[3.5]Improved monster classes(2.0):adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!

[Kobold-Bard]

Challenge acepted. So it's the tiefling, the chaotic and lawfull one on MM II and wich more again?


I don't. And they've been requested.

A type of Genasi for each Elemental Plane, then maybe one for each Outer Plane/Astral, Ethereal & Shadow if they exist.

[Gorgondantess]

But that defeats the entire point of the planetouched- that it should encompass all planetouched, from aasimar to tieflings to genasi to chaonds to whatever. The psionic illithid was a variant... but what you're doing is essentially eliminating the need for the generic planetouched monster class in the first place. If you're going to do that, just remove it from the thread. I'm honestly serious- if you're going to go to all the work to customize each and every one, then there is no point for a generic.
I might get back into this... but, honestly, a lot of my steam ran out on it.

[Oslecamo]

I'm honestly serious- if you're going to go to all the work to customize each and every one, then there is no point for a generic.

Well, luckily for you, there's a lot more planes than official planetoucheds, and I only intend to take on the last ones. My plan would basically be tackling the ones that actualy have stats and names (tiefling, aasimar, ect, there's like only half a dozen of them), and your generic planetouched is used for all the other planes, and also allows for even more bizzarre stuff like an half-aasimar-half tiefling.

[The Tygre]

A type of Genasi for each Elemental Plane, then maybe one for each Outer Plane/Astral, Ethereal & Shadow if they exist.

Not to mention racial variants; Fey'ri, Tanarruk, etc. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see how each of these turned out as individual classes, though.

[Lord_Gareth]

For all future reference, the Arcadian Avenger (MMV) isn't a Planetouched. They're a full-blown outsider.

Also, requesting the Wild Hunt (MMV).

GROW, BACKLOG! GROW!

[Gorgondantess]

Also, requesting the Wild Hunt (MMV).

Remember how I said I lost all my steam? Well, right now I'm a f*cking teapot, and guess what? I'm ready to have a little paper bag of various dried herbs inserted into me!
*ehem*
Yeah, I call dibs on Master of the Hunt.

[Lord_Gareth]

Remember how I said I lost all my steam? Well, right now I'm a f*cking teapot, and guess what? I'm ready to have a little paper bag of various dried herbs inserted into me!
*ehem*
Yeah, I call dibs on Master of the Hunt.

Good. I hope you do better than that insult to Celtic myth that WotC spat out of whatever hell their alignment system came from.

Also, HUZZAH! My request is being done!

[flabort]

Awakened Monstrous Crab

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Hitdice: d12
{table]Level|BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Crustacean Body, Improved Grab, +1 str, +1 con
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Powerful claws, swim, +1 str, +1 con
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Constrict, growth, +1 str, +1 con[/table]
Skills: 2+int modifier, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Hide, Listen, Spot, Survival, and swim.

Proficiencies: Monstrous Crabs are proficient only with their natural weapons.

Features
Crustacean Body: The Monstrous Crab loses all other racial traits and bonuses and gains vermin traits (Basically darkvision 60 feet). It is a medium sized vermin with a base speed of 40 feet. It has two natural claw attacks dealing 1d6+str mod damage each, and it takes no penalty for attacking with both claws in a full attack.
It does not have hands capable of fine manipulation, and cannot wield a weapon in either set of claws.
It also gains a natural armor bonus equal to 2+con modifier.

Improved Grab: If the monstrous crab hit an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a claw attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Ability score increases: The monstrous crab gains one point of strength and one of Constituction each level.

Powerful Claws: At second level, the monstrous crab's claw attacks do 2 extra damage, or 1.5 times it's strength modifier extra on a successful critical. Additionally, it gains a racial bonus on grapple checks equal to it's HD.

Swim: The monstrous crab gains a swim speed equal to it's HD times 5, although it cannot swim faster than it's land speed. It can breath underwater indefinitely, and does not need to make constitution checks to avoid drowning.

Constrict: With a successful grapple check, a monstrous crab can crush a grabbed opponent, dealing damage equal to it's claw damage. It may constrict each grabbed opponent once per round, including the round it grabs the opponent.

Growth: at third level, a monstrous crab grows to large size, and it's claw damage increases to 1d8. At 10 HD, it gains another size category, and again at 20.

