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  1. - Top - End - #1

    Default [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

    This thread is the continuation for my other thread
    here since it got too big.

    Introduction
    As you may know, 3.5 allows you to play monsters as PCs, but with a cost: LA and RHD.

    However, most monsters out there weren't designed for player use, and end up with fat LAs to keep the players away from powerfull abilities like greater teleport at will.

    Plus, monsters with higher HD than CR also aren't very usefull for players.

    And then, the players have to deal with many of their monster abilities don't improving with leveling up.

    In this thread, I'll pick up popular monsters and re-design them to be useable by players, so that they can play any monster with CR X by level X. I'll acomplish this by:
    -Adjusting RHD to always match the player's level to don't punish/reward them against level dependant abilities.
    -Reducing huge ability bonus and natural armor.
    -Making monster special abilities level dependant so they keep increasing.
    -Cut down most abuseable abilities to keep the power level in check. No stuff like teleport at will at level 5.

    Since a lot of this classes change your size, I'm posting a table here to show exactly what you get when you change size:

    Monster classes building guidelines.

    Spoiler
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    I heard a lot of people claiming they want to help but they don't get my monster creating process very well. So here are the conventions I use for myself.

    0-Put your monster class into a post of his own, statistics spoilered, spoilered comments below and a non-spoilered picture above everything, monster name in bold and . Put the abilitiy descriptions by order they're gained and their names italized, the monster HD, skills and class features should be bolded (check out the red dragon below) for clarification on that point.

    1-Number of levels of the class=CR of the monster (or CR increase on case of template-classes). This is as simple as it gets. If the monster is epic CR then you can cut it down to 20 levels. If the monster is less than CR 20 and you feel inspired then you can do some extra levels for some kind of "paragon" or "lord" monster with completely custom abilities.

    2-If it's not an undead or construct, then ignore the basic monster saves, skills, proefeciencies and Bab progression. The monster class will have those based on the extra abilities they have. The more and/or better abilities, the worst saves/skills/Bab/proefeciencies the monster should have.

    2a-If it's an undead or construct, no good fort or ref saves, 2+int skill points per level and no class skills. This is for balancing the powerfull traits of those creature types. In adition, constructs get average Bab and bad will saves and undeads get bad Bab and good will saves. That's because that it's easier to buff an undead but there's also several anti-undead spells that target will, and vice-versa.

    3-Monster classes remove any base race advantages at first level. Template classes do not. Take in acount this so 1st level of the monster class can be better than 1st level of most classes because you're sacrificing your race, roughly worth two-three feats.

    4-For Nat armor, base it on Con modifier. The default is Nat armor=Con modifier. Stronger monsters can have something like X+Con modifier (keep X low tough), or half Con modifier. Undeads and constructs should base it on Str. For "smart" or "spellcaster" monsters you may make the Nat armor based on a mental score instead, or replace it by

    5-Ability score increases shouldn't be more than +1 to any score in any level. You may take exceptions to this at 1st level in certain cases. No ability score penalties unless you have a very really good reason.

    5a-Speaking of wich, try to base each monster class in two stats, three at max. Don't go around giving bonus to every one of the six stats, players really don't need it and it clogs up the class. If you feel like a monster should be smart it's preferable to simply give it skill points than Int boosts.

    5b-Extra scores should only be used if the monster is gaining minor abilities or has bad base statistics (low Bab, saves, no proefeciencies, no hands).

    6-Break down the monster abilities into separate groups, figure out the levels on wich it would be fair for them to be available to a player, then distribute them trough the monster levels so you gain something nice at every one.

    6a-Flying should only come at 4th level, unless you're an handless monster whitout ranged attacks whatsoever. Growth can come online as early at level 3, but it's preferable at 4th level or higher.

    6b-Melees deserve nice things. Casters deserve bad things. DR should be equal to half your HD (except for really tough monsters like the iron golem, and even then it should become available at higher level), and SR should be 11+HD, or 10+HD+Ability score for monsters that are really suposed to be anti-casters like the Rakasha.

    7-Make sure that at least half the monster abilities scale with HD. SLAs saves should always be 10+1/2 HD stat and the monster should gain more uses when it gains more HD. Yes, HD, not monster levels.

    7a-Try to put sinergies with other classes, like the ogre mage's ability to gain extra caster level and higher level spells when it. And again make several (but not all) of the abilities scale with HD and not necessarily monster class level (except for the strongest abilities).

    Do not however put synergies with classes not available on the srd.

    7b-However NO AT-WILL SLAs! No it doesn't matter that the warlock has them, because it can only pick from a very limited list. Players don't really need at will spells, and I don't have the time to review every spell out there to decide wich would be ok at-will and wich wouldn't.

    The exception to the above rule it's for epic play. Monsters who reach lv 21 or higher can have at-will SLAs as the power level is considerably increased at that point.

    7c-It's however ok to allow certain SLAs to auto-upgrade to stronger versions when the player reaches a certain HD. The prime example of this is Dispel Magic upgrading to Greater dispel magic at 11 HD, and Summon monster X becoming X+1 every other level. This should only be used for SLAs that become considerably weaker after a certain level. Dispel magic for example is caped at +10 CL so it stops growing after you reach 10 HD.

    8-Compare with base classes. Rogue and barbarian are excellent comparison points, but you can afford to be a little stronger than them.

    8a-Compare with other monsters here of the same type/role. Gloom is the base "roguish" monster for example.

    9-If a certain monster has several versions (like the diferent age categories of each dragon), then it's ok to combine them all on the same class, but try that abilities of each "stage" of the monster are gained at the apropriate level/CR. For example, the dragon classes grow at the levels corresponding at the CRs the. On the other hand, the dragons get their best SLAs pre-epic because they wouldn't be much usefull if only gained at epic levels.

    10-Faster than linear progression. Each levels should give more than the last one, even if just a little.

    10a-Don't be afraid to make custom abilities if the original monster doesn't have enough to fill all levels (check out the giants as the prime example of this)! Keep them creative, in theme for the monster and fun, not necessarily powerfull. One simple idea is to allow the monster to partially ignore immunity to his main combat tactic.

    10b-On the same vein, monsters with really powerfull abilities should receive custom penalties, that are reduced as the character grows. The ghost, being undead and ethereal must carry his body around. The vampire must drink blood to fuel his powers. The Medusa's gaze starts weak and then improves untill it reaces full power.



    FAQ:
    Spoiler
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    No ability penalties?
    Nope.


    Do I need to take all the levels or can I just take what I want and then go to other class?

    Just like a normal class, you can leave a monster class at any level up and then even come back later if you wish. You aren't suposed to mix diferent monster classes togheter however. Do it at your own risk.

    What's this lose all racial bonus thingy?
    Basicaly, these classes count as both initial race and class, so you can't be an human/ogre mage. You're just an ogre mage.

    I want to play a spellcaster monster!
    Monsters that cast as "class X" like the dragon and Rakshasa will stack their spellcasting with the respective classes.

    Other monsters like the mind flayer don't actualy cast as "class X", but if they multiclass to certain caster classes they gain powerfull bonus.

    If you want a dragon that casts as a full sorceror, I point you for the fact that not even WOTC dragons cast as a full sorceror.

    In alternative, take just one level of monster and then go fullcaster. Or polymorph yourself.

    What's the Caster Level for the SLAs?

    Unless otherwise specified, the Caster level for any SLAs is equal to your total HD.




