penalties.

[zephiros]

Ah, thank you, that answers that part, so just the recommendations I guess.

[TooManyBadgers]

Ah, thank you, that answers that part, so just the recommendations I guess.

I think you're going to have to narrow this down to a specific concept.
"What are your favorite multiclassed or prestige classed builds?" isn't going to really tell you anything meaningful.

Eg. I like Fighter (ACFed to the point of unrecognizability) 5/Scarlet Corsair for a competent non-ToB finesse fighter with options, I like Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer for a sneaky spellcaster or DPS character, I like Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 1/Ordained Champion 3/Prestige Paladin 3/Knight of the Raven for a powerful holy warrior-type character, I like Beguiler 1/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 6 for an effective Shadowcaster character, I like Warblade 6/Fighter 2/Crusader 2/Eternal Blade 10 for a high-Int sword-and-board character, I like Bard 5/Dirgesinger 5/Sublime Chord for a necromantic Bard character... I can go on.

[FMArthur]

There are virtually limitless options. I've seen perfectly viable builds that spend no more than 2 levels in any one class. I'm not sure you quite understand the scope of your request...

Here is a list of Base Classes from WotC, which for some reason includes substitution levels. It doesn't include variants and alternate class features, which are quite numerous and located in a wide variety of other sources.
Here is a list of Prestige Classes.
Now feats. Watch your scrollbar shrink as the page loads...

You can do anything, anything, and usually several different ways. "Interesting builds" would hit the thread's page limit. You need to narrow it down a bit or we don't really know where to go with this.

[zephiros]

My apologies, I figured it would just be neat to gather any ideas people happened to have, but I realize that I really should have been a little less broad in the asking. That being said....

1. I love caster classes, and I realize this is really broad, but any base class that casts is fine by me. Wizard/Sorcerer is a personal favourite, but Druid, Cleric, Dread Necro, Warlock, anything really that has spells (or some equivalent power) If I had to be specific though, I really prefer raw arcane power, having lots of spells known and spells per day, really a power caster.

2. I like tricky / sneaky characters, Beguiler / Bard / Rogue. I've read the Master of Masks class and like that, and cover all classes like Factotum / Chameleon are good as well.

3. I'm playing a Swordsage atm, and am enjoying that. Things like swordsage / warblade / duskblade are interesting as well (someone else mentioned a word for it...gish I think?)

[Urpriest]

A gish is a character that does both spellcasting and melee (or ranged) combat. Generally you do that with prestige classes like Eldritch Knight, Abjurant Champion, and Swiftblade. Duskblades are a good way to do the archetype without prestige classes.

[TooManyBadgers]

You might get a kick out of the Unseen Seer prestige class in Complete Mage.
It's a really good class for a magic-using skillmonkey, with 6+Int skills and +4d6 sneak attack or skirmish over 10 levels.

It has a quirky casting system that boosts CL with divination spells, but drops CL with other spells. If you take the Practiced Spellcaster feat in complete arcane and complete divine, you don't have to suffer the downsides.

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer is a pretty fantastic skillful character, spellcaster and sneak attacker.




You might also have a good time with Cloistered Cleric and Shadowbane Stalker from Complete Adventurer. Cloistered Cleric is a Cleric variant with 6+Int skills; Shadowbane Stalker is a Cleric/Rogue multiclass PrC, which [slowly] increases Sneak attack, gives good skills and has a couple class abilities a stealthy character might find useful. (Or, if you can use the Sacred Outlaw feat from Dragon Magazine, you could go Rogue/Cloistered Cleric for a strong skillful caster with full sneak attack.)



Fochlucan Lyrist (from Complete Adventurer) builds can also be fun. Not because they're particularly powerful -- they're usually not [for spellcasters, anyway] -- but because they can be so crazy. They typically take skillmonkey/gish sorts of roles in parties.

[zephiros]

Thanks for the recommendations, they sound interesting.

[Boren]

I think you're going to have to narrow this down to a specific concept.
"What are your favorite multiclassed or prestige classed builds?" isn't going to really tell you anything meaningful.

Eg. I like Fighter (ACFed to the point of unrecognizability) 5/Scarlet Corsair for a competent non-ToB finesse fighter with options, I like Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer for a sneaky spellcaster or DPS character, I like Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 1/Ordained Champion 3/Prestige Paladin 3/Knight of the Raven for a powerful holy warrior-type character, I like Beguiler 1/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 6 for an effective Shadowcaster character, I like Warblade 6/Fighter 2/Crusader 2/Eternal Blade 10 for a high-Int sword-and-board character, I like Bard 5/Dirgesinger 5/Sublime Chord for a necromantic Bard character... I can go on.