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It's That Damn Crab! Yay!
One of the reasons That Damn Crab is usually considered over powered for it's CR happens to be it's 7 hit dice combined with it's huge con moddifier. that's a lot of hit points, and a third level party isn't getting through that. By making it a class, it loses 4 HD, and a lot of con. So that drops it a lot of hp it would have gotten, so d20 HD it is. It therefore loses 29 hp overall, which is a little more ballanced. since the monster had 66, that leaves it with 37 still, which is going to be hard for the DM to get through.
It gets only half (Con+HD) nat armor, when I wanted to put full (con+HD), which helps a bit more.
Possibly the biggest ballancer, problem with turning it into a class, and turn-off to players looking at it, is that it's mindless. No skill points, no feats, and no class levels except monster levels until you figure out how on earth to gain an intelligence score. The easiest way, of course, is to take all three levels, and then a monster prestige class with an increased intelegence, but that IS sub-optimal. Mwuh hahahahahahahah...!

Changes:
10/09/07
-Yah, should have gone awakened. removed mindless quality, added awakened to the name.
-Added Con per level.
-d12, not d20 HD
10/09/08
-reduced bonus from powerful claws
-remembered to let it breath underwater.

[Gorgondantess]

Monstrous crab...
First of all, scrap mindless. Nobody wants to play mindless, because you don't have a character. This isn't a monster class, this is a monster. Just call it awakened and be done with it.
And while I'm all for going against norm, I'm sure Oslecamo isn't (correct me if I'm wrong, ossie.) d20 HD is pretty silly, and 1/2x(con+HD) isn't the way to do things. Reduce it to d12, give +1 con every level, and maybe give it 2+con natural armor.
Otherwise, looks fine, but a bit bland. Maybe give it a bonus to intimidate for its legendary status- and that's just off the top of my head. Hell, maybe even a fear aura. You have room to get silly here.

[flabort]

Yah, your right. mindless: scrapped.
Awakened: yah, I'll just go with it. didn't want to fall back on that, but meh. what can you do.

Trying to find something to spice it up. not so keen on a fear aura, but trying to find something...

[Oslecamo]

Yah, your right. mindless: scrapped.

Actualy, about that, awakened undead and constructs still retain their immunities. The monstruous crab should too.

Trying to find something to spice it up. not so keen on a fear aura, but trying to find something...

He really doesn't need anything else. Excellent scores, full Bab, scaling growth, stupid grapple bonus, mind affecting immunity, hits damn hard.

If anything I would remove powerfull claws and give it some way of ignoring obstacles, since it's lack of flying and ranged attacks means he's really screwed if he faces anything that can slow it down.

Anyway, shouldn't it be able to breath underwater and ignore underwater penalties and stuff like that?

[Gorgondantess]

Actualy, about that, awakened undead and constructs still retain their immunities. The monstruous crab should too.

Ah, but while constructs & undead have immunity to mind-affecting regardless of mindlessness, vermin have immunity to mind-affecting due to mindlessness. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying it could be construed otherwise.

He really doesn't need anything else. Excellent scores, full Bab, scaling growth, stupid grapple bonus, mind affecting immunity, hits damn hard.

Well, yes, that was said with lack of mind-affecting in mind... however, I'll cite rule 6b, and I'd like to compare it to the tarrasque, which I would say is more powerful, and has more to look forwards to. It's finely balanced as is, true, but I think something like allowing a free demoralization check on a charge wouldn't be out of line. It's just very vanilla- what I like to do with vanilla classes is give it something that doesn't really change the power level, and just makes it more interesting. Just my 2 cents, I understand if you disagree, and I'll not make a thing of it.

[Oslecamo]

Pyroclastic dragon revamp finished, critique would be apreciated

And before you mention it yes, his disentregating breath only affects creatures on the Dracomicon. Full power Disintregate breath is the special trick of Bahamut the Platinium Dragon.

Ah, but while constructs & undead have immunity to mind-affecting regardless of mindlessness, vermin have immunity to mind-affecting due to mindlessness. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying it could be construed otherwise.

Altough there doesn't exist an official awaken Vermin there's the possibility of geting a Vermin companion, in wich case it gains an int score and it doesn't lose his immunity to mind affecting.

Well, yes, that was said with lack of mind-affecting in mind... however, I'll cite rule 6b, and I'd like to compare it to the tarrasque, which I would say is more powerful, and has more to look forwards to.

The current Tarrasque has average Bab, grows later and grapples worst at 3rd level. Plus his growth isn't auto-scaling.

