[3.5]An Undead Cleric?

[Honeko]

So I've been playing around with the idea of an Undead Cleric. As in a cleric who is undead. And not as an NPC but as a PC. And there are a lot of Undead choices.

Right now, I've found that I like the Evolved Lich, the Evolved Nercopolitan, and the Evolved Corpse Spawn. The only problems I see are the LA +5 for the Lich, and the LA +1 for the others.

I guess what I'm asking is what's the most interesting, practical, and fun to play Undead Cleric?

All books are accepted and I know I'm gunna need massive amounts of Wis and Cha. We'll start at ECL 10, and I've GOT to be a Gnome. No way around the Gnome. So I'm thinking Thinker Gnomes from DragonLance may be the way to go... Since they don't get a Con boost, or a Wis hit like other DragonLance Gnomes.

So again... What's the most interesting, practical, and fun to play Undead Cleric?

Thanks in advance.

[Shadowleaf]

Necropolitan is the best choice, seeing as it has no LA.
I'd probably play a Cleric of the Death God/Evil God of Evilness or some such (Vecna, for example). A spellslinging Cloistered Cleric would be pretty sweet - not as powerful as a Wizard or ClerZilla, but still very decent.

[devinkowalczyk]

Evolved undead is awesome and amazing

Mummy is very good for clerics
althought it is at +4

If you can, see if you can spend the money on an Awaken undead scroll and then just play it from that. You are a zombie or skeleton, then add the +1 for evolved undead.

Or

Emancipated spawn is good as well. A lil older, but it allows you to play all undead at the cost of like 4 levels.


Ghost is good for immortality (impossible to kill). But you need to check out libris mortis for that. One of the feats allows you to manipulate objects as a corporeal creature if you have a cha 13

[Shadowleaf]

Ghost is good for immortality (impossible to kill). But you need to check out libris mortis for that. One of the feats allows you to manipulate objects as a corporeal creature if you have a cha 13

Hunter of the Dead (is that the right prestige class?) would like to have a word. Capstone is destroy an Undead. Period. Bye bye Liches, Ghosts and Vampires.

[The Antigamer]

Ghostwalk also expands upon ghosts.

[hamishspence]

Ghostwalk ghosts are rather different from standard ones though- they have the Outsider type rather than the Undead type.

[Sydonai]

Ghostwalk ghosts are rather different from standard ones though- they have the Outsider type rather than the Undead type.

Right, they are more like personified souls/spirits than actual ghosts.

[Zom B]

The good question: does an undead cleric risk turning/rebuking himself?

[Sydonai]

I don't think so, The Dread Necromancer isn't damaged/healed by their Negative Energy Burst and that basically the same concept with a different application.

[DanReiv]

Necropolitan seems the best choice, you only loose a level, not really LA.

The ritual cost is 3k GP, a level as if raised from the dead +1k xp, meaning you can do it early on your career for a low xp cost

[Zom B]

Necropolitan seems the best choice, you only loose a level, not really LA.

The ritual cost is 3k GP, a level as if raised from the dead +1k xp, meaning you can do it early on your career for a low xp cost

At level 3 is best. Lose a level, which takes you from 3000 exp to 2000 exp (halfway through 2nd) and then go down to 1000, which still places you at 2nd level. Any earlier and you vaporize yourself; any later and the loss is >2000 exp.

[zaulsiin]

...The Dread Necromancer isn't damaged/healed by their Negative Energy Burst...

This, I think, is very much up for debate.

[Zom B]

Yeah, everything I'm reading indicates that an undead cleric turns themselves. Since the dread necromancer has to specifically call out their immunity to their own negative energy burst, anyway.

However:

You turn the closest turnable undead first, and you can’t turn undead that are more than 60 feet away or that have total cover relative to you. You don’t need line of sight to a target, but you do need line of effect.

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

I am thinking, however, that since a line of effect has the limitations above, it must begin its line somewhere outside of you (I mean, if it started at the center of your square, you would block it). Therefore, you wouldn't have line of effect to yourself.

EDIT: I may be wrong here.

An evil cleric may also bolster undead creatures against turning in advance. He makes a turning check as if attempting to rebuke the undead, but the Hit Dice result on Table: Turning Undead becomes the undead creatures’ effective Hit Dice as far as turning is concerned (provided the result is higher than the creatures’ actual Hit Dice). The bolstering lasts 10 rounds. An evil undead cleric can bolster himself in this manner.

An evil undead cleric can affect himself, but this is more of a special use of your turning power, kind of like a divine feat.

