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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Greetings playground!

    I've just started a new campaign, and while it's fairly roleplay-centric and non-lethal, I think it'd be a good idea to have a backup character in case my drow bard bites the dust or somesuch. The party isn't particularly good at optimisation (two are average at it, and one terrible, but she gets help and everyones having fun.), and that coupled with the aforementioned 'friendliness' of the campaign got me thinking that it would be the perfect time to break out an odd, fun and unoptimised race/class combo. I have settled on either an orc or half-orc wizard.

    I know a half-orc sorceror would get me more bang for my buck, but I'm really set on my concept. I do, however, still want good ol' Khrog to be as effective as his orcish self can be, but I'm not too familiar with wizards and they do seem a tad on the difficult side to optimise, so I come to beseech all you great playgrounders for help!

    I'd prefer for Khrog to remain a full blood orc, but if the half-orc racials add anything ZOMG-awesome I'm willing to change. I love the look of the illusionist wizard, but charisma shall be Khrog's dump stat so that just won't fly, which leaves me looking at the control wizard (Which I've heard is the best of the bunch) and the summoner wizard (which I've heard absolutely nothing about. Anyone got any info on how it performs?).

    The party's started on level 1, but I don't expect to die any time immediately so if I could get a build up to level 6 and/or any advice you may have I would be ever so grateful.
    If I had a +1 Pan of Frying I could totally do that!

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Take Thunderwave.

    ...that's all I know about playing an optimal 4e wizard. =/
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    I've always wanted to play a Orc Wizard with abnormally high Int for a Orc. Glad to see some else trying the crazy mix. I unfortunately know little on 4e and build more for character concept then optimizing. Sorry I'm no help.
    Avatar by Qwernt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkpuppy
    All those who dislike philosophy or sociology, kindly [rest of post lost due to semantic corruption. Whether this corruption is purely textual in nature, or more implicative, also depends upon your point of view. ]

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakefall View Post
    The party's started on level 1, but I don't expect to die any time immediately so if I could get a build up to level 6 and/or any advice you may have I would be ever so grateful.
    An orc wizard is fully playable. Half-orcs do have a better racial power, as well as better feat support, but nothing that stands out as critical. A well-played wizard will make strategy a nightmare for the DM, regardless of race.

    General tips,
    (1) Start with 18 int, because you'll use this score more than all the other five combined. If playing a smart orc bothers you, wizard is not the class for you.
    (2) Take enlarge spell and focus on the biggest area effects you can find.
    (3) The best wizard spells are debuffs, forced movement, and other afflictions; avoid spells that only do damage.
    (4) Statistically, giving enemies -2 to hit is not a good debuff, and neither is getting +2 to your AC a good feat, and neither is slowing people.
    (5) Familiars are fun.
    (6) Summoning is generally underwhelming until paragon level (or level 9, to be exact).
    (7) Orb of Imposition is also underwhelming until paragon level. Staff, Wand, and Tome of Readiness are all solid.
    (8) Almost all of your powers will also hit allies in the area, but with decent party tactics this is only rarely a problem.
    (9) As soon as you can afford them, carry a bagfull of utility orbs and staffs, and get some way of drawing them as a free action.
    (10) Thunderwave is one of the best at-wills in the game, and combos well with the many zone effects wizards get.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    An orc wizard is fully playable. Half-orcs do have a better racial power, as well as better feat support, but nothing that stands out as critical. A well-played wizard will make strategy a nightmare for the DM, regardless of race.