    Growth modifiers

    Spoiler
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    {table=head]Base Size|New Size| AC & Attack Bonuses*|Space*|Reach (Tall/Long)*|Ave. Size Incr.|Ave. Weight Incr.|Grapple Mod.|Hide Mod.
    Fine|Diminutive|-4 (size)|+½’|+0’/+0’|+6”|+1/2 lb.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    Diminutive|Tiny|-2 (size)|+1½’|+0’/+0’|+9”|+5 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    Tiny|Small| -1 (size)|+2½’|+5’/+5’|+18”|+36 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    Small|Medium| -1 (size)|+0’|+0’/+0’|+3’|+240 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    Medium|Large|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+0’|+6’|+2000 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    Large|Huge|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+12’|+8 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    Huge|Gargantuan|-2 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+24’|+80 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    Gargantuan|Colossal|-4 (size)|+10’|+10’/+5’|+48’|+200 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
    [/table]

    No you don't gain extra stats just for growing. It's not even listed on the table. Just to make it clear since every other person asks it.
    Your natural weapons damage increases one die size for each size increase tough.

    Kudos to Zeta Kai for the basis of the above table.

    Red dragon:


    Spoiler
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    HD:d12
    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1 | +1 | +2|+0 |+2 |Red Dragon body, Arcane blood, +1 Str
    2| +2| +3|+0 |+3 | Keen senses, Fire Breath
    3| +3| +3|+1| +3| Blindsense 60 feets, Str+1, Con+1
    4| +4| +4| +1|+4 | Wings
    5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Tail slap, Growth
    6| +6| +5|+2 |+5 | Sugestion, +1 Cha
    7| +7| +5| +2| +5| +1 Str, +1 Con, Firey Arcana
    8| +8| +6| +2| +5| Locate Object, +1 Cha
    9| +9| +6|+3 |+6| +1 str, +1 con, Greed
    10| +10| +7|+3 |+7 | Fire Lord, +1 Cha
    11| +11| +7| +3|+7 | Arcane Skin
    12| +12| +8| +4|+8 | Iron Scales, +1 Str, +1 Con
    13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Growth, crush, Frightfull presence
    14| +14| +9| +4| +9| +1 Str, +1 Con, Hellfire
    15| +15| +9| +5| +9| Burn, +1 Cha
    16| +16| +10| +5| +10| +1 str, +1 con, Firey Arcana
    17| +17| +10| +5|+10 | Revenge, +1 Cha
    18| +18| +11|+6 |+11 | +1 str, +1 con, Find the Path
    19 | +19| +11| +6| +11| Wrath, +1 Str, +1 Cha
    20| +20| +12| +6| +12| Growth, tail sweep, Discern location

    [/TABLE]
    2 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, apraise, intimidate, Knowledge(any), spellcraft.

    Proefeciencies: a red dragon isn't proefecient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons.


    Features:

    Dragon Body:
    The red dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, fire subtype, bite 1d8 damage+Str mod, 2 claws attack for 1d6 +1/2 Str mod damage each and 40 base speed, medium size. The Red dragon has wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now. His claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spellcasting or anything else a human hand could do.

    The red dragon also gets a natural armor bonus of 2+Con modifier. Whenever the red dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.


    The red dragon has immunity to fire, but takes 50% more damage from cold attacks.

    Arcane Blood:
    A red dragon receives spells known and spells per day as a bard of same level, but he casts as a sorceror and takes his spells known from the sorceror/wizard spell list.

    If it multiclasses as a bard it's spellcasting increases as a bard.
    If it multiclasses as a sorceror it counts as already having sorceror casting depending on it's dragon level, as shown on the following table.

    {table]Dragon level | Virtual sorceror casting
    1|-
    2|1
    3|2
    4|3
    5|4
    6|5
    7|6
    8|6
    9|7
    10|8
    11|8
    12|9
    13|10
    14|10
    15|11
    16|12
    17|12
    18|13
    19|13
    20|13
    [/table]

    So for example a dragon 2 who takes a level of sorceror would count as already having 1 level of sorceror and gains the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but not the spell slots and spell knowns from the 1st level of sorceror. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

    A dragon 18 who takes a level of sorceror would count as having 14 levels of sorceror(13+1) and gain the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gains when leveling from level 13 to 14, but not the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gets from level 1 to 13, He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

    His Caster level remains equal to his full HD when multiclassing to sorceror.

    If a dragon takes a casting prc, it may choose to advance his casting as that of a sorceror. So a dragon 10/loremaster 10 would cast as a 18th level sorceror (he would still receive spell slots and spells knowns from a bard 10 from the first 10 dragon levels and then the spell slots and spell knowns from a sorceror 11-18 for the loremaster levels)


    Ability score increase:
    The red dragon ability scores increase by the shown amount.

    {table]Level | Total bonus gained
    1|+1 Str
    3 | +2 Str, +1 Con
    6 | +2 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha
    7 | +3 Str, +2 Con, +1 Cha
    8 | +3 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha
    9 | +4 Str, +3 Con, +2 Cha
    10 | +4 Str, +3 Con, +3 Cha
    12 | +5 Str, +4 Con, +3 Cha
    12 | +6 Str, +5 Con, +3 Cha
    15 | +6 Str, +5 Con, +4 Cha
    16 | +7 Str, +6 Con, +4 Cha
    17 | +7 Str, +6 Con, +5 Cha
    18 | +8 Str, +7 Con, +5 Cha
    19 | +9 Str, +7 Con, +6 Cha

    [/table]
    NOTE:this table presents the TOTAL bonus gained for ease of keeping count! Don't add the values from diferent levels!

    Keen senses:At 2nd level the red dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

    Fire Breath:
    At 2nd level the red dragon can fire a cone of 30 feet dealing 1d6 fire damage/HD with DC ref of 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier for half every 1d4 turns. Cone increases by 5 feets with each extra HD the player takes from here.

    Blindsense:
    as the normal ability, range 60 feets.


    Wings:
    At 4th level the red dragon becomes able to fly at the speed of 10 feets per HD, with poor maneuverability. The maneuverability doesn't increase naturaly, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps(stackable). Each wing can also be now used to deliver a natural atack dealing 1d4+1/2 str mod damage.

    Growth:
    At 5th level the red dragon grows to large size.
    At 13th level the red dragon grows to huge size.
    At 20th level the red dragon grows to gargantuan size.

    His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

    Tail slap:
    The red dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 +1,5 str modifier damage (already taking in acount large size).

    Red dragon SLAs:At 6th level the red dragon can use Sugestion as a SLA 1/day per 3 HD it has.

    At 8th level it can use locate object as a SLA 1/day per 4 HD it has.

    Save DCs are 10+1/2 HD+Cha mod.

    Firey Arcana: At 7th and 16th level the red dragon adds any sorceror/wizard spell with the fire descriptor of a level he can cast to his list of spells known.

    Greed:At 9th level a red dragon can instantly discern the monetary value of any objects in his view. He can also memorize the number and type of each item and notice if anything is missing or added to that group of items with a new glance.

    Fire Lord:
    At 10th level a red dragon casts spells with the [Fire] descriptor at +2 caster level and ignores any limit on caster level on such spells.


    Arcane skin:
    At 11th level the red dragon gains SR equal to his HD+11.

    Iron Scales:
    At 12th level the red dragon gains DR/magic equal to half his HD.

    Crush:
    At 13th level the dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage base, already taking in acount huge size
    Spoiler
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    This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

    A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.

    A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).


    Frightfull presence:
    The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

    Hellfire: At 14th level the red dragon's flame burns hotter than anyone can measure. The red dragon's breath weapon ignores fire resistance from any target equal to his own HD. If a creature is immune to fire, the red dragon's breath weapon still deals damage equal to the red dragon's HD, reflex save for half.

