Double Iaijutsu? 3.5

[Talon Sky]

Last night, one of my players (a Samurai/Iaijutsu Master with insane ranks in Iaijutsu Focus) wanted to know if it was possible to do a Double Iaijutsu....that is, attack-drawing two katana, one in each hand, at the same time. At the time, I ruled no, but told him it was because if the technique is possible, it's beyond his capability to learn without a master.

Now, he wants to quest for a master, and I'm not even sure if it's possible ;p

So that's my question to you, Playground: by the actual D&D ruleset, is a double Iaijutsu possible? Even if it's not, would you allow it simply for the rule of cool? How would you handle this?

[Reynard]

Homebrew a feat?

[dsmiles]

IIRC, OA says (in more words), "no."

However, via RoC (Rule of Cool), I would say, "yes," provided that he complete a solo quest for a master and spend a large amount of in game time (provided on off-gaming-days during pc downtime) mastering this technique. Essentially, homebrew a feat, and make him quest to learn it.

[Greenish]

If he has quickdraw and two attacks (say, BAB 6+ or haste), he can do it.

[Ranos]

If he has quickdraw and two attacks (say, BAB 6+ or haste), he can do it.

Or quickdraw and twf. You'd technically need three katanas for this one if we're going full RAW though. But yeah, it's doable.

[Talon Sky]

Hmm, I think I will homebrew a special feat/quest for him since he does really want it, and almost never causes issues. He rarely even takes a share of the loot, simply expecting the loyalty of the other PCs when crap flies lol.

Maybe one of his ancestors mastered the move and comes to him in spirit-form, saying he has to prove himself....hmm. Okay, thanks Playground! Anyone have any particular interesting quest ideas?

[Greenish]

Or quickdraw and twf. You'd technically need three katanas for this one if we're going full RAW though. But yeah, it's doable.

Why three? If he's standing next to a flat-footed opponent, he can just draw one (free action), attack with it, draw another (free action), attack with it and be done. What's the third one for?

Ah, and technically he could just drop each katana after one hit and draw another for as many attacks as he gets.

[Gryffon]

As an additional note on flavor/setting. If you're using Rokugan, you'd want to look into the Dragon clan, as they're the one's who traditionally use a two-handed fighting style.

[Talon Sky]

Ah, and technically he could just drop each katana after one hit and draw another for as many attacks as he gets.

Oh God, please do not let the player read that ;p

[UglyPanda]

I saw you should just let him do it if he has TWF. No strings attached.

Because the next simplest solution just takes one feat: Quick Draw. He draws the first sword, makes the Iatjutsu Focus check, slashes, draws the second sword, and repeats.

There is no limit to how many Iaijutsu checks you can make in a round. That's why there are Factotum Master Thrower builds.

Edit:
Ninja'd. Meh, my advice still applies.

[Talon Sky]

As an additional note on flavor/setting. If you're using Rokugan, you'd want to look into the Dragon clan, as they're the one's who traditionally use a two-handed fighting style.

We're not. However, I did rule each Rokugani clan as a 'swordstyle', so he did have to pick his style. I think he chose Dragon anyways.

[Greenish]

Oh God, please do not let the player read that ;p

An old favourite is the Efficient Quiver filled with (Fleshgrinding optional) katanas.

[Ranos]

Why three? If he's standing next to a flat-footed opponent, he can just draw one (free action), attack with it, draw another (free action), attack with it and be done. What's the third one for?

Ah, and technically he could just drop each katana after one hit and draw another for as many attacks as he gets.

Well, the only way to activate twf is to have two weapons on hand, right ? And Iaijutsu works if you attack right after drawing. So you draw your two katanas, attack with one, drop the other, draw the third, and get your second TWF attack with it. Only way to get it to work without bab+6, I think.

Of course, that's absolutely stupid, and I'd certainly let it work with two katanas, but hey, some DMs go RAW to the point of absurdity.

[Yuki Akuma]

Well, the only way to activate twf is to have two weapons on hand, right ?

No.

Quick Draw lets you draw a weapon as a free action. It doesn't say you have to draw both weapons at the same time if you have TWF.

[Greenish]

Well, the only way to activate twf is to have two weapons on hand, right ?