    General tips,
    (1) Start with 18 int, because you'll use this score more than all the other five combined. If playing a smart orc bothers you, wizard is not the class for you.
    (2) Take enlarge spell and focus on the biggest area effects you can find.
    (3) The best wizard spells are debuffs, forced movement, and other afflictions; avoid spells that only do damage.
    (4) Statistically, giving enemies -2 to hit is not a good debuff, and neither is getting +2 to your AC a good feat, and neither is slowing people.
    (5) Familiars are fun.
    (6) Summoning is generally underwhelming until paragon level (or level 9, to be exact).
    (7) Orb of Imposition is also underwhelming until paragon level. Staff, Wand, and Tome of Readiness are all solid.
    (8) Almost all of your powers will also hit allies in the area, but with decent party tactics this is only rarely a problem.
    (9) As soon as you can afford them, carry a bagfull of utility orbs and staffs, and get some way of drawing them as a free action.
    (10) Thunderwave is one of the best at-wills in the game, and combos well with the many zone effects wizards get.
    (1) True.
    (2) True.
    (3) True.
    (4) True.
    (5) True.
    (6) True.
    (7) True.
    (8) True.
    (9) True.
    (10) True.

    Wait, you mean that wasn't a true/false quiz? MAN! All that effort wasted!
    Also: MAGIC MISSILE! Especially if you've got a Warlord or another leader class that gives out free basic attacks.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    When is Magic Missile a bad choice? I do so miss the Force Missile Mage.
    Avatar by Qwernt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkpuppy
    All those who dislike philosophy or sociology, kindly [rest of post lost due to semantic corruption. Whether this corruption is purely textual in nature, or more implicative, also depends upon your point of view. ]

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    Also: MAGIC MISSILE! Especially if you've got a Warlord or another leader class that gives out free basic attacks.
    I'm pretty sure the latest eratta changes that.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    (1) True.
    (2) True.
    (3) True.
    (4) True.
    (5) True.
    (6) True.
    (7) True.
    (8) True.
    (9) True.
    (10) True.
    You win a cookie
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    An orc cookie! It has real wizards in it...
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    You win a cookie
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    An orc cookie! It has real wizards in it...
    I lol'd. In my office. That's just not cool.

    @Boci: I said it in another thread, and I'll say it again: Good thing errata and rules updates are optional. Wait...all of the rules are pretty much optional...huh, I never noticed THAT before.
    Last edited by dsmiles; 2010-08-17 at 07:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    "They're more of guidelines than rules really."
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkpuppy
    All those who dislike philosophy or sociology, kindly [rest of post lost due to semantic corruption. Whether this corruption is purely textual in nature, or more implicative, also depends upon your point of view. ]

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    You didn't see what I did there.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Got a 1 on the spot check and went for the obvious quote.
    Avatar by Qwernt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkpuppy
    All those who dislike philosophy or sociology, kindly [rest of post lost due to semantic corruption. Whether this corruption is purely textual in nature, or more implicative, also depends upon your point of view. ]

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Behold! Khrog ver 1.0:
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    ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
    Khrog, level 6
    Orc, Wizard
    Build: Control Wizard
    Arcane Implement Mastery: Tome of Readiness
    Birth - Among Another Race: Among Another Race (Human)
    Background: Birth - Among Another Race, Early Life - Social Outcast, Martial - Local Hero, Recent Life - Explorer of the Ancient (Among Another Race (Human))

    FINAL ABILITY SCORES
    Str 12, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 19, Wis 15, Cha 8.

    STARTING ABILITY SCORES
    Str 10, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 8.


    AC: 17 Fort: 14 Reflex: 17 Will: 17
    HP: 43 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 10

    TRAINED SKILLS
    Arcana +12, Nature +10, Insight +10, History +12, Religion +12, Thievery +10

    UNTRAINED SKILLS
    Acrobatics +3, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +4, Heal +5, Intimidate +2, Perception +5, Stealth +5, Streetwise +2, Athletics +4

    FEATS
    Wizard: Ritual Caster
    Level 1: Enlarge Spell
    Level 2: Arcane Familiar
    Level 4: Initiate of the Faith
    Level 6: Skill Training (Thievery)

    POWERS
    Tome of Readiness: Radiant Pillar
    Wizard at-will 1: Thunderwave
    Wizard at-will 1: Magic Missile
    Wizard encounter 1: Charm of Misplaced Wrath
    Wizard daily 1: Sleep
    Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Grease
    Wizard utility 2: Memory to Mist
    Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Expeditious Retreat
    Wizard encounter 3: Color Spray
    Wizard daily 5: Stinking Cloud
    Wizard daily 5 Spellbook: Bigby's Icy Grasp
    Wizard utility 6: Dimension Door
    Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Invisibility

    ITEMS
    Spellbook, Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing), Adventurer's Kit
    RITUALS
    Unseen Servant, Tenser's Floating Disk, Make Whole, Mindshape Warwing Drake
    ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


    The cleric multiclass is for backstory purposes and the thievery training has to do with the fact that no one in the group has it, which is silly. Over all I think he's pretty solid.

