Best non-druid Divine Dip?

[WarKitty]

I'm looking to build a mystic theurge using alternate spell source to qualify with a single level of divine. Arcane side is going to be bard; this is a quasi-urban campaign. Something that would provide me with some escape abilities would be helpful, especially some way to deal with foes I can't charm myself away from. Recommendations?

P.S. other magic advancing prestige suggestions are taken too, if there's another one I can get into with the alternate spell source trick.

[Malfunctioned]

I'd suggest Archivist, you'll have to boost up your Intelligence but since you're a Bard you can use those for even more skills, they can help with the escaping. You'll also pick up Dark Knowledge which comes in useful. Plus they can cast any Cleric spell in the same manner as a Wizard, that includes the whole scroll scribing and copying so you can pick up a few Druid spells, Ranger spells or almost anything else that you could use.

[Gavinfoxx]

Cloistered Cleric is pretty good, with some good domains!

[WarKitty]

I'd suggest Archivist, you'll have to boost up your Intelligence but since you're a Bard you can use those for even more skills, they can help with the escaping. You'll also pick up Dark Knowledge which comes in useful. Plus they can cast any Cleric spell in the same manner as a Wizard, that includes the whole scroll scribing and copying so you can pick up a few Druid spells, Ranger spells or almost anything else that you could use.

Hmmm maybe. Are there any divine classes that have charisma-based casting? Although I could live with int-based casting.

[Greenish]

Cloistered Cleric is pretty good, with some good domains!

Not to mention Turning Undead.

Hmmm maybe. Are there any divine classes that have charisma-based casting?

Favoured Soul.

[MountainKing]

Cloistered Cleric is pretty good, with some good domains!

I'll second Cloistered Cleric as a tasty class for a 1 level dip. In my experience, with a good DM, having tons of Knowledge skills is always a big boon. However, pumping your Int a little goes a long way with both Cloistered Cleric and Archivist, because both give you lots of skill points, and with the Bard's acrobatics skills, you can get into several tasty Skill Tricks that can sometimes be just as effective at facilitating an escape as an ability that does similar.

EDIT: For Charisma casting, you could also use Shugenja; they're a favorite class of mine, so take that one with a grain of salt.

[WarKitty]

Oooo lots of options. My basic strategy on this character is

(1) try to talk your way out
(2) if that doesn't work, confuse it with illusions
(3) if that fails, run like mad

Isn't there a cleric domain or somesuch that lets you use trapfinding as a rogue? That would be handy, this DM has a tendency to have characters separated from each other.

[Bayar]

Oooo lots of options. My basic strategy on this character is

(1) try to talk your way out
(2) if that doesn't work, confuse it with illusions
(3) if that fails, run like mad

Isn't there a cleric domain or somesuch that lets you use trapfinding as a rogue? That would be handy, this DM has a tendency to have characters separated from each other.

Kobold domain gives trapfinding as a rogue.

[Greenish]

Isn't there a cleric domain or somesuch that lets you use trapfinding as a rogue?

The good news: yes, it exists.

The bad news (well, perhaps): it's from a web enhancement, and it's the kobold domain.

[Edit]: Damn ninjas swordsages spies!

[Volthawk]

Isn't there a cleric domain or somesuch that lets you use trapfinding as a rogue? That would be handy, this DM has a tendency to have characters separated from each other.

Kobold domain.

[WarKitty]

Ok I was thinking of the spell, not the domain. Do you have to have trapfinding to use disable device, or does that rule only go for search?

[Volthawk]

Ok I was thinking of the spell, not the domain. Do you have to have trapfinding to use disable device, or does that rule only go for search?

Trapfinding lets you disable magic traps, and any traps with a DC over 20.

EDIT: Oh, and can work out how traps work if they do well enough.

[Roc Ness]

You could homebrew one. I mean gee, it's just trapfinding. It's not entirely new and it isn't unbalanced compared to some other abilities. Just take the ability word-for-word, and then slap on a spell-level and a duration. Simple.

[WarKitty]

Hmmm...the way I'm reading it, any character can attempt to disable a non-magical trap no matter what the DC. The trapfinding skill allows you to (1) find traps with a DC over 20, (2) disable magic traps, and (3) bypass traps without disarming them. 1 and 2 could be solved by the spell and by dispel magic.

[Curmudgeon]

You could homebrew one. I mean gee, it's just trapfinding. It's not entirely new and it isn't unbalanced compared to some other abilities. Just take the ability word-for-word, and then slap on a spell-level and a duration. Simple.

You mean like the Find Traps spell, in core all along?

[WarKitty]

You mean like the Find Traps spell, in core all along?

I think we're talking about the ability to use disable device now.

[DanReiv]

Bard/Divine Bard ?

/summon phantom steed

edit : trapfinding from list of stuff.