[Sydonai]

The effect emanates from you, you are the source. I you want to be technical your Holy/Unholy symbol is the source of the effect....

[Zom B]

The effect emanates from you, you are the source. I you want to be technical your Holy/Unholy symbol is the source of the effect....

Yup, you're right:

Any cleric, regardless of alignment, has the power to affect undead creatures by channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol (see Turn or Rebuke Undead).

With the holy symbol being the central point, the undead itself is most definitely affected.

[mobdrazhar]

that's where you just use your turn\rebuke undead for DMM

Problem solved

[Lhurgyof]

So I've been playing around with the idea of an Undead Cleric. As in a cleric who is undead. And not as an NPC but as a PC. And there are a lot of Undead choices.

Right now, I've found that I like the Evolved Lich, the Evolved Nercopolitan, and the Evolved Corpse Spawn. The only problems I see are the LA +5 for the Lich, and the LA +1 for the others.

I guess what I'm asking is what's the most interesting, practical, and fun to play Undead Cleric?

All books are accepted and I know I'm gunna need massive amounts of Wis and Cha. We'll start at ECL 10, and I've GOT to be a Gnome. No way around the Gnome. So I'm thinking Thinker Gnomes from DragonLance may be the way to go... Since they don't get a Con boost, or a Wis hit like other DragonLance Gnomes.

So again... What's the most interesting, practical, and fun to play Undead Cleric?

Thanks in advance.

Hmmm... You could be a bone creature from Book of Vile Darkness... No LA.

[Jallorn]

There's always Walker in the Waste to become a Dry Lich.

[Honeko]

I think the problem of Turning yourself only applies if you are Good-aligned, due to the fact that evil clerics Rebuke not Turn Undead. And I don't think it's possible for you to usurp command from yourself. But that I believe is all up to the DM.

Also, Other than losing a ton of Caster Levels, and gaining a few extra summons/spawns, I don't really see a point of going in Walker in the Wastes. Specially since I'm already losing a few Caster Levels for going into Lasher, As my evil god's favored weapon is the Whip.

As for ghosts, I believe a corporeal creature would be more fun for me, as I tend to play more strong Fighter-type characters.

Bone Creature lacks the Turn Resistance I was looking for. I plan on getting the Improved Turn Resistance feat, but I'd prefer not to be destroyed easily.

As I have it planned out now, as a 9th level Evolved Nercopolitan Gnome Cleric, Spellstitched and CorpseCrafted I have a Turn Resistance of +8, and a DR 5/magic or silver until I hit ECL 13 when it changes to DR 5/magic and silver. Add in Improved Turn Resistance and I'll have a Turn Resistance of +12, which means that only a cleric 12 levels higher than me can even try to turn me, or in other words, I can't be turned, right?

I'll need up to 3 more feats, as my flaws will net me XWP(whip) and WF(whip) to get into lasher, unless my DM will allow the War Domain to give me said feats?

Thanks.

[Coidzor]

That reminds me. Were Huecava updated to 3.5?

Bone Creature lacks the Turn Resistance I was looking for. I plan on getting the Improved Turn Resistance feat, but I'd prefer not to be destroyed easily.

If you're encountering something with 2x your HD in cleric levels, especially after levels 1-3, your DM wants you dead anyway... I mean, 4s versus an 8th level caster is not going to be fun, and it just gets worse after that. And, well, the only defense against Radiant Servants of Pleor/Sun Domain clerics is relying on a sense of fair play in the DM that they won't make something to ruin your day and your day alone. Unless the rest of your party can be inconvenienced by turning above and beyond losing your actions.

With turn resistance +8, clerics 4 levels above you might be able to turn you if they roll well, and with turn resistance +12, that's a cleric 20 with no optimization for turning if he rolls well, lower with optimization for turning. Of course, level 17 characters will still outclass level 13 ones, what with 9th level spells, meaning, well, they've probably got better things to do to you than turn you.

Hmm, I wonder if craft contingent spell can be set off to summon buffer undead closer to the would-be turner in order to use up their HD of turnable undead...

[hamishspence]

That reminds me. Were Huecava updated to 3.5?

There's a free online update for everything in Manual of the Planes, Deities & Demigods, Epic Handbook, MM2, and Fiend Folio (where the Huecava is) on the WoTC site.

Since Fiend Folio's update basically consisted of changes to DR, one or two monsters in it (like the Vorr) still require DM adjucation- maybe to fix the DR it has while in shadow form.

Player's Guide to Faerun web enhancement, also updates all monsters from 3.0 Faerun books.