Unseelie Dark Hunter Prestige Class? Any good?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030315a

So, what do you all think? Theres a player in my group, who is a level 5 ranger who would like to take this at level 6. He took the Complete Champion Ranger variant to ditch spells to get more feats, because he figured he'd take this class, and would get magic from it instead of the ranger spellcasting.

My question is if this prestige class is worth taking, or what? My preliminary opinion, is that it gets some cool abilities, but i dont know if its up to par.

Thanks in advance everyone, you lot are always helpful!

[Greenish]

It loses BAB, hitpoints, companion progression and skillpoints compared to ranger for miscellaneous and rather minor abilities, and a few spells from a very limited list. There are a few diamonds on the list too, but overall I'd say it's hardly a step up from even a feat ranger.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

"There are a few diamonds on the list too, but overall I'd say it's hardly a step up from even a feat ranger"

So hardly a step up means... a step down? or maybe a step sideways? or a partial step up? This guy is really intent on playing this, so I want to lay out, very clearly for him, what I feel, and whatever esteemed people on Giant in The Playground say. You is a trusted source! Yay!

But seriously. He really wants to play it, he is playing a Strong Arm Ranger, The DM might let him exchange his animal companion for the Solitary Hunter variant, if he goes this route.

Anything particularly good at all about it? What is particularly bad? And in the end, Is It Worth It?

[Greenish]

I'd say it's a sidestep at best. If he's going with 2-handed weapon style, the limited spellcasting with low CL won't compensate for the overall weaker frame.

I'd almost say he'd be better off a level in wizard and then going Abjurant Champion (C.Mage).

There are also many other PrCs which grant casting. I'll see if I can dig up a list.

[Fax Celestis]

The biggest boon the class gives is all the mount-centric bonuses.

I used it once: I went Ranger 4/Swordsage 2/Unseelie Dark Hunter 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 10 (not exactly in that order, but close).

I also considered a Ranger/Unseelie Dark Hunter/Wild Plains Outrider/Algorondan Griffinrider. A griffin with the Dark Hunter/WPO/Griffinrider bonuses is quite a nice mount.

For a weird take, try Ranger/Unseelie Dark Hunter/Beast Heart Adept, with a griffin or hippogriff or giant eagle as a mount. Maybe Ranger 5, then alternating levels of UDH and BHO until you run out of UDH?

[Greenish]

The biggest boon the class gives is all the mount-centric bonuses.

Eh, maybe I'm missing something, but these "mount-centric bonuses" from the class seem to come down to +30' move speed in eight levels.

[Fax Celestis]

Eh, maybe I'm missing something, but these "mount-centric bonuses" from the class seem to come down to +30' move speed in eight levels.

Hm, I guess so. I forgot that my DM houseruled it to progress Animal Companion/Special Mount.

[TooManyBadgers]

Eh, the class abilities and spells are a step up for a PHB Ranger, but the framework's worse and ASF is obnoxious.

With SpC or Champions of Ruin on the table, it would be a bad tradeoff for a Ranger. Especially if Wild Shape/Sublime Way/Mystic/other variants are also available.

If the alternative is spell-less Ranger levels, I'd take Dark Hunter in a heartbeat. If the alternative is something like Druid, Assassin, Totemist, Warblade, Rogue, Psychic Rogue, Lurk [or most other Ranger-but-better classes], Dark Hunter would be a pretty weak choice.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

yeah.... the mount bonuses arent too great. I liked the fact that you can cast Phantom Steed, and probably get an extra 30 ft on top of the ridiculous fast speed that phantom steed brings to the table.

The best thing about it, is the spellcasting, of course, and after that, the Scent ability, and then Darkvision. Other than that though.... eh? The fast movement is alright too, for out-running the party.... ahem. or scouting. Whatever.

[Greenish]

yeah.... the mount bonuses arent too great. I liked the fact that you can cast Phantom Steed, and probably get an extra 30 ft on top of the ridiculous fast speed that phantom steed brings to the table.

The best thing about it, is the spellcasting, of course, and after that, the Scent ability, and then Darkvision. Other than that though.... eh? The fast movement is alright too, for out-running the party.... ahem. or scouting. Whatever.