If you mean the later levels of the Tarrasque are stronger then you're right. But you'll need to actualy take those 20 levels to get all the stuff while the damn crab just needs 3.

It's finely balanced as is, true, but I think something like allowing a free demoralization check on a charge wouldn't be out of line. It's just very vanilla- what I like to do with vanilla classes is give it something that doesn't really change the power level, and just makes it more interesting.

Free intimidate would demand the damn crab to spend precious skill points on intimidate, and then it ends up being extra rolls for little effect.

If anything it needs choices, not extra actions. How about shooting bubbles? Kinda of an under used trait of crabs in D&D.

[Mystic Muse]

You need to explain what a partial action is as I don't think that term is ever defined in 3.5

EDIT: it also doesn't have a burrow or Climb speed.

[Oslecamo]

You need to explain what a partial action is as I don't think that term is ever defined in 3.5

It's either a standard or move action, could swear they had kept that from 3.0 but it seems no. Explained now.

EDIT: it also doesn't have a burrow or Climb speed.

Check out the body traits.

[Mystic Muse]

It's either a standard or move action, could swear they had kept that from 3.0 but it seems no. Explained now.



Check out the body traits.

Ah okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

Well, I'd be willing to use it but other people will probably have better criticisms than I can provide. I still prefer being able to use spells.

[Oslecamo]

I still prefer being able to use spells.

I'm sure you do, but that's the true dragons stick, not the planar ones.

Speaking of wich, cleaned up the red dragon a little, added some minor custom abilities to the later levels and made the SLAs auto-scale. If this changes are apreciated I'll give the same treatment to the other True Dragons.

[Gorgondantess]

Speaking of wich, cleaned up the red dragon a little, added some minor custom abilities to the later levels and made the SLAs auto-scale. If this changes are apreciated I'll give the same treatment to the other True Dragons.

...And you were the one who was against adding extra abilities. And yet look what you've done...
Well, I'm not going to cast blame, I'm just glad. Bravo, Oslecamo, bravo! It is immensely appreciated! And it would be even more appreciated if you did it for all the other dragons.

EDIT: Oh, wait- level 7's a dead level. Might want to do something there.

[Oslecamo]

Well after some tought you were right that simply bigger numbers isn't enough, specially at bigger levels. Don't get too used to it however.

Put another firey arcana at 7th level, can't really think of anything else for the red dragon right now.

Well, only a dozen or so more to clean up now.

[Oslecamo]

Fang Dragon

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HD:d12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1 | +2|+0 |+2 | Fang Dragon body, Arcane blood, +1 Con
2| +2| +3|+0 |+3 | Keen senses, Trip, Draining Bite
3| +3| +3|+1| +3 | Detect Magic, Read Magic, Blindsense 60 ft. +1 Str
4| +4| +4| +1|+4 | Wings
5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Sound Imitation, Enanched Damage, +1 Cha
6| +6| +5|+2 |+5 | Growth, Tail Slap, +1 Str
7| +7| +5| +2| +5| Shield, +1 Cha
8| +8| +6| +2| +5| Dispel Magic, +1 Con
9| +9| +6|+3 |+6| Telekinesis,+1 Con, +1 Cha
10| +10| +7|+3 |+7 | Arcane Skin
11| +11| +7| +3|+7 | Iron Scales, +1 Str, +1 Con
12| +12| +8| +4|+8 | Growth, Crush, Frightfull Presence
13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Globe of Invulnerability
14| +14| +9| +4| +9| Fast Healing, +1 Cha
15| +15| +9| +5| +9| Spell Turning, +1 Con, +1 Str
16| +16| +10| +5| +10| Carnivore Speed, +1 Str
17| +17| +10| +5|+10 | Growth,Tail Sweep, +1 Cha
18| +18| +11|+6 |+11 | Draining Body, +1 Con
19| +19| +11| +6| +11| Outburst, +1 Str, +1 Con
20| +20| +12| +6| +12| Shred, +1 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha
[/TABLE]

2 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level.
Class skills: Concentration, Climb, Hide, Spot, Listen, Move Silently, Swim, Intimidate, Knowledge(any), Spellcraft.

Proficiencies: a Fang Dragon isn't proficient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons.

Features:
Fang Dragon Body: The Fang Dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, bite 1d8 damage, 2 claws attack for 1d6 damage each and 40 ft. base Land Speed which increases by 10 ft per 1HD the Fang Dragon has, medium size. The Fang Dragon has wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now. His claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spellcasting or anything else a human hand could do.