Spoiler

Show

Trapfinding
Barbarian 3, class variant, Dungeonscape, replaces Trap Sense, see text
Rogue 1
Ranger 1, class variant, Dungeonscape, replaces Track
Beguiler 1, Player's Handbook 2
Ninja 1, Complete Adventurer
Scout 1, Complete Adventurer
Spellthief 1, Complete Adventurer
Nightsong Infiltrator 1, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
Geometer 3, ecl 9, Complete Arcane, Traps based on writing only
Temple Raider of Olidammara 1, ecl 6, Complete Divine
Stoneblessed(Dwarf) 3, ecl 5, Races of Stone, stone traps only
Stonedeath Assassin 1, ecl 6, Races of Stone
Artificer 1, Eberron Campaign Setting, disable traps
Silverkey 1, ecl 4, Eberron: Dragonmarked, called "wardsense", works at range, see text
Factotum 1, Dungeonscape
Disciple of Dispater 2, ecl 8, Book of Vile Darkness, metal only
Kobold domain, Races of the Dragon, web enhancement
Theft Gloves, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Hoardstealer 1, ecl 6, Draconomicon

special mention
Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment), feat, Planar Handbook, gain the ability of a chosen doman (pick Kobold, see above)
Trap Sensitivity, feat, Dungeonscape, do not have to search for traps actively, see text

So Kobold Domain if possible, if not open least chakra/shape soulmeld (theft gloves) feats.

[WarKitty]

Bard/Divine Bard ?

/summon phantom steed

That is....sort of redundant.

[Morquard]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something but how do you want to reach the prereqs for Mystic Theurge with just a single level of Bard and a single level of a divine class?

[Lord Loss]

He never said a single level of bard. Although qualifying with a single level of divine spells make take a certain amount of gouda...

[WarKitty]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something but how do you want to reach the prereqs for Mystic Theurge with just a single level of Bard and a single level of a divine class?

You're misreading the original entry. Take bard up to level 4. Take a single level dip in a divine class. Use alternate spell source to have bard spells count as divine.

And yeah it's a bit cheesy, but who cares? I'm giving up skill points and class features for extra spellcasting. I at least get to hold my own as a caster this way.

[Bayar]

Bard/Divine Bard ?

You cannot take multiple variants of the same class in the same build.

[realbombchu]

If you just want to hold your own as a caster, forget Theurge and choose a Sublime Chord build (Complete Arcane). It chooses some skills for you, but you get 9th level spells that I think are Charisma-based out of the deal. Just give it some thought.

[WarKitty]

If you just want to hold your own as a caster, forget Theurge and choose a Sublime Chord build (Complete Arcane). It chooses some skills for you, but you get 9th level spells that I think are Charisma-based out of the deal. Just give it some thought.

I want the Mystic Theurge flavor of having arcane and divine spells both available. The character really is all about blending arcane training and divine casting.

[realbombchu]

May I also suggest Fochlucan Lyrist (Complete Adventurer)? It's kind of a bard/druid combo that continues both spell progressions and has great skills, saves, and a fighter's base attack bonus. Plus, you'll get trapfinding, can wear metal armor, and your bardic music and knowledge advance.

[WarKitty]

May I also suggest Fochlucan Lyrist (Complete Adventurer)? It's kind of a bard/druid combo that continues both spell progressions and has great skills, saves, and a fighter's base attack bonus. Plus, you'll get trapfinding, can wear metal armor, and your bardic music and knowledge advance.

Unfortunately still doesn't really fit the character. This is a bit of a tough situation. We're converting pre-established characters made under a homebrew system into 3.5. This particular character was a bardess early in life and later acquired spiritual training and learned to combine the two. Character is very specifically not a melee combatant but is very good at mind-affecting magic as well as natural persuasion.

[realbombchu]

What about using Beguiler (Player's Handbook 2) instead of Bard. Better spells with a mind-affecting focus, requires some Charisma, but is a devoted Intelligence-based caster with built-in trapfinding and 9th-level spells. It has some trouble-maker flavor too. I think it might fit your concept better. Combine with Cloistered Cleric for an acceptable Theurge within your concept. Or use a standard cleric with domains that grant class skills.

[WarKitty]

What about using Beguiler (Player's Handbook 2) instead of Bard. Better spells with a mind-affecting focus, requires some Charisma, but is a devoted Intelligence-based caster with built-in trapfinding and 9th-level spells. It has some trouble-maker flavor too. I think it might fit your concept better. Combine with Cloistered Cleric for an acceptable Theurge within your concept. Or use a standard cleric with domains that grant class skills.

Maybe. I'd have to take a look. Don't know how much of the "trouble-maker" flavor is actually built in, or if it could be refluffed away.

The character as written previously:

Daughter of a noble family, had some innate magical talent. Had training in music, dance, etc., as befitting a noble daughter, and learned to channel her talent through those. Entered a temple at 15 after a civil war, renouncing her claim to titles in the process. While in the temple she learned the application of healing power, along with a new appreciation of those of lower social station. Currently is employed as a courtesan; provides healing services at one of the local hospitals in her spare time.

[TooManyBadgers]

You cannot take multiple variants of the same class in the same build.

From the srd:

Multiclassing And Variant Classes

Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).

Not that it's necessarily a good idea.

[Greenish]

Daughter of a noble family, had some innate magical talent. Had training in music, dance, etc., as befitting a noble daughter, and learned to channel her talent through those. Entered a temple at 15 after a civil war, renouncing her claim to titles in the process. While in the temple she learned the application of healing power, along with a new appreciation of those of lower social station. Currently is employed as a courtesan; provides healing services at one of the local hospitals in her spare time.

Hmm, a bard1/cloistered cleric with the Hymnist feat from DR325 (makes Perform always be class skill & wis bonus to perform checks), domains knowledge(from cloistered), community and charm, spontaneous domain casting for the latter. Your arcane casting won't be a big thing though.