What does he want from his character? We can point you (to point him) in the right direction if we know.

It seems he plans a two-hander melee type with some spells to boost himself, or in short, a gish. There are many ways to achieve that, but if he already has 5 levels of ranger it limits the options somewhat.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

yep, power attack, wants to go into this class. seems set on it, even though I've pointed out that its.... lacking. Anything to make a semi-decent build out of it?

[Fax Celestis]

Well, the speed increases are untyped and apply to all modes of movement. If he can fly somehow, then he can be quite a comet. And if he could figure out a way to pick up claw attacks, then he could diving charge for double damage with them.

[TooManyBadgers]

With the speed bonuses and the arcane casting, I really want to cap it with the Battledancer from Oriental Adventures. Maybe with a Dark Nezumi Barbarian/Spell-less (CW) WS Ranger. Because 50 meter standing long jumps and sparkly magic swords are silly and fun.

But a good build? If he dips a level into scout and uses Unseen Seer to advance its casting, it would be fine. Or you could save him the "build" step and just give the Dark hunter SpC support. Wand chambers could do the rest.

[Fax Celestis]

You know what, if he wants a smashy, self-buff character, why not point him at Runescarred Berserker in Unapproachable East instead?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Well, I talked to our player today, and what he really wants, is a Fey-Faerie themed prestige class, hence, the Unseelie Dark Hunter. All of your ideas are good, and i suggested them, but he wants something fey themed. I downloaded the Bastion Press "Faeries" book, but nothing tickled his fancy there, Prestige class wise. So...

A) is there another, similarly themed prestige class (again, Fey, Faerie) that would be a better choice,
-OR-
B) A way to make this PrC better? (better HD, skill points, BAB, etc, or continuation of animal companion) Also, in the Unseelie Dark Hunter link, I noticed a sidebar, that could imply that the Dark Hunter gets an extraordinary mount. (half fiend pegasus, nightmare, half-dragon unicorn, etc)

EDIT: "Or you could save him the "build" step and just give the Dark hunter SpC support. Wand chambers could do the rest." Im confused as to what SpC support is? spellcasting??

thanks for all the suggestions everyone, this is why I post questions here.

[TooManyBadgers]

EDIT: "Or you could save him the "build" step and just give the Dark hunter SpC support. Wand chambers could do the rest." Im confused as to what SpC support is? spellcasting??

The Spell Compendium. It's a book that provides a lot of options to spellcasters, especially Rangers.

Adding some melee-friendly spells to the class list (like Wraithstrike, Rhino's Rush or Lion's Charge) would let him use wands for new, cheap and powerful options which would actually make him better at what he does.

You could also probably bump both the BA and HD up a step and have full Druid-rate Animal Companion progression (or another form of mount with scaling HD), and still not worry about breaking anything.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

"Adding some melee-friendly spells to the class list (like Wraithstrike, Rhino's Rush or Lion's Charge) would let him use wands for new, cheap and powerful options which would actually make him better at what he does.

You could also probably bump both the BA and HD up a step and have full Druid-rate Animal Companion progression (or another form of mount with scaling HD), and still not worry about breaking anything."

Alright, I'll mention that. whether or not the DM will agree, is another matter. it would be easier to convince him if there were errata for it though...

In case that doesnt fly, any other similar prestige classes out there? options are always good, if Plan A fails.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Also, another option might be to allow the Unseelie Dark Hunter to cast in Light armor? I dont know how much of a class changer that really is though, for a prestige class.

[Fax Celestis]

Also, another option might be to allow the Unseelie Dark Hunter to cast in Light armor? I dont know how much of a class changer that really is though, for a prestige class.

Yeah, let it cast in light armor and let it progress animal companion (at the druid rate, not the ranger rate) to make the mount bonuses interesting.

[true_shinken]

Mystic Ranger with Fey Heritage feats could work, I believe.

I once had a player that wanted a 'fey theme' to her character. She was an Elan Soulknife. She just took Nymph's Kiss, I added a few fey-related encounters and she was happy enough with it.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I See... well, as always, thanks for the help everyone. Minds in collaboration are a valuable resource.