Is Half-Ogre worth +2 LA?

[Xephalo]

Is the Half-Ogre from Races of Destiny worth the +2 LA for an unarmed beat-stick (not a monk) character both with and without LA buyoff? I realize the Playground has a fairly negative opinion of LA, but I'm not sure if the bonuses of the Half-Ogre outweigh the 2 lost levels.

Thanks very much.

[Morph Bark]

With LA buyoff? Oh yes.

Without it? Depends. If you can take War Hulk, then it's prolly still worth it.

[PId6]

Overall, it's probably not worth the LA, but it depends on the character. It's one of the few LA +2's that are actually worth considering, since Large size is awesome, but it's still probably an overall nerf compared to 2 levels in a decent class (like ToB classes, PsyWar, anything T3 really), or one level and an LA +1 race like Goliath or Half-Giant. The Large size is best used with trippers or grapplers though, rather than unarmed combatants, but that depends on the character again (if you can get a gazillian attacks and boost their size through Chained Greater Mighty Wallop, then it's worth it).

[Ilmryn]

Erm...I don't know what the Races of Destiny Half-Ogre looks like, but the Half ogre from Savage Species is definitely worth it. It is +1 LA, and you get large size and +6 str.

The funny thing is that Half-Ogres are actually bigger than Half-giants, who only have powerful build...

[PId6]

Erm...I don't know what the Races of Destiny Half-Ogre looks like, but the Half ogre from Savage Species is definitely worth it. It is +1 LA, and you get large size and +6 str.

The RoD one is pretty much the same, but LA +2.

[grarrrg]

Is the Half-Ogre from Races of Destiny worth the +2 LA

I thought full-Ogres were +2LA?
Differance in racial HD??

[Admiral Squish]

I thought full-Ogres were +2LA?
Differance in racial HD??

Full ogres are LA +1 with 4 RHD.

[Thurbane]

My 2 cents? 1/2 ogres are worth +2 LA, even without buyoff (and definitely if buyoff is available).

LA hurts casters a lot more than melee types...and with their STR & CON bonuses, natural armor, and most importantly size (with reach and all the other goodies that come with it), the 2 levels of a melee class they lack is somewhat offset.

I wouldn't take a 1/2 Ogre for any type of caster, unless buyoff was on the table; and even then, I can think of a lot of races better suited.

Full ogres are LA +1 with 4 RHD.

Correction - full Ogres are LA +2, with 4 racial HD.

OGRES AS CHARACTERS
Ogre characters possess the following racial traits.

+10 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, –4 Charisma.

Large size. –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.

Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.

An ogre’s base land speed is 40 feet.

Darkvision out to 60 feet.

Racial Hit Dice: An ogre begins with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.

Racial Skills: An ogre’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 7 x (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Climb, Listen, and Spot.

Racial Feats: An ogre’s giant levels give it two feats.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An ogre is automatically proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields.

+5 natural armor bonus.

Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Orc, Goblin, Terran.

Favored Class: Barbarian.

Level adjustment +2.

[Halae]

Half-Ogres, Warforged, and Half-orcs are the characters I play most frequently, and I will tell you right now - Half-ogres are worth it. to rate them on a scale of 1-10 about how effective they are in melee roles, in my experience...

Warforged come in at about 5, almost 7 if you focus in defence. The damage reduction, combined with natural plating that you can enchant is very useful, especially at early levels when getting such things is difficult. Plus, with feats you can turn him into a natural attack slammer that bypasses the damage reduction of fiends and constructs, and there is nothing more satisfying than the DM telling you that you just punched the demon lord in the the face.

Half-orcs get about rank 6. That strength bonus can mean lots of bonuses in the long run, but being only medium size means you won't be making as much use as you could out of it. That, and the half-orcs's prestige classes and feats are generally centered around him being intimidating to humans which, unless you're focusing on it, can mean you won't be taking many things that help you out.

Half-Ogres are one of my favorites for a reason, coming in at an 8.5 in effectiveness. While being a giant means you won't be hitting dwarves as often (Which is often a negligible drawback) and that +2 LA hurts, you come out stronger in the long run. sure, you may have a third the hit points of your comrades when you start out, but if you rely on those with more defense readiness than you you shouldn't feel overwhelmed. Eventually, especially if you use buyoff, you hardly notice the difference, and that Con bonus further helps to close the gap. Attacks of opportunity that almost all medium and smaller creatures will provoke to enter melee (and that can be a sizeable portion of your foes) combined with a +6 strength means you are not only the party pack mule, you can make damn good use of it. On top of that, large size opens up warhulk and hulking hurler, a pair of the most broken PrCs in the game, especially when used together. In my honest opinion, Half-Ogre is one of the single best races out there, Level adjustment be damned.

[Runestar]

For classes such as fighters or barbs with few class features (or features which improve at a fairly slow rate), the only key benefit you get is a higher bab, which can be readily substituted with greater str (which translates to better to-hit/damage anyways).

I would actually highlight it as a decent example of what a LA+2 template ought to grant.

[hamishspence]

If you think it's not worth it, the LA +1 version in Dragon Magazine is 3.5, and when added to a human, is probably a lot better- since you still get the human bonus feat and skills.

But that might cross the line all the way into cheesy.

[Person_Man]

IMO, it is only worth it if you need permanent Large size to enter Warhulk or Hulking Hurler (or both) and abuse Knockback. If not, then no. Getting a size bump is just crazy easy via so many other means - Enlarge Person, Expansion, Alter Self, Polymorph, Wildshpe, etc, ad nauseam.

[dsmiles]

I've played a half-ogre, and my opinion is that they're worth it even without LA buyoff. Large size opens up a lot of cool feats, and a fighter with natural reach is clearly superior to a fighter with a reach weapon. STR and CON bonuses = more melee goodness.

[Halae]

I've played a half-ogre, and my opinion is that they're worth it even without LA buyoff. Large size opens up a lot of cool feats, and a fighter with natural reach is clearly superior to a fighter with a reach weapon. STR and CON bonuses = more melee goodness.

another good one is to not only have natural reach, but to have a reach weapon too. since you threaten two spaces that the enemy has to passs through, you can get two attacks of opportunity on the same guy! And the short haft feat can make it so that, as a swift action, you can then start fighting as if it wasn't a reach weapon!

[Keld Denar]

since you threaten two spaces that the enemy has to passs through, you can get two attacks of opportunity on the same guy!

This is false. Movement is considered one opportunity, regardless of how far or through how many spaces the mover has moved through. This is explicitly called out in the rules for AoOs and for Combat Reflexes.

The only issue with adding size to AoO builds is that Combat Reflexes is based on Dex, and as size goes up, Dex goes down. That relies on a heavy investment in initial dex, supplimented with items and/or magic, to keep from losing the benefits of Combat Reflexes due to size.

[Halae]

This is false. Movement is considered one opportunity, regardless of how far or through how many spaces the mover has moved through. This is explicitly called out in the rules for AoOs and for Combat Reflexes.

The only issue with adding size to AoO builds is that Combat Reflexes is based on Dex, and as size goes up, Dex goes down. That relies on a heavy investment in initial dex, supplimented with items and/or magic, to keep from losing the benefits of Combat Reflexes due to size.

While true, I believe the opportunity to take that AoO outweighs the fact that you have to work at it