The Fang Dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to his Con modifier +2. Whenever the Fang Dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.

The Fang Dragon has no immunities or vulnerabilities.

Arcane Blood: A Fang Dragon receives spells known and spells per day as a bard of same level, but he casts as a sorcerer and takes his spells known from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

If it multi-classes as a bard it's spell casting increases as a bard.
If it multi-classes as a sorcerer it counts as already having sorcerer casting depending on it's dragon level, as shown on the following table.

{table]Dragon level | Virtual sorcerer casting
1|-
2|1
3|2
4|3
5|4
6|5
7|6
8|6
9|7
10|8
11|8
12|9
13|10
14|10
15|11
16|12
17|12
18|13
19|13
20|13
[/table]

So for example a dragon 2 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as already having 1 level of sorcerer and gains the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but not the spell slots and spells known from the 1st level of sorcerer. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

A dragon 18 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as having 14 levels of sorcerer(13+1) and gain the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 13 to 14, but not the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gets from level 1 to 13. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

His Caster level remains equal to his full HD when multiclassing to sorcerer.

If a dragon takes a casting Prestige Class, it may choose to advance his casting as that of a sorcerer. So a Dragon 10/Loremaster 10 would cast as a 18th level sorcerer (he would still receive spell slots and spells known from a bard 10 from the first 10 dragon levels and then the spell slots and spells known from a sorcerer 11-18 for the loremaster levels)


Ability score increase: The Fang Dragon ability scores increase by the shown amount.

{TABLE]Level | Total Bonus Gained
1 | +1 Con
3 | +1 Str , +1 Con
5| +1 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha
6 | +2 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha
7 | +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha
8 | +2 Str, +3 Con, +2 Cha
9 | +2 Str, +4 Con, +3 Cha
10 | +3 Str, +3 Con, +3 Cha
11 | +3 Str, +4 Con, +3 Cha
13 | +3 Str, +4 Con, +3 Cha
15 | +4 Str, +5 Con, +4 Cha
16 | +5 Str, +5 Con, +4 Cha
17 | +5 Str, +5 Con, +5 Cha
18 | +5 Str, +6 Con, +5 Cha
19 | +6 Str, +7 Con, +5 Cha
20 | +7 Str, +8 Con, +6 Cha

[/TABLE]


NOTE: This table presents the TOTAL bonus gained for ease of keeping count! Don't add the values from different levels!

Keen senses: The Fang Dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

Trip (Ex): At 2nd level a fang dragon that hits with a claw or tail attack (when it gains it) can attempt to trip the opponent as a free action (as per page 158 of the D&D 3.5 Player’s Handbook). If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the dragon.

Draining Bite: At 2nd level a Fang Dragon does not have a breath weapon, but its bite drains Constitution if the victim fails a Fortitude save. At level two this bite drains 1d2 Constitution points, Fort save DC of 10+1/2 Dragon Level+ Con Mod negates. The Con Drain keeps increasing with HD.

{table]HD| Con Drain
5| 1d3
8| 1d4
11| 1d6
14| 1d8
17| 2d4
20| 2d6
[/table]

Blindsense: At 3rd level, as the normal ability, range 60 ft.

Fang Dragon SLAs: At 3rd level the Fang dragon can use Detect Magic and Read Magic each 1/day for every HD it has.

Wings: At 4th level the Fang Dragon becomes able to fly at the speed of 10 ft. per HD, with poor maneuverability. The maneuverability doesn't increase naturally, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps (stackable). Each wing can also be now used to deliver a natural attack dealing 1d4 damage.

Enhanced Damage:At 5th level the Fang Dragon is a dangerous weapon, every part of it capable of killing you, such it is that because of how dangerous the dragon is its Natural Weapons damage scales as if it was one size larger then the dragon actually is.

Sound Imitation (Ex): At 5th level a Fang dragon can mimic any voice or sound it has heard, anytime it likes. Listeners must succeed on a Will save (DC Dragons Level + Cha Modifier).

Growth: At 6th level the Fang Dragon grows to Large Size.
At 12th level the Fang Dragon grows to Huge Size.
At 17th level the Fang Dragon grows to Gargantuan Size.

His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but he does not get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Tail slap: The Fang dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 damage(already taking in account large size).