    Comments? Critique? Screams of how woefully awful I've made him?
    If I had a +1 Pan of Frying I could totally do that!

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhh!!! (Scream of woe)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhh!!! (Scream of woe)
    No, no. He's an orc(k).

    It goes waaaaaaaaaagggggghhhhhh!!!
    If I had a +1 Pan of Frying I could totally do that!

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    But I'm not.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakefall View Post
    Comments? Critique? Screams of how woefully awful I've made him?
    Waaagh!

    I would recommend replacing (1) Misplaced Wrath by Grasping Shadows, so that you have an encounter zone power, (2) Dimension Door by Wizard's Escape, which does more-or-less the same but as an interrupt, and (3) Icy Grasp by your pick of Web, Visions of Avarice, Glitterdust, or Summon Imp.

    Depending on your party lineup, Jump may prove more useful than Exp. Retreat; and unless you have a leader capable of granting Ranged Basic Attacks, any area effect at-will is probably better than Magic Missile.

    $.2
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Wow, Kurald, you're giving 20 cents? Nice.

    Also, he must have red pants.
    (Red ones go fasta!)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    Also, he must have red pants.
    (Red ones go fasta!)
    Don't forget the racing stripe.



    Ooh, Ooh, or flames on the side!

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Tomes?

    Well, they don't seem very orky to me, but I guess that's OK. Dual-wielding staves or wands seems much orkier

    Oh! Maybe he dual-wields Tomes and beats up people with them?

    [serious]Do what Kurald says[/serious]
    Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2010-08-17 at 11:46 AM.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Maybe he has a catapult that fires gretchin...I mean goblins. Yeah, goblins, that's what I meant.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Tomes?

    Well, they don't seem very orky to me
    It would be very Wizard-Orky if it was a "Magic for Dummies" book
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    No, no. Not 'Magic for Dummies'. That's not very Orky.

    It would be Orky if the magic tome had a nail in it.

    Also, put it on a chain, and use the buk-wiv-a-nail as a book-nail-flail.

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    As an Orc, you get a Con bonus. I would take advantage of that and make a summoner with Tome of Binding, since they love Con. At your level Staff of Defense might be a bit better, though, since you won't be getting a summon off every fight. It's something to consider anyway. You'd end up with pretty tough summons, what with being an orc and all.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    No, no. Not 'Magic for Dummies'. That's not very Orky.

    It would be Orky if the magic tome had a nail in it.

    Also, put it on a chain, and use the buk-wiv-a-nail as a book-nail-flail.
    I do not like them, Sam-I-Am. I do not like green eggs and ham.
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    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Waaagh!

    I would recommend replacing (1) Misplaced Wrath by Grasping Shadows, so that you have an encounter zone power, (2) Dimension Door by Wizard's Escape, which does more-or-less the same but as an interrupt, and (3) Icy Grasp by your pick of Web, Visions of Avarice, Glitterdust, or Summon Imp.

    Depending on your party lineup, Jump may prove more useful than Exp. Retreat; and unless you have a leader capable of granting Ranged Basic Attacks, any area effect at-will is probably better than Magic Missile.

    $.2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Tomes?
    Shhh.. I still haven't gotten around to buying schtuff yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Also, put it on a chain, and use the buk-wiv-a-nail as a book-nail-flail.
    I will do everything in my power to get me one of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    As an Orc, you get a Con bonus. I would take advantage of that and make a summoner with Tome of Binding, since they love Con. At your level Staff of Defense might be a bit better, though, since you won't be getting a summon off every fight. It's something to consider anyway. You'd end up with pretty tough summons, what with being an orc and all.
    I still haven't heard anything about the summoner wizard... whether it's any good or otherwise. I shall try my google-fu I guess, though it'd be great if someone here would tell me about them *hint hint nudge nudge*.