    Burn:At 16th level, as a free action a number of times per day equal to his Cha mod, the Red Dragon can make his breath weapon persist and keep dealing damaging on the same area. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to the dragon's HD, but deals 1 less damage dice for every turn that passes.

    Revenge: At 17th level, whenever the red dragon is damaged or hindered in any way by an oponent, he automatically knows that oponent's location for 1 round. If the red dragon can't actually see this oponent then he still counts as having total concealment against the red dragon.


    Find the path:
    At 18th level the red dragon can now use find the path as a SLA 1/day for each 5HD it has.

    Wrath:
    At 19th level, 1/day the red dragon can enter a state of pure destructive rage as a free action. He gains an enanchment bonus on attack and damage rolls, to Str, Con and Cha equal to 1/3 his HD. This rage lasts 3+(enanched) Con mod rounds, after wich the Red Dragon is exhausted.


    Tail sweep:
    This special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).

    Discern location:the red dragon can now use discern location as a SLA 1/day for each 5HD it has.




    Personal coments:
    Spoiler
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    So this class allows you to play a dragon up to gargantuan size. You can breath, get some SLAs, natural armor, limited but usefull arcane casting, sold skills, fly, some ability score increases, and always have HD equal to your character level. It should be more than able to hold his own in any average/high powered campaign, being a tank, suport arcane caster of Jack of all trades.

    You can also multiclass out at any time, and around half your class abilities will keep increasing, not counting the spellcasting wich can be increased by taking prcs that increase it.

    Troll

    Spoiler
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    HD:d8
    {TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1 | +0 | +2|+0 |+0|Troll body, Str+1, Con+1
    2| +1| +3|+0 |+0 | Regeneration, Str+1, Con+1
    3| +2| +3|+1| +1| Scent, Str+1, Con+1
    4| +3| +4| +1|+1 | Rend, Str+1, Con+1
    5| +3| +4| +1| +1| Growth , Str+1, Con+1

    [/TABLE]
    Skills: 4+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills spot, listen, climb, jump, swim, knowledge(nature, geography, war), handle animal, intimidate, ride, tumble.

    Proefeciencies: all simple and martial weapons and his own natural weapons.

    Features:
    Troll body: the troll loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits, a base speed of 30 feet, two claw attacks and one bite attack dealing 1d4 damage each. He also gains a natural armor bonus equal to his own Con modifier.

    Ability score increase:a troll gains +1 Str and +1 Con for each level in this class.

    Regeneration: Equal to half his HD. Fire and acid deal normal damage to a troll. If a troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

    Scent: a troll gains the scent extraordinary ability.

    Rend:
    If a troll hits with both claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an
    additional 2d6+1,5 Str modifier points of damage.

    Growth:
    The troll grows to large size.His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

    Skraag:
    When taking this class, you may choose to be a skraag, an aquatic troll. In that case at 1st level your base speed is just 20 foot but you gain a swim speed equal to twice your base speed, and your regeneration only works when you're sugmerged in water.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-09-23 at 01:04 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque


    Other monsters already done:
    (this list is always being updated)
    Spoiler
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    Blue Dragon
    Mind Flayer and Minotaur
    Medusa and Choker
    Zelekhunt(inevitable)
    Ogre Mage and Succubus
    Rakshasa and Dragonne
    Red slaad
    Djinni
    Wing Dragon
    Grimlock
    Awakened Skeleton
    Vargouille
    Balor
    Phoenix
    Vasuthant
    pit fiend
    Mummy
    Hound archon
    Centaur
    Gray Jester
    Silver Dragon
    Yuan-ti
    Thri-Kreen
    Gloom
    Erinyes
    Angel(planetar/solar)
    Nixie
    phasm
    Vampire
    Xill(by ScionoftheVoid)
    Lillend
    Ghost
    Aranea
    Dryad-Contributed by Bodez.
    Marilith
    Half-dragon
    Doppelganger
    Ghoul-contributed by CraftY_Cultist.
    Gnoll
    Dryder-by I_Am_An_Undead
    Nymph by Bodez.
    WerewolfBy Crafty_Cultist
    WereBearBy Crafty_Cultist
    EthergauntContributed by I_Am_Undead
    Blink Dogby AustontheGreat1
    Hill giant-by Hyudra
    Gynosphynx-by VoltHawk.
    Lich(template) by Crafty_Cultist
    Nerra(mirror-people) by Draken
    Half-fiend by Crafty_Cultist
    Half-celestial by Crafty_Cultist
    Firbolg
    Pixie by Aranii
    Stone giantby Hyudra
    Angel of Decayby Draken
    Frost giantby Hyudra
    Beholderby AustontheGreat1
    Slaadby Trenelus
    Redcap by Draken
    Pyroclastic dragon contributed by Kyubi
    Entomberby Gorgondantess
    Ogreby Hyudra
    Half-Illithidby Crafty Cultist
    Kaortiby Crafty Cultist
    Harpy[/list]by Hyudra
    Brain in a jar by Draken
    Reth Dekalaby Gorgondantess
    Winter Wolf by Frog Dragon
    ScorpionFolk by Frog Dragon
    Mephitby Hyudra
    Spellwarped creature(prc) contributed by Frog Dragon
    Half-troll by flabort
    Entropic Reaper by Crafty_Cultist
    Silthilarby AustonTheGreat1
    Zernby AustontheGreat1
    Annis Hag by Hyudra
    Purple dragon
    Fire giant by Hyudra
    Hook Horrorby Frog Dragon
    Air elementalby AustontheGreat1
    Achaieraiby Gorgondantess
    Vrockby Gorgondantess
    Force Golemby Gorgodantress
    Iron Golemby Gorgodantress
    Planetouchedby Gorgodantress
    Marrutactby Gorgodantress
    Ulitharid(prc)
    Impby Hyudra
    Mezzolothby Frog Dragon
    Nycalothby Frog Dragon
    Leonal and Bralaniby BelGareth
    Kuo-Toaby Hyudra
    Wyvernby Hyudra
    Reptilians (Lizardfolk and Troglodyte)by Gorgondantess
    Displacer Beastby Hyudra
    Hell Houndby Crafty Cultist
    Griffon-by AustontheGreat1
    Earth Elemental by AustontheGreat1
    Sahuaginby Crafty Cultist
    Monster of Legend(prc)by Hyudra
    Lantern Archonby Volthawk
    Tarrasque
    Anaximby Draken
    White Dragonby un_known
    Green Dragonby un_known
    Fang dragon by unknown
    Half-Golem
    Psionic Mindflayer by Gorgondantress
    Antromorphic animal
    Tengu
    Ghaele Eladrin
    Cornugon (Horned Devil)-by Gorgondantess
    Son/Daughter of silence
    WereSnake and WereRatby ChumpLump
    WereSpiderby ChumpLump
    Abishai-by Gorgondantess
    WereWeasel, WereShark and WereBasby ChumpLump
    Tsochar
    Pseudo-Dragonby Kobold-Bard
    WereRhinoby ChumpLump
    Marraenoloth (boatman of the river Styx)-by Gorgondantess
    Salamander
    Styx Dragoncontributed by Kyuubi.
    Ravidby Kobold-Bard
    Death Drinker
    Fire elementalby AustontheGreat1
    Pegasus and Unicornby FirebirdFlying
    MurderJackContributed by FlickerDart
    Coatlby Kobold-Bard
    Wightby Crafty Cultist
    WereHydracontributed by flabort
    Androsphynx
    Janniby Kobold-Bard
    BugBear by Crafty Cultist
    Rukanyrby Makiru
    Will-O-Wispby Kobold-Bard
    Kythonby Crafty_Cultist
    Spell Weaverby Winter King
    Rakshasa, Naztharunecontributed by Gordondantess
    Duergarby Jallorn
    Kython, Impaler and Slaymasterby Crafty Cultist
    Kython, Slaughterkingby Crafty Cultist
    Aasimar
    Golden Dragon
    Bronze Dragoncontributed by Gordondantess
    Hydra
    Astral Stalker-done by FyreByrd
    Awakened Monstrous Crabby Flabort.
    Guardian(prc)contributed by Stycotl
    Aboleth
    Owlbearby Kobold-Bard
    Dracotaurby monkman
    Gelatinous Cubeby Kobold-Bard
    Treantby Niezck
    Kyton (Chain Devil)by ChumpLump
    Flind gnollcontributed by Gordondantess
    WereLizardby un_known
    Sea Hagby ChumpLump
    Green Hagby ChumpLump
    War Troll (prc)by monkman
    Rust Monsterby Kobold-Bard
    Wild Hunt
    Death Knight(prc)by monkman