"If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon."

It doesn't specify when, so you don't have to start the turn with two weapons, as long as you can procure your weaponry from somewhere in time to claim the extra attack, you're entitled to it if you took the penalties.

[Ranos]

Hm. Good to know.

[Lothmar]

If you combine quick draw, and I believe what is it lightning draw then he can do what everyone is talking about of using quickdraw to draw as a free action and attack - but then as part of the same action he resheaths, so he can draw again next round.

[Greenish]

If you combine quick draw, and I believe what is it lightning draw then he can do what everyone is talking about of using quickdraw to draw as a free action and attack - but then as part of the same action he resheaths, so he can draw again next round.

The only RAW legal way to sheathe a weapon as a free action I know is using quickrazors. Where's Lightning Draw from?

[true_shinken]

I find it really difficult to justify dual iaijutsu by the fluff. Iaijutsu relies primarily in the off-hand that holds the sheath and on footwork. To use it with two weapons just seems... weird.
It sure as hell works by RAW, but I'll shut up before someone says to 'refluff iaijutsu to gorgonzola power' anyway.

[Greenish]

I find it really difficult to justify dual iaijutsu by the fluff. Iaijutsu relies primarily in the off-hand that holds the sheath and on footwork.

Magic scabbard and superhuman footwork?

Alternatively, the rule of cool.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

As has already been mentioned, Gnomish Quickrazors are the go-to weapon for getting multiple whacks of Iaijutsu Focus in one round.

[Adumbration]

Now I'm wondering about Gnomish Quick-katanas.

[true_shinken]

Magic scabbard and superhuman footwork?

Alternatively, the rule of cool.

That's my point, it's not cool. I'm a huge fan of iaijutsu as a sword techniques and even the only fictional character I know that really does supernatural crazy things with iaijutsu (Himura Kenshin) still maintains the basis of the technique - thumb, sheath, footwork. He even has a 'dual iaijutsu' of sorts, but he only uses iai on the first strike (or the second, depending on the variation).
So... I find it really silly. Like I find gnome weapon abuse on iai silly. Then again, not even RAW is on my side here.

[Greenish]

That's my point, it's not cool.

That's fully subjective.

[Edit]: It should also be pointed out that D&D iaijutsu isn't exactly the same set of techniques the real thing is. D&D's iaijutsu is stated to be "the technique martial artists use to break stuff", for example.

Real life iaijutsu is closer to the feat Quick Draw, for all I can figure.

[Boci]

That's my point, it's not cool. I'm a huge fan of iaijutsu as a sword techniques and even the only fictional character I know that really does supernatural crazy things with iaijutsu (Himura Kenshin) still maintains the basis of the technique - thumb, sheath, footwork. He even has a 'dual iaijutsu' of sorts, but he only uses iai on the first strike (or the second, depending on the variation).
So... I find it really silly. Like I find gnome weapon abuse on iai silly. Then again, not even RAW is on my side here.

The problem is if you can do extra damage by drawing a weapon, why wouldn't you carry multiple ones and just keep droping and redrawing? A quick razor at least gets rid of that tactic, which I find far more silly.

[2xMachina]

The problem is if you can do extra damage by drawing a weapon, why wouldn't you carry multiple ones and just keep droping and redrawing? A quick razor at least gets rid of that tactic, which I find far more silly.

Magic weapons.

Cause more than 1 is expensive. And Dr/magic is pretty common.

[Boci]

Magic weapons.

Cause more than 1 is expensive. And Dr/magic is pretty common.

Doesn't become a factor until latter in the game, and even at latter levels, having a load of +1 magic weapons is fine. You have extra gp for other items, and the loss of enchantments is made up for by IF extra damage.

[2xMachina]

I don't think the IF damage is better than the enchantments though. Maybe ~ as good. And you're paying more.

[Boci]

I don't think the IF damage is better than the enchantments though. Maybe ~ as good. And you're paying more.

4 +1 weapons cost as much as as a +2 weapon. What would you rather have: 3 extra doeses of IF, or +1 to hit and damage?

[2xMachina]

+1 could be a 1d6 acid or something. And add weapon crystals.