[3.5] Required Multiclass

[EnnPeeCee]

I've been kicking this idea around for a couple days now, trying to figure out if it would be a good thing or not. Its only conceptual right now, I have no plans of actually using it right now.

I like to think of it as a low-powered variant of Gestalt characters. Players would be required to alternate between two classes, keeping the same sumber of levels in each. I'm not really sure if there is much more to it than that.

I guess the idea spawned from me always wanting to play true multiclassed characters, but knowing that it would be severely inferior in most cases to a single classed character.

I figure you could allow PrCs and some class dips, so long as they were taken instead of levels of the class they would be advancing (for example fighter 10 / wizard 5 / wizard PrC 5). Dual progression PrCs would probably be out by default.

I feel like this would also boost non-casters in power, while reducing casters; something it seems like the game needs.

So anyway, I'm still on the fence as to whether this is a good idea or that I'm just crazy. Thoughts?

[WarKitty]

I think you'd be better off running a quasi-gestalt game. What I've done (I stole it from a thread somewhere, can't find it off the bat) is rank the gestalts. So for every level in a tier one character, you have just that level. Every level in a tier 2 character you gestalt with an NPC class. Every level in a Tier 3 you gestalt with a tier 5. You get the picture, I'll try to find the thread with all the math for you.

[Greenish]

I guess the idea spawned from me always wanting to play true multiclassed characters, but knowing that it would be severely inferior in most cases to a single classed character.

That's only if you always play casters.

[EnnPeeCee]

I think you'd be better off running a quasi-gestalt game. What I've done (I stole it from a thread somewhere, can't find it off the bat) is rank the gestalts. So for every level in a tier one character, you have just that level. Every level in a tier 2 character you gestalt with an NPC class. Every level in a Tier 3 you gestalt with a tier 5. You get the picture, I'll try to find the thread with all the math for you.

Sounds interesting, I'll have to take a look.

That's only if you always play casters.

Well, not necessarily. I seem to keep finding things that I want to multiclass with a Knight, but that class doesn't lend to multiclassing well due to its abilities being based on the class level. But I know what you're saying.

[Fouredged Sword]

Spellcasting would indeed take a hit. A fighter / barbarian would barely notice the change. Rogues would be forced to take two skill based classes or suffer a really hard time keeping up with skill ranks

I could see the generic party from the PhB becoming

Druid/Cleric
Fighter/Barbarian
Monk/Paladin
Rogue/Bard
Wizard/Sorcerer

Other options would be better though. You would have to do something about those feats that stack two difrent classes like swift tracker and the asetic feats. Those already help classes that mix well.

[WarKitty]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=1002.0 There's the link for what I was talking about, it's in the second post.

Edit: Also introduce a feat or two that let you use levels in one class to count for abilities from another class maybe? They'd have to be related classes of course, but you could maybe use fighter levels to power paladin abilities.

[EnnPeeCee]

Spellcasting would indeed take a hit. A fighter / barbarian would barely notice the change. Rogues would be forced to take two skill based classes or suffer a really hard time keeping up with skill ranks

I could see the generic party from the PhB becoming

Druid/Cleric
Fighter/Barbarian
Monk/Paladin
Rogue/Bard
Wizard/Sorcerer

Other options would be better though. You would have to do something about those feats that stack two difrent classes like swift tracker and the asetic feats. Those already help classes that mix well.

Oh yeah, those feats would probably be out by default as well.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=1002.0 There's the link for what I was talking about, it's in the second post.

Edit: Also introduce a feat or two that let you use levels in one class to count for abilities from another class maybe? They'd have to be related classes of course, but you could maybe use fighter levels to power paladin abilities.

Thanks, that does look interesting.

Well, same as the multiclass feats, probably no. I intended this to be a low-power variant. But I'm not really sure.

[Amphetryon]

I could see the generic party from the PhB becoming

Druid/Cleric
Fighter/Barbarian
Monk/Paladin
Rogue/Bard
Wizard/Sorcerer

I could see Druid/Barb, Sorcerer/Paladin, Rogue/Ranger or Rogue/Wizard, Cleric/Monk or Cleric/Fighter being potentially useful choices too, in that environment. Bard could pair with Paladin if CAd is available to make the multiclass viable.

[TechnOkami]

Or to make things even more screwey with the Gestalt, do something like this:

Have a character with a split personality and have each personality be a specific and opposite class. For instance, the first personality is a barbarian while the other is a wizard. Only one class according to which personality is in control of the body could be used at once, and the player has no control over the switch between personalities and classes. To make it a little more interesting, there can be a "trigger" which causes this shift between the two.

[crazedloon]

this doesn't hit spellcasters all that hard (when you really look at it)

worst case scenario they lose 2 levels which can be used to increase BaB/HP (melee type classes) skills (skill based classes) or get a little more casting (full caster)

after all by the way you have listed your "caster build" is

caster1/other class/caster 2/ other class 2 / caster 3 /caster prestige class / and alternate between the PrC and the Caster class from that point on.

If you made PrCs which continue class features (spells being one) than you may get the "nerf" you are looking for on that front and indeed may be more along the lines of a "true multiclass"

[Prime32]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=1002.0 There's the link for what I was talking about, it's in the second post.

That's the old thread.

Here's the newer version: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...php?topic=5293

[WarKitty]

That's the old thread.

Here's the newer version: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...php?topic=5293

Thanks. I was trying to find it for my friend who insists monks are a powerful class.

[Kesnit]

caster1/other class/caster 2/ other class 2 / caster 3 /caster prestige class / and alternate between the PrC and the Caster class from that point on.

According to what the OP wrote, you couldn't do that, since you could only use the caster PrC to replace the base caster levels, not the non-caster ones.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

Sounds like a fun low power game, i'd play it.
I might make some kind of requirement that the 2 classes cant advance the same specialty. . .IE no ranger/scouts(scouting class), rogue/scouts(skirmish/sneak attack), sorcerer/warlocks(blaster), Fighter/barbarian(thog smash) etc.

[EnnPeeCee]

If only I actually played more often than I do, I'd suggest this to my group to try. But alas, I don't want to use up one of my few D&D sessions on an experiment.

But anyway, I'm glad to see this didn't get shot down immediately. I think it needs some work, but seems playable to me.

[Thurbane]

I can see Mystic Theurge (and other Theurge classes - Ultimate Magus, Anima Mage, Eldritch Disciple etc.) as well as Theurge feats (Daring Outlaw et al) being very popular in this type of game.

[Zeta Kai]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=1002.0 There's the link for what I was talking about, it's in the second post.

Edit: Also introduce a feat or two that let you use levels in one class to count for abilities from another class maybe? They'd have to be related classes of course, but you could maybe use fighter levels to power paladin abilities.

I've considered running a variant on this idea:

• Tier 1: Truenamer gestalt only
• Tier 2: Tier 6 gestalt only
• Tier 3: Tier 5 gestalt only
• Tier 4: Tier 4 gestalt only
• Tier 5: Tier 3 gestalt only
• Tier 6: Tier 2 gestalt only
• Truenamer : Tier 1 gestalt only