    More to come!



    Monsters done by alphabetical order:

    Spoiler
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    Aasimar
    Abishai-by Gorgondantess
    Aboleth
    Achaieraiby Gorgondantess
    Air elementalby AustontheGreat1
    Anaximby Draken
    Androsphynx
    Angel(planetar/solar)
    Angel of Decayby Draken
    Annis Hag by Hyudra
    Antromorphic animal
    Aranea
    Awakened Monstrous Crabby Flabort.
    Awakened Skeleton
    Balor
    Beholderby AustontheGreat1
    Blink Dogby AustontheGreat1
    Blue Dragon
    Brain in a jar by Draken
    Bralani(scroll down a little)by BelGareth
    Bronze Dragoncontributed by Gorgondantess
    BugBear by Crafty Cultist
    Centaur
    Coatlby Kobold-Bard
    Cornugon (Horned Devil)-by Gorgondantess
    Death Drinker
    Death Knight(prc)by monkman
    Djinni
    Displacer Beastby Hyudra
    Doppelganger
    Dracotaurby monkman
    Dryad-Contributed by Bodez.
    Dryder-by I_Am_An_Undead
    Duergarby Jallorn
    Earth Elemental by AustontheGreat1
    Entomberby Gorgondantess
    Entropic Reaper by Crafty_Cultist
    Erinyes
    EthergauntContributed by I_Am_Undead
    Fang dragon by unknown
    Firbolg
    Fire elementalby AustontheGreat1
    Flind gnollcontributed by Gordondantess
    Force Golemby Gorgodantress
    Fire giant by Hyudra
    Frost giantby Hyudra
    Gelatinous Cubeby Kobold-Bard
    Ghaele Eladrin
    Ghost
    Ghoul-contributed by CraftY_Cultist.
    Gloom
    Gnoll
    Golden Dragon
    Gray Jester
    Green Dragonby un_known
    Green Hagby ChumpLump
    Grimlock
    Griffon-by AustontheGreat1
    Guardian(prc)contributed by Stycotl
    Gynosphynx-by VoltHawk.
    Half-celestial by Crafty_Cultist
    Half-dragon
    Half-fiend by Crafty_Cultist
    Half-Illithidby Crafty Cultist
    Half-Golem
    Half-troll by flabort
    Harpy[/list]by Hyudra
    Hell Houndby Crafty Cultist
    Hill giant-by Hyudra
    Hound archon
    Hook Horrorby Frog Dragon
    Hydra
    Impby Hyudra
    Iron Golemby Gorgodantress
    Janniby Kobold-Bard
    Lantern Archonby Volthawk
    Leonalby BelGareth
    Lich(template) by Crafty_Cultist
    Lillend
    Kaortiby Crafty Cultist
    Kuo-Toaby Hyudra
    Kythonby Crafty_Cultist
    Kython, Impaler and Slaymasterby Crafty Cultist
    Kython, Slaughterkingby Crafty Cultist
    Kyton (Chain Devil)by ChumpLump
    Marilith
    Marrutactby Gorgodantress
    Marraenoloth (boatman of the river Styx)-by Gorgondantess
    Medusa and Choker
    Mind Flayer
    Minotaur(scroll down a little)
    Mephitby Hyudra
    Mezzolothby Frog Dragon
    Monster of Legend(prc)by Hyudra
    Mummy
    MurderJackContributed by FlickerDart
    Nerra(mirror-people) by Draken
    Nixie
    Nycalothby Frog Dragon
    Nymph by Bodez.
    Ogre Mage
    Ogreby Hyudra
    Owlbearby Kobold-Bard
    Pegasusby FirebirdFlying
    phasm
    Phoenix
    pit fiend
    Pixie by Aranii
    Planetouchedby Gorgodantress
    Purple dragon
    Pseudo-Dragonby Kobold-Bard
    Psionic Mindflayer by Gorgondantress
    Pyroclastic dragon contributed by Kyuubi
    Rakshasa and Dragonne
    Rakshasa, Naztharunecontributed by Gordondantess
    Ravidby Kobold-Bard
    Red slaad
    Redcap by Draken
    Reptilians (Lizardfolk and Troglodyte)by Gorgondantess
    Reth Dekalaby Gorgondantess
    Rukanyrby Makiru
    Rust Monsterby Kobold-Bard
    Sahuaginby Crafty Cultist
    Salamander
    ScorpionFolk by Frog Dragon
    Sea Hagby ChumpLump
    Silver Dragon
    Silthilarby AustonTheGreat1
    Slaadby Trenelus
    Son/Daughter of silence
    Succubbus (scroll down a little)
    Spellwarped creature(prc) contributed by Frog Dragon
    Spell Weaverby Winter King
    Stone giantby Hyudra
    Styx DragonContributed by Kyuubi
    Tarrasque
    Tengu
    Thri-Kreen
    Treantby Niezck
    Tsochar
    Ulitharid(prc)
    Unicornby FirebirdFlying
    Vampire
    Vargouille
    Vasuthant
    Vrockby Gorgondantess
    War Troll(prc)by monkman
    WereBearBy Crafty_Cultist
    WereHydracontributed by flabort
    WereLizardby un_known
    WereRhinoby ChumpLump
    WereSnake and WereRatby ChumpLump
    WereSpiderby ChumpLump
    WereWeasel, WereShark and WereBasby ChumpLump
    WerewolfBy Crafty_Cultist
    White Dragonby un_known
    Wightby Crafty Cultist
    Wild Hunt
    Will-O-Wispby Kobold-Bard
    Wing Dragon
    Winter Wolf by Frog Dragon
    Wyvernby Hyudra
    Xill(by ScionoftheVoid)
    Yuan-ti
    Zelekhut(inevitable)
    Zernby AustontheGreat1


    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-09-26 at 04:56 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Waiting list:

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]Monster Requested|Requested by
    Deathdrinker (MM4) | Dante & Vergil
    Salamander | Darkkwalker
    Androsphynx | Darkkwalker
    Styx Dragon (Dr) | Kyuubi
    Concordant Killer (MM4) | Dire Weasel
    Etherguants (FF) | Geiger Counter
    Yuan-Ti Anathema | Quirp
    Giants | Ralasha
    Lycanthropes | Bodez
    more Slaads | Trenelus
    Ghaele Eladrin | Eldariel
    Howler | DaHamr
    Black Dragon | Dannan-Kun[/table]

    More Slaad
    Platinum dragons
    Dragon turtle
    Bulette
    Pegasus
    Deathdrinker
    Androsphynx
    one request for somebody to have Oslecamo's children
    Concordant killer
    Ghaele
    Petal
    All Monster manual dragons
    boneclaw
    deathknight
    wraith
    Wight
    Leshay
    Sisters/daughters of silence from Lord Gareth
    Tsochari
    Aboleths
    Rakshasa Nazrathune (MM3)
    bodak
    movanic deva
    clusterfang/deepspawn monsters of faerun
    Clawfoot (Ebberon campaign setting)
    Joystealer (MM4)
    Ruin chanter (MM5)
    Glaistig(MM3)
    Frostwind virago(MM5)
    Arrow demon
    Astral stalker
    Need a picture for the murderJack (Post 399)
    Gelatinous cube
    mimic
    Inevitable
    More “Half” templates
    more undead
    The Werehydra
    devils (bone, chain, barbed, lords of the fourth, ninth, first and eighth in that order
    Kolyaruts
    Uvuudaum (ELH)
    War troll
    Curst (template)
    Atropal



    I'll be taking requests from anyone who wants me to turn other monsters into playable classes.As a rule of thumb, I'll be doing them by order of income.

    All criticism apreciated, as long as it is detailed. If you don't like something, please point out what it is.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-27 at 03:16 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Reserved just in case.

  5. - Top - End - #5

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Continuation of discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Actually, I'm basing it off of the Planescape Campaign Setting from AD&D, which is an excellent book. It's virtually identical there.
    Even worst, there wasn't CR back then and the DM could just eyeball if an ecounter was apropriate or no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Mainly because of this picture. Seriously, that is an awesome picture.
    He's using the produce flame just for creepy effect, nothing in the mechanics or fluff states

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Now: Why not at will produce flame? Give me a logical argument from a purely mechanical standpoint.
    It's one of the basic crunch rules from this thread and should not be broken unless there's a really good reason for that. The boatman doesn't need produce flame at will. Point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Also: scaring people is all fine and dandy, but what happens when he meets an undead/construct/ooze/something with otherwise immunity to mind-affecting/something with otherwise immunity to fear/something with a mind blank on?
    What would happen if your boatman found something with some kind of decent fire resistance? Ah, yes, you would give him ability to bypass it. We've already done several monsters able to pierce immunities to their special powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    I wasn't thinking of "kill it with fire", I was thinking "channeling the power of the river styx", which a Marraenoloth is closely tied to, and just synergizing that with his produce flame.
    The river Styx is made of water. Water is the oposite of fire. Channeling water to power up fire does not compute. Channeling water to power up fear does compute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Although, what would work is just tying it onto touch attacks so he could use it with poison as well.
    A somewhat better idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Hmmm... well, I'll certainly give him something along the lines of what I gave the Cornugon.
    The horned devil summoning is plain weak unless you use it to get a SLA spammer for support, but I didn't complain about it because the horned devil can hold his own in combat. The boatman of the river Styx however won't be a melee powerhouse so he has the right to summon proper meatshields.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Yeah, I'll be giving him plane shift- probably something like low daily uses, and it doesn't expend a use if he's plane shifting to the gray wastes. And teleport really covers the whole "body of water" thing... I'll just include a clause that he can teleport his skiff & all the passengers on it.
    Also, that would make a pretty nifty combat ability, as he could just plane shift enemies to the gray wastes.
    Work on that, or I'll do it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Aaaaanyways... so how 'bout that Cornugon?
    It still has four natural attacks at 1st level for no good reason when pretty much every other monster on this thread gets his full allotment of natural attacks as it levels up.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-24 at 04:25 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Well, since you mention that list is sort of out of date. Here is the link to the list Kyuubi made a bit ago. It isn't complete but only 500 posts short.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...st#post9122319

    Well, I messed that up. It is actually a few posts down from there, that is when he said he would do it. So here is his list he had made
    Spoiler
    Show

    More Slaad
    Platinum dragons
    Dragon turtle
    Bulette
    Pegasus
    Deathdrinker
    Androsphynx
    Drider
    one request for somebody to have Oslecamo's children
    Concordant killer
    bralani
    Ghaele
    Petal
    All Monster manual dragons
    boneclaw
    deathknight
    wraith
    Tarrasque
    Wight
    Leshay
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...94&postcount=9
    Tsochari
    Aboleths
    Rakshasa Nazrathune (MM3)
    bodak
    movanic deva
    clusterfang/deepspawn monsters of faerun
    Clawfoot (Ebberon campaign setting)
    Joystealer (MM4)
    Ruin chanter (MM5)
    Glaistig(MM3)
    Frostwind virago(MM5)
    Arrow demon
    Astral stalker
    fang dragon
    TOB Rakshasa
    Need a picture for the murderJack (Post 399)
    Gelatinous cube
    mimic
    beholder
    Inevitable
    More “Half” templates
    more undead
    The Werehydra isn't in the OP
    devils (bone, chain, barbed, lords of the fourth, ninth, first and eighth in that order
    Kolyaruts
    Uvuudaum (ELH)
    War troll
    Curst (template)
    Atropal
    Last edited by mrcarter11; 2010-08-24 at 04:50 AM.
    DnD Me
    Spoiler
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    Neutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
    Ability Scores:
    Strength-13
    Dexterity-12
    Constitution-12
    Intelligence-15
    Wisdom-11
    Charisma-13

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Roc Ness's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    That list is amusing.

    Pokedex #999: Roc Ness
    Avvie by Serpentine.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    flabort's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    He said he quit partway through, though, which is a bit of a shame.
    Demilich avatar by Smuchmuch. Thank you VERY much!

    Extended Signature
    Awright, Supagoof, that's just awesome. Thanks!
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    Infernal avatar by Savana. Thanks!

    Nude version by SmuchMuch.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Mystic Muse's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    He said he quit partway through, though, which is a bit of a shame.
    I'll get it done later. About now I have a few slightly more important things to do.
    Avatar by the wonderful BeckyPages. My OC Curtain Call.

    My Twitter account, where I will mainly post images of minis I've painted.

  10. - Top - End - #10

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Ghaele Eladrin


    Spoiler
    Show

    HD:d8
    {table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
    1|+ 1|+ 0|+0 | +2 |Eladrin body, Heaven soul, Divine miracle (color spray and dancing lights), +1 Str
    2|+2 |+ 0|+0 | +3 |Eladrin, Divine skin, +1 Str
    3|+ 3|+ 1|+ 1| +3 |Detect toughts, disguise self, +1 Cha
    4|+ 4|+ 1|+1 | +4 |Gaze, +1 Str
    5|+ 5|+ 1|+ 1| +4 |Lesser Protective aura, Tongues, +1 Cha
    6|+ 6|+ 2|+2 | +5 |See invisibility, chain lighting, +10 Speed, +1 Str
    7|+ 7|+ 2|+2 | + 5|Greater protective aura, +1 Cha
    8|+ 8|+ 2|+2 | +6 |Greater invisibility, Major image, +1 Str
    9|+ 9|+ 3|+ 3| +6 |Alternate Form, Light Rays, +1 Str
    10|+10 |+ 3|+3 | +7 |Teleport, Hold Monster
    11|+11| + 3|+ 3| +7 |Prayer Amulet, +1 Str, +1 Cha
    12|+12|+ 4|+4 | +8 |Wall of force, Prismatic Spray, +10 Speed
    13|+13|+ 4|+4 | +8 | Incadescent Weapon, +1 Str, +1 Cha

    [/table]
    Skills:2+int modifier per level, quadruple at 1st level, class skills are Concentration (con), Diplomacy, Heal (wis), Intimidate, Knowledge (any) (int), Listen (wis), Move silently (dex), Spellcraft (int), Spot (wis) and Survival (wis)

    Proefeciencies: Simple weapons, Two martial weapons of it's choice and light rays.