    Thanks for all the advice guys!
    If I had a +1 Pan of Frying I could totally do that!

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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakefall View Post
    I still haven't heard anything about the summoner wizard... whether it's any good or otherwise. I shall try my google-fu I guess, though it'd be great if someone here would tell me about them *hint hint nudge nudge*.

    Thanks for all the advice guys!
    In my personal experience, summoner wizard is pretty underwhelming until paragon levels. I personally prefer control wizard.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakefall View Post
    I still haven't heard anything about the summoner wizard... whether it's any good or otherwise. I shall try my google-fu I guess, though it'd be great if someone here would tell me about them *hint hint nudge nudge*.

    Thanks for all the advice guys!
    I started plugging your build into CB and I haven't even gotten the powers in and I can tell I like it a lot.

    To do a Summoner right, you need the Demonic Summoning stuff that was in Dragon. I'm with everyone else on it only starting to get good at level 9, but my opinion's by looking at it on sheets, not from playing it.

    I don't see it adding anything particularly great to your build, but would multiclassing Invoker match your character concept better?
    Current Puzzle Quest 2 Build:
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    Lvl 20 Assassin, Freezing Strike/Burning Strike/Stone Strike/Swift Strike/Stealth - Legendary Purple Mana Potion, Legendary Arachna Poison.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Oct 2008
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    Default Re: [4e] Orcish Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by chaotoroboto View Post
    I started plugging your build into CB and I haven't even gotten the powers in and I can tell I like it a lot.

    To do a Summoner right, you need the Demonic Summoning stuff that was in Dragon. I'm with everyone else on it only starting to get good at level 9, but my opinion's by looking at it on sheets, not from playing it.

    I don't see it adding anything particularly great to your build, but would multiclassing Invoker match your character concept better?
    Thanks.

    Hmm... Methinks I do not have this demonic summoning stuff of which you speak. I've actually tried to give the summoning powers a look over and well, yes, the powers are pretty weak until level 9 as everyone says. The dailies in particular are painful to look at.

    If I do go summoner I guess I won't have any actual summoning powers until level 9... which is somewhat silly, but entirely doable.

    Cleric seems a better multiclass option to me than invoker. I don't plan on taking any multiclass powers beyond the initial feat so a once a day heal seems better to me than what the invoker offers.

    Khrog's semi-abridged backstory for those interested:
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    One day a very pregnant and beaten looking orc woman came into town. The guards were so shocked at her state that they didn't kill her on sight as they would most orcs. Instead they took her to the nearest temple, which turned out to be the temple of Ioun. There the woman gave birth, but the effort was too much for her and she passed away, though not before naming her child: Khrog.

    The temple took the child in and raised him in the ways of Ioun. It was eventually discovered, much to everyones surprise, that Khrog had natural talent in the ways of magic, and so he was tutored as a wizard. Inside the temple he was liked well enough and got on with his fellow followers of Ioun. Outside the temple, on the other hand, people tended to look down on him and insult him for his orcish heritage. At least they never went as far as to become violent with him.

    Years past and Khrog enjoyed his life of study and worship, though a small part of him did yearn to see the greter world. To learn of it all that he could.

    One day his town was attacked by a band of marauders. Khrog couldn't stand to see his town, his temple destroyed and so took up his spells and joined the town guard in repelling the invaders. His contribution was great and was noticed. In an instant he became the town hero, and was showered in attention. At first Khrog was overwhelmed and embarrassed, but eventually he grew used to being liked.

    After seeing his prowess the temple of Ioun came to the decision that Khrog would be an excellent field agent, and so they sent him out into the world to find hidden knowledge for Ioun. Khrog would miss the town he could finally call home, but he was eager to explore and so set of with nothing but a backpack full of gear and his trusty rat familiar.
    If I had a +1 Pan of Frying I could totally do that!

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