I was planing to do exactly that but I changed my mind to Bard 5/ Mindbender 6/ Sublime Chord it's a really good build and gives you good spells and several nasty tricks and 2 permanent pets to protect you

[Keld Denar]

Bard 5/ Mindbender 6/ Sublime Chord

I notice you have a number of Mindbender levels there that exceeds 1...you should look into getting this fixed.

Also, Sublime Chord casting is awesome. In no way should you ever consider doing anything to lose any levels of it. Always take the 1st level at 11, and only take levels in fullcaster PrCs or Sublime Chord itself until you hit 20. Any less is wasted potential.

EDIT:
For Gishes, I'm really fond of Suel Arcanamach builds and the Sorcadin build. There is a whole handbook on Suel Arcanamachs, but the Sorcadin tends to be Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion5/SacredExorcist8, although not always in that exact order (AbjChamp and SacEx levels can be interchanged a bit to get Turn Undead a bit sooner).

[Boren]

I notice you have a number of Mindbender levels there that exceeds 1...you should look into getting this fixed.

Also, Sublime Chord casting is awesome. In no way should you ever consider doing anything to lose any levels of it. Always take the 1st level at 11, and only take levels in fullcaster PrCs or Sublime Chord itself until you hit 20. Any less is wasted potential.

lol mindbender is a lot better then ppl seem to think it is. Its biggest power is that its a toolbox of turning you enemies into assets. I for one don't think I'll ever do I mind control specialist again its just too easy to OP

[Glimbur]

lol mindbender is a lot better then ppl seem to think it is. Its biggest power is that its a toolbox of turning you enemies into assets. I for one don't think I'll ever do I mind control specialist again its just too easy to OP

The problem with mindbender is you could instead take wizard and get mind control spells and also full casting. It is not a good trade-off.

[Boren]

The problem with mindbender is you could instead take wizard and get mind control spells and also full casting. It is not a good trade-off.

Unless your starting as a bard and wouldn't get full casting anyway and you make up the lost ground with sublime cord and you end up getting full spell-casting anyway

But at any rate we be starting to get off topic so lets get back to helpful suggestions for the owner of this thread shall we?

[zephiros]

Ah, that's alright. Discussion still teaches me plenty, but if anyone else does have any stealthy / pure arcane / gish multiclassing options that'd be nice.

[Tyndmyr]

Unless your starting as a bard and wouldn't get full casting anyway and you make up the lost ground with sublime cord and you end up getting full spell-casting anyway

But at any rate we be starting to get off topic so lets get back to helpful suggestions for the owner of this thread shall we?

*shrug* You get the best part of mindbender at level 1, which progresses casting. So, you started sublime chord a level late, have lower straight bard casting(which you get in addition to sublime chord, for a loss of 1 level 3 spell per day, and your bonus level 4 bard spells per day. In addition, you are 1 caster level behind on your sublime chord progression. You also lost suggestion, inspire confidence, and inspire greatness. This is compared against straight bard until you qualify for sublime chord...using other PrCs would no doubt be even better.

So, he is right. Stick with one level of mindbender. Half caster level progression is never worth it pre-epic.

For the OP, if you like spont casting, and lots of it, that's a good build. Also, see the killer gnome build. Technically, it's a prepared spell build, in that it starts out with wizard, but it soon is able to cast anything from entire schools of magic, spontaniously. At over 100% reality, so disbelieving the illusion actually results in more damage. It's awesomeness in a very small package.

[Dusk Eclipse]

For a sneaky caster build I am fond on rogue 1/Specialist Conjurer 4/Unseen Seer(Complete Mag) 10/ Arcane Trickster* or Spellwarp Sniper (Complete Scoundrel)

*IIRC Better Sneak attack progression but horrible prerequisites

A sneaky pseudo gish might be something like Rogue 5/Assassin 10/ Rogue +5 or whatever else.

Edit: Just remembered about a class in Complete Adventurer, daggerspell caster? ...... I don't remember the name but it is a class that specializes in TWF with daggers and delivering spells through them... it is a companion class to the daggerspell shaper. I am going to check my books and come with neame in a moment

Edit the 2nd: Found it, it is named Daggerspell Mage now I feel bad for not remembering such an easy name

[Urpriest]

@ zephiros: For future reference, people generally don't refer to taking prestige classes as multiclassing. Generally when people use the term multiclassing it refers to taking multiple base classes. Just FYI.

[zephiros]

Thanks for the additional suggestions everyone.

@ Urpriest, I'm looking for either or, and I didn't know of an umbrella term that concerned both multiclassing or taking PrCs so I said multiclass. I realize though that most fully fleshed out builds will have a Prestige Class somewhere. Unless it's singleclass.