    Features:

    Eladrin Body:
    The ghaele eladrin loses all other racial bonus and gains outsider traits (basicaly and darkvision 60 foot). She is a medium sized outsider with base speed 30 foot and low-light vision.

    At levels 6 and 12 of this class the eladrin's base speed increases by an extra 10 foot.

    Aditionally the ghaele eladrin gains a bonus to nat armor equal to her Con modifier.

    Heaven soul:
    the ghaele eladrin can cast spells as a sorceror, with the following changes:
    Spoiler
    Show

    -It counts as divine spellcasting (so isn't hindered by armor)
    -It learns spells from the cleric list instead of the sorceror/wizard list.
    -It uses Cha for spell DCs and extra spells per day but needs to have a Wis score of 10+spell level to learn/cast a spell of that level.
    -It the ghaele eladrin multiclasses as cleric or favored soul it can choose to keep increasing this kind of spellcasting instead of receiving the normal cleric spellcasting.
    -If the ghaele eladrin picks up a Prc that advances spellcasting it may choose to keep increasing this kind of spellcasting as much levels that Prc gives altough the GE class is tecnically just 13 levels long. So a GE 13/fullcasting prc 5 could reach 9th level spells.


    Divine miracle:
    At the levels in wich a spell name appears the GE can use it a certain number of times per day as SLAs. Save DCs are 10+1/2HD+Cha mod.

    1-Color spray and dancing lights 1/day per HD
    3-Detect toughts and Disguise self 1/day per HD
    5-Tongues, permanent effect
    6-See invisibility, chain lighting 1/day per 2 HD
    8-Greater invisibility(self only) and major image 1/day per 4 HD.
    10-Teleport and hold monster 1/day per 5 HD.
    12-Wall of force and Prismatic spray 1/day per 6 HD.

    A GE 10 that reaches 14 HD has it's teleport SLA upgraded to greater teleport.

    Eladrin:Gains resistance to electrecity and a bonus to saves against petrification equal to it's HD, and resistance to Cold and fire equal to half it's HD.

    Divine skin:
    Gains DR/evil or cold iron equal to half it's HD. At 5 HD this upgrades to DR/evil and cold iron. The GE also gains the good and chaotic subtypes and her attacks count as good and chaotic for purposes of bypassing DR.


    Ability increase:
    The GE gains +1 to Str at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11 and 13 for a total of +7 at 13th level and +1 to Cha at levels 3, 5, 7, 11, 13 for a total of +5 at 13th level.


    Gaze:
    slay evil creatures with less HD than half the GE's own HD, rounded down, range 60 feet, Will DC 10+1/2HD+Cha mod negates. Even if the save succeeds, the creature is affected as though by a fear spell for 1 round. At 6 HD this increases to 1d10 rounds, and every other 6 HD the duration increases by an extra 1d10 rounds.

    Nonevil creatures, and evil creatures with more HD than half the GE's own HD must succeed on a DC 10+1/2HD+Cha mod Will save or suffer the fear effect.

    The GE can only keep her gazer for a number of rounds per day equal to her HDxCha modifier. Starting it is a standard action and ending is a free action. The total use time can be divided between several uses in a single day.

    At 10 HD the gaze can be started as a swift action.


    Lesser Protective Aura:
    Always active, as magic circle against evil, but affects all whitin 20 feets of the angel, and the bonus to AC and saves is +4.

    Greater protective aura:
    Always active, as minor glove of invulnerability, but affects all allies whitin 20 feets of the eladrin.

    Alternate form:
    A ghaele can shift between its humanoid and globe forms as a standard action 1/day per HD. In humanoid form, it cannot fly or use its light rays, but it can use its gaze attack and spell-like abilities, make physical attacks, and cast spells. In globe form, it can fly at a speed of 10 foot per HD (perfect maneuverability), use its light rays, and use spell-like abilities, but it cannot cast spells or use its gaze attack. The globe form is incorporeal, and the ghaele has no Strength score while in that form.

    A ghaele remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does the ghaele revert to any particular form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability, however, reveals both forms simultaneously.

    Light rays:
    A ghaele in globe form can project a light ray with a range of 25 feet per HD dealing 1d12 damage for each 5 HD. This attack overcomes damage reduction of any type and counts as touch attack. The GE can shoot multiple rays as iterative attacks in a fullattack just like with a normal weapon.


    Prayer Amulet:
    The GE takes on an object of her choice in wich she deposits her faith. She can use a weapon for her Prayer Amulet. Using rare incenses, oils and other special substances she can deposit cleric spells from scrolls on her prayer amulet just like a wizard copies scrolls on his spellbook. Only actual cleric spells can be deposited, not special domain spells that normally don't appear on the cleric list.

    In adition, choose one cleric domain. All spells from that domain are miracously deposited on the prayer amulet when this ability is gained.

    When regaining spells, the GE can meditate with her Prayer Amulet to get extra spell knowns for that day. The extra spells must be chosen from the ones deposited on the Prayer Amulet, and the GE can only draw a number of extra spells equal to her Wis modifier in a single day. Those spells vanish from her mind after 24 hours and she must pray again to recover them.

    0th level spells count as 1/2 level for all purposes of this ability.

    A GE can have more than one prayer amulet, as long as she spends the resources to fill them with spells, but only one has her domain spells. If she loses (or sacrifices) the prayer amulet with her domain spells, she can acquire a new domain by praying for 24 hours on front of a new prayer amulet and make offerings worth 4500 GP. The new prayer amulet is then filled with the domain spells. If she later finds her older prayer amulet she can no longer retrieve spells from it.


    Incadescent weapon:
    1/day per HD as a swift action the GE can give any weapon she's wielding an enanchment bonus equal to 1/4 her HD and the holy property for 1 round, making it appear as if covered in pure-white flames.

    If the weapon is her domain prayer amulet, instead this ability lasts for one hour or untill it leaves the GE's possession, wichever comes first. The GE can choose to end this effect on her prayer amulet earlier as another swift action, in wich case she gains an enachment bonus to her strenght score equal to her HD for 1 turn.

    If a GE hits an oponent with an incadescent weapon, that oponent takes a penalty on saves against the GE spells, SLAs and other abilities equal to the enanchment bonus of the weapon for 1 round.


    Comments:
    Spoiler
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    The Ghaele Eladrin is a powerfull gish warrior, with full Bab, limited spontaneous cleric casting and several other goodies.

    It's main features are it's strong gaze attack and a powerfull array of ofensive and support SLAs. It never grows to big size but +7 Str and full Bab plus cleric buff still makes him more than able to lay down the pain. It must turn into a ball for flying wich makes it

    I added the Prayer Amulet at 11th level to let the GE get some extra punch on spell choice. It's limited by Wis (wich isn't your main casting stat) however so you you can never go wild like a rainbow servant. Normal sorcerors would be prcing to something nice to get extra spells earlier anyway.

    Compared to a cleric it has much less spell choice and is MAD. Compared to a sorceror it only gets some of the nice sorcereror tricks and is MAD.

    So if you want to play a celestial wingless warrior-mage the Ghaele Eladrin's for you!
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-24 at 06:25 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    May I humbly request the storm elemental.

  12. - Top - End - #12

    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Image above is a placeholder as the original Ghaele Eladrin image has already been used for the Bralani. Other image sugestions welcome. Remember it must have a "celestial" feel whitout having wings.

    Sorry Gorgondantress but I was dying to see a Ghaele Eladrin done and my inspiration couldn't be quenched!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    I'm sure I'm missing something important, but couldn't you just say it casts as a Favoured Soul of it's level?
    Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
    New law: Obey me or you'll be crushed by a MOUNTAIN.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Mystic Muse's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    I'm sure I'm missing something important, but couldn't you just say it casts as a Favoured Soul of it's level?
    Some people may not have the favored soul mechanics so it's easier to say "Casts as a Sorceror of its level but with the cleric's spell list" than " Look at the favored soul"

    At least, that was the reason given.

    Sidenote. What's the name of a planetouched with a relative who's an inevitable?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-08-24 at 10:59 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Some people may not have the favored soul mechanics so it's easier to say "Casts as a Sorceror of its level but with the cleric's spell list" than " Look at the favored soul"

    At least, that was the reason given.

    Sidenote. What's the name of a planetouched with a relative who's an inevitable?
    Fair enough.

    An according to this they're Mechanatrix (maybe,) (http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/789663).
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    anyone want to do a rukanyr (fiend folio, if i remember right)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl View Post
    anyone want to do a rukanyr (fiend folio, if i remember right)?
    The vaguely Scorpion-like demon thing with three mouths and lotsa spikes?
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Can I persuade one of you noble gentleman to attempt a hezrou class when ye have the time?
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Re: Ghaele Eladrin:
    • Would it not be possible to give the Ghaele Eladrin some flexibility with multiclassing? Say, letting it advance the spellcasting in the same manner as paladin or divine bard or such? Or, and I know this sounds weird, but what if the Ghaele Eladrin wanted to take levels in Favored Soul? It's kind of clumsy when working with the text as written (implying it wouldn't stack).
    • I think it would make more sense to note iterative attacks in the entry, and then specify that it doesn't get iterative attacks via. light ray under 'alternate form'. Especially since the light rays come after 6th level.
    • What's the point of using the capstone ability on the amulet? Longer duration, sure, but what does it do?


    For art, what about this?
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    Themes of 'holy' and 'warrior', no wings.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Re: Ghaele Eladrin:
    • Would it not be possible to give the Ghaele Eladrin some flexibility with multiclassing? Say, letting it advance the spellcasting in the same manner as paladin or divine bard or such? Or, and I know this sounds weird, but what if the Ghaele Eladrin wanted to take levels in Favored Soul? It's kind of clumsy when working with the text as written (implying it wouldn't stack).
    • Well I can say it stacks with favored soul.

      Geting to improve his spellcasting with paladin and divine bard was discussed already with the Tengu, and the conclusion was that it would be kinda OP geting almost fullcasting on classes that have several other features. Not that paladin is OP by any means mind you but then we get weird interactions like battle casting. Plus like half the people out there use alternate paladins.

      Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    • I think it would make more sense to note iterative attacks in the entry, and then specify that it doesn't get iterative attacks via. light ray under 'alternate form'. Especially since the light rays come after 6th level.
    What? I wanted to make it able to have iterative attacks with it's light rays. Do you think it's too powerfull? Or was it so poorly worded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
  21. What's the point of using the capstone ability on the amulet? Longer duration, sure, but what does it do?
You get an almost permanent "free" holy weapon with some free enanchment bonus? Well I'll add a little extra.

Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
For art, what about this?
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Themes of 'holy' and 'warrior', no wings.
Kinda too much armor and too black, but can't be picky. I'll put them side by side.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Seems like the art for a bigger celestial to me. But you're definitely on the right track. Are we avoiding the 'Eladrin sort of look like fae/elves' route?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Well I can say it stacks with favored soul.

    Geting to improve his spellcasting with paladin and divine bard was discussed already with the Tengu, and the conclusion was that it would be kinda OP geting almost fullcasting on classes that have several other features. Not that paladin is OP by any means mind you but then we get weird interactions like battle casting. Plus like half the people out there use alternate paladins.
    Fair enough. I think there's room, at some later date, to make rules that allow for partial progression or fitting such classes into the 'not-quite-a-full-caster' demicasters like Paladin and Bard and such.

    What? I wanted to make it able to have iterative attacks with it's light rays. Do you think it's too powerfull? Or was it so poorly worded?
    No, not at all. If that's the case, though, you should probably adjust the table to include the iterative attacks (ie. +6/+1). My assumption, on looking at the table, was that it got none at all.

    You get an almost permanent "free" holy weapon with some free enanchment bonus? Well I'll add a little extra.
    Well, the issue is that the amulet isn't a weapon, but you're granting it an enhancement bonus and referring to it as though it was a weapon after all. It's just confusing. I'm not sure what the intent was.

    Kinda too much armor and too black, but can't be picky. I'll put them side by side.
    I don't really know Eladrin at all, so can't say much. Was just taking a blind stab at it, given what you'd described.

    As an aside, I've got this picture in my art collection that's pretty much begging for a creature to be attached to:
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    Very 'celestial', but alas, it has wings. Could photoshop them out, but I don't know it fits the Eladrin in the least.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-24 at 04:28 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Fair enough. I think there's room, at some later date, to make rules that allow for partial progression or fitting such classes into the 'not-quite-a-full-caster' demicasters like Paladin and Bard and such.
    Feel free to work on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    No, not at all. If that's the case, though, you should probably adjust the table to include the iterative attacks (ie. +6/+1). My assumption, on looking at the table, was that it got none at all.
    You always get extra attacks for high Bab on manufactured weapons. It's one of the basic rules of the game. I'm just too lazy to write them down, so none of my monsters get them. And for the record neither did you write them down in your giants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Well, the issue is that the amulet isn't a weapon, but you're granting it an enhancement bonus and referring to it as though it was a weapon after all. It's just confusing. I'm not sure what the intent was.
    Oh, in case it wasn't clear, you can turn a weapon into your prayer amulet. Will clarify it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I don't really know Eladrin at all, so can't say much. Was just taking a blind stab at it, given what you'd described.
    The girl on top.

    [/QUOTE]
    So kinda elvish angels/fey warriors. In 4e they became completely elves. But I'm all for going away from that route.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    As an aside, I've got this picture in my art collection that's pretty much begging for a creature to be attached to:
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    Very 'celestial', but alas, it has wings. Could photoshop them out, but I don't know it fits the Eladrin in the least.
    Kinda oo non-human for my taste.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Even worst, there wasn't CR back then and the DM could just eyeball if an ecounter was apropriate or no.
    So? Then I just use the CR in MMII. So the CR's off. Whoopdeedoo.

    It's one of the basic crunch rules from this thread and should not be broken unless there's a really good reason for that. The boatman doesn't need produce flame at will. Point.
    I asked for a mechanical argument; that's not a mechanical argument. Conventions exist to be broken!

    What would happen if your boatman found something with some kind of decent fire resistance? Ah, yes, you would give him ability to bypass it. We've already done several monsters able to pierce immunities to their special powers.
    Actually, I was technically going to let him change it to negative energy damage, as opposed to fire, at will (so as to reflect the wasting nature of the Grey Wastes). Honestly, I have a problem with a class whose only decent combat ability is to scare people.

    The river Styx is made of water. Water is the oposite of fire. Channeling water to power up fire does not compute. Channeling water to power up fear does compute.
    ...I dunno, I wouldn't exactly call that water. It's more like vitriol.
    Okay, fine, so I'll just cut it down to touch attacks.