Shield: At 7th level the Fang Dragon can use shield as a SLA 1/day for every 2 HD it has

Dispel Magic: At 8th level the Fang Dragon can use dispel magic as a SLA for every 4 HD it has. At 11 HD this ability upgrades to Greater Dispel Magic SLA.

Telekinesis: At 9th level the Fang Dragon can now use Telekinesis as an SLA 1/day for every 3 HD it has, save DC 10+1/2HD+Cha mod.

Arcane skin:At 10th level the Fang Dragon gains SR equal to his HD+11.

Iron Scales: At 11th level the Fang dragon gains DR/magic equal to half his HD.

Frightful Presence:Gained at 12th level, this ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.


Crush: The dragon can make a crush attack dealing 3d8 damage base, already taking in account huge size and Enhanced damage.

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This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Gargantuan size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.

A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).

Globe invulnerability: At 13th level, SLA as the spell, 1/day for every 4 HD.

Fast Healing: As the standard ability, equal to half the Fang Dragon's HD.

Spell Turning: At 15th level the Fang Dragon can now use Spell Turning as an SLA 1/Day for every 5 HD it has.

Carnivore Speed: At 16th level the Fang dragon gains +10 foot to his base speed, and an extra +10 for every 2 HD gained from here.

In adition, the Fang Dragon can cast one of his SLAs on himself as a swift action when performing a charge.

Tail sweep: At 17th level this special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).


Draining Body: At 18th level select one of the Fang Dragon's natural weapons besides his bite. That weapon now deals Con Drain as his bite. Once made this choice can't be changed.


Outburst1/day, the Fang dragon can go into a rage as a free action in wich it tears even more viciously than normal. It lasts for a number of turns equal to the Fang Dragon's Con modifier, and during it oponents that sucessfully save against his Draining bite/body still take half Con drain.

Shred: At 20th level the fang dragon now ignores immunity to energy drain. If attacking an oponent whitout Con score it deals Cha drain instead.

Comments:

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The Fang Dragon is a more vicious version, growing faster and trading his breath weapon for improved melee capacity. It hits pretty hard in melee and has powerfull abjuration SLAs to get close to pesky spellcasters.

If you want to play a more savage dragon that tears apart his oponents with his limbs, the Fang Dragon's for you.

Done by un_known, some tweaks by me.

[Vauron]

The table for the bite's CON damage seems to be broken.

[Mystic Muse]

(This is a general question, not directed at you Oslecamo. Also not about this thread, just about the way wotc made things)

Why in the nine hells do Fang dragons get Sorceror casting and Planar don't?

[DrWeird]

Because Fang Dragons are 'extremely cool', like something off of a Gwar or Judas Priest album cover, and planar dragons are the illegal immigrant cousins of true dragons.

[Jallorn]

I think I'll take a crack at the Hydra, since there doesn't seem to be one done.

[Oslecamo]

Why in the nine hells do Fang dragons get Sorceror casting and Planar don't?

Well, we had arcane dragons, then psionic dragons, then we got the planar dragons, wich have stronger links to their planes. The Fang Dragon (as well as the shaddow and half the other new ones in Dracomicon) are still material plane dragons.

Of course, Asmodeus, Lord of the Nine Hells may also have something to do with it.

Anyway I consider it a good challenge. Giving them "elemental" abilities that make up for the loss of spellcasting.

Speaking of wich, Blue, Bronze, Green and Golden dragons also updated! Only Silver, Styx and White to go.

[demidracolich]

I just noticed that bronze dragon isn't in the index.

[Jallorn]

Since the Hydra has several different versions, each with a different number of heads, I can see a few ways to deal with it, but I think the simplest would just be to make a different class for different numbers of heads. I will start working on a five headed hydra now.

[Gorgondantess]

Since the Hydra has several different versions, each with a different number of heads, I can see a few ways to deal with it, but I think the simplest would just be to make a different class for different numbers of heads. I will start working on a five headed hydra now.

...Or just give it more heads as you gain levels.

[Jallorn]

You're right, that'll work.

I'm also going to make a two level prestige class that can be taken at any time after first level to make the Hydra Cryo- or Pyro-.

[Gorgondantess]

You're right, that'll work.

I'm also going to make a two level prestige class that can be taken at any time after first level to make the Hydra Cryo- or Pyro-.

Actually, what might be cool is just making it one prestige class, and letting them choose any 1 element to embody (except for sonic, probably, though it'd then only get immunity to sonic, so I suppose that's balanced.)