    The horned devil summoning is plain weak unless you use it to get a SLA spammer for support, but I didn't complain about it because the horned devil can hold his own in combat. The boatman of the river Styx however won't be a melee powerhouse so he has the right to summon proper meatshields.
    I said like the Cornugon summoning, not identical. Of course I'd give it a boost: the Cornugon Summoning was mainly fluff.

    Work on that, or I'll do it myself.
    And yet, it's technically an at-will SLA. Booyah!

    It still has four natural attacks at 1st level for no good reason when pretty much every other monster on this thread gets his full allotment of natural attacks as it levels up.
    Fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Image above is a placeholder as the original Ghaele Eladrin image has already been used for the Bralani. Other image sugestions welcome. Remember it must have a "celestial" feel whitout having wings.

    Sorry Gorgondantress but I was dying to see a Ghaele Eladrin done and my inspiration couldn't be quenched!
    PFFffggaaaaahhhhHHHHH! I WAS JUST FINISHING THAT!

    But, well, both of our classes are essentially nigh identical. Hell, one of the later abilities I was going to give it was to add a domain to its spell list, and another to give any weapon it wields the holy property... so, really, it's all good. Still, I am rather vexed that you disregarded the fact that I said I was going to finish it tomorrow.
    As for the picture: if Diterlizzi's done it, it shall be used.... and yet, for some odd reason, I cannot find the Diterlizzi ghaele. Weird. I know I've used it before...
    EDIT: Aha! Here we go:

    Though it's a tad small...
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-08-24 at 04:52 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    You always get extra attacks for high Bab on manufactured weapons. It's one of the basic rules of the game. I'm just too lazy to write them down, so none of my monsters get them. And for the record neither did you write them down in your giants.
    Thought the modus operandi was to skip listing the iterative attacks for creatures with natural weapons (I've recommended noting the iterative attacks for creatures who didn't have natural weapons but went up to 6th level or higher). Giants have a slam natural attack.

    Oh, in case it wasn't clear, you can turn a weapon into your prayer amulet. Will clarify it.
    Ah, there's the missing piece of the puzzle.

    The girl on top.
    So kinda elvish angels/fey warriors. In 4e they became completely elves. But I'm all for going away from that route.[/quote]

    Gotcha. Nothing in my art folders that approximates that. She is kind of heavy on the armor for a creature with no armor proficiency, gotta say. Glowy pink guy isn't much different in that regard.

    Kinda oo non-human for my taste.
    Figured as much, which is why I didn't submit it sooner.

    Speaking of art, feel free to replace the link for the picture I listed with this, for a more sensible size:
    http://i37.tinypic.com/17sugl.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by GorgonDantess
    EDIT: Aha! Here we go:

    Though it's a tad small...
    A reverse image search doesn't turn up any resizes or better quality clones of that image (only pics with squiggly black lines around the frame). I wouldn't waste time searching.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-24 at 05:02 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    I asked for a mechanical argument; that's not a mechanical argument. Conventions exist to be broken!
    And I exist to fix them here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Actually, I was technically going to let him change it to negative energy damage, as opposed to fire, at will (so as to reflect the wasting nature of the Grey Wastes). Honestly, I have a problem with a class whose only decent combat ability is to scare people.
    Because it's the freaking boatman of the river Styx, not an elite ninja who jumps into the middle of the enemy army and proceeds to beat them to death by dual-wielding his skiff and row at the same time while shooting fire from his mouth. He's suposed to be more of an utility guy, providing support and not actualy dealing the pain himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    And yet, it's technically an at-will SLA. Booyah!
    Very very techincally. Even if you can go to the Grey wastes at will you cannot go out of it at will so you still end up having limited uses. Plus "work on it" includes preventing pratical at-will spam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post

    Though it's a tad small...
    Honestly, between the spikes and all the black that seems much more suited for an evil gal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Thought the modus operandi was to skip listing the iterative attacks for creatures with natural weapons (I've recommended noting the iterative attacks for creatures who didn't have natural weapons but went up to 6th level or higher). Giants have a slam natural attack.
    They're also wielding big weapons. They all have the interest in using iterative attacks. Anyway I never said anything about the monster classes ignoring the basic rules for Bab.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    She is kind of heavy on the armor for a creature with no armor proficiency, gotta say. Glowy pink guy isn't much different in that regard.
    Don't ask. The monster entry doesn't state any worn armor, wich leads to the possibilities off:
    -Disguise self.
    -The armor it's her skin. Truly natural armor.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-24 at 05:57 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Because it's the freaking boatman of the river Styx, not an elite ninja who jumps into the middle of the enemy army and proceeds to beat them to death by dual-wielding his skiff and row at the same time while shooting fire from his mouth. He's suposed to be more of an utility guy, providing support and not actualy dealing the pain himself.
    Now you're just being silly.


    Very very techincally. Even if you can go to the Grey wastes at will you cannot go out of it at will so you still end up having limited uses. Plus "work on it" includes preventing pratical at-will spam.
    'Tis true.

    Okay, so, projected Marraenoloth abilities:
    For core stats, likely d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, good reflex and will, and either 6+int or 8+int skill points.
    Standard SLAs & yugoloth traits
    Improved fear gaze
    Summoning like the Cornugon's (but better).
    Something akin to the planar ally line: I'm thinking no gp or xp cost, maybe just having a specific indebted soul.
    Summoning a skiff with capabilities like a phantom steed that can be plane shifted/teleported, carrying all passengers.
    Plane shift a certain low # of times per day, and plane shifting himself or others to the grey wastes doesn't take a use. Maybe a bonus to DC when going to grey waste.
    Negative energy/wisdom/charisma damage on touch attacks.

    Honestly, between the spikes and all the black that seems much more suited for an evil gal.
    That is the picture for the Ghaele in Planescape Campaign setting, way back in the good ol' AD&D times. It's essentially the first Ghaele. If that's not a Ghaele, I don't know what is.
    Specifically, ghaele are are generally more 'human' than most other outsiders, and are constantly conflicted with doubts, becoming brooding, angsty warriors.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Something akin to the planar ally line: I'm thinking no gp or xp cost, maybe just having a specific indebted soul
    Very specifc please. Planar ally (and planar bidding) are overpowered if not simply broken spells even with their normal costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    That is the picture for the Ghaele in Planescape Campaign setting, way back in the good ol' AD&D times. It's essentially the first Ghaele. If that's not a Ghaele, I don't know what is.
    Specifically, ghaele are are generally more 'human' than most other outsiders, and are constantly conflicted with doubts, becoming brooding, angsty warriors.
    Wow, emo warriors? Things certainly have changed.

    In that case I'll add it.

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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Very specifc please. Planar ally (and planar bidding) are overpowered if not simply broken spells even with their normal costs.
    Well, the preliminary idea is that, at a certain level, you get to choose an outsider that would fall under, say, lesser planar ally. You can then summon them something like... once a week? And give them certain tasks. Some will require gold, but just defending you is free.

    Wow, emo warriors? Things certainly have changed.

    In that case I'll add it.
    Heheh, sortof. They're like emo, and by all appearances they should be emo, but they're not and are actually just really cool. Sortof like The Cure.
    Also, I think we should just choose 1 picture and stick to it. 3 significantly different pictures (especially the anime one) for 1 monster class is just silly.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-08-24 at 10:27 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking reque

    I just thought of a suggestion/request for anyone interested in making it. What about a Werewolf monster class? Seems like it would be much easier to 'multiclass' to Werewolf when a character is bitten then go through all the hoops and balance issues (in respect to the rest of the party) that d20srd.com 's listed